Jump to content
Online Baptist
  • Welcome Guest

    Tired of all the fighting that goes on in facebook groups? Are you ready for a community where you can talk about things of God and the Bible without getting branded a heretic? Well, we are glad you found us. Why don't you give us a try and see how friendly and different we are. - BroMatt

Miss Daisy

Ifb Is A Cult?

Recommended Posts

Yesterday I googled 'independent, fundamental Baptist women' looking for local seminars or retreat type meetings for women. Wow, was I surprised by the pages of websites describing IFB as a cult who beats their children, treat women like dogs and follow their pastors like a cult leader! There's a lot of sites by former IFB people (supposedly) who were abused and mistreated in their IFB church.  Some sites had to do with the Hyles church specifically. I didn't know we were considered cultish. :grouphug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yesterday I googled 'independent, fundamental Baptist women' looking for local seminars or retreat type meetings for women. Wow, was I surprised by the pages of websites describing IFB as a cult who beats their children, treat women like dogs and follow their pastors like a cult leader! There's a lot of sites by former IFB people (supposedly) who were abused and mistreated in their IFB church.  Some sites had to do with the Hyles church specifically. I didn't know we were considered cultish. :grouphug:

They must be kidding!! Women needing to get away,,,,,,,,,If they need a seminar, let the husbands do it. If they need a retreat, let them retreat to the kitchen!!

Don't they know their place; In the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant :hungry:   What is the world coming to!!

 

Don't they know this is in violation of God's Word. They just don't understand their place....send them over to the Online Baptist forum and heed the advice given for men  who just wants to go down to the fishing hole all by himself.  (Men Need To Take Break, Away From Their Wifes...)

 

I believe the problem can best be shown by the words of the late evangelist, Bro Maze Jackson. 'Most men are so henpecked, they roost at the foot of the bed'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They must be kidding!! Women needing to get away,,,,,,,,,If they need a seminar, let the husbands do it. If they need a retreat, let them retreat to the kitchen!!

Don't they know their place; In the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant :hungry:   What is the world coming to!!

 

Don't they know this is in violation of God's Word. They just don't understand their place....send them over to the Online Baptist forum and heed the advice given for men  who just wants to go down to the fishing hole all by himself.  (Men Need To Take Break, Away From Their Wifes...)

 

I believe the problem can best be shown by the words of the late evangelist, Bro Maze Jackson. 'Most men are so henpecked, they roost at the foot of the bed'.

UPDATE: IF the following documented info from the Online Baptist web site is correct; apparently they do know their place.

 

Mens Forum:  156 Topics with 2,322 Replies

 

Online Baptist Ladies Forum:  0 Topics with 0 Replies.

 

The Kitchen:  304 Topics with 8,109 Replies

 

:knuppel: :knuppel:  :hide:  :tapping: :tapping:

Edited by Bro K

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL - Bro K, I'll guarantee there is more action on the ladies' forum than what you see on that list.  Many of the ladies over there do not post here. And there are many days that no-one posts on the ladies' forum, but it does see action.  I am not sure why it shows 0, although I think BroMatt is working on doing something to merge the ladies' forum to be like the men's on here (ladies have to log in with a password on their forum; while it is OB, it is a separate function, unlike the men's forum here).

 

More men post in the Kitchen forum than women do, too... :bleh:

 

lefton, sadly there are some IFB churches that do tend to be cultish (just like any other groups of believers).  Any time a group of religious people begin to replace scripture with man's traditions and begin to look up to man as they should Christ, that group will begin to manifest as a cult - slowly at first, sometimes, but then stronger and stronger as one.  When man takes on the place of Christ and the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer, he becomes a cult leader.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All religions and denominations are technically cults...

noun

1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
 
What defines a cult in the negative sense that people commonly talking about idiomatically is the controlling extra-biblical authority. That is usually manifested in a particular leader or writing.  Mormons, for example venerate Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon as authorities that supercede the Bible. Catholicism resembles a cult more than the IFB veign of churches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The RCC is a cult. There are IFB churches that have pastors with strong personalities but the members still can bounce him out the front door if they wanted. Try doing that in the Catholic church.

But that can only be done if there are enough people who see it and are willing to do something about it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More men post in the Kitchen forum than women do, too... :bleh:

 

I've been wondering where all the men have gone; guess I'll go fishing by myself.  :clapping: HC: Have a great day!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That doesn't matter. It still can be done. It can't be done in the RCC and any cult for that matter.

It does matter.  It can't be done in an IFB church unless enough people are behind it.  If said IFB church tends to cultishness, the pastor will not be put out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what ASOD means (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that based on church organization/constitutions every IFB church has the contractual abilty to remove or dismiss their pastor(s).  Whether a consensus can be built to do so or not, the potential capability is still there. With the RCC, on the other hand, only a higher ecclesiastic authority (e.g. the bishop or pope) can remove a local priest and the congregation has no say in the matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what ASOD means (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that based on church organization/constitutions every IFB church has the contractual abilty to remove or dismiss their pastor(s).  Whether a consensus can be built to do so or not, the potential capability is still there. With the RCC, on the other hand, only a higher ecclesiastic authority (e.g. the bishop or pope) can remove a local priest and the congregation has no say in the matter.

I'm sure that is what he meant, and I agree with that. But my point is that there are some congregational-style churches that are run as though they are RCC, with a hierarchy authority equivalent to a pope.  SWIM?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure that is what he meant, and I agree with that. But my point is that there are some congregational-style churches that are run as though they are RCC, with a hierarchy authority equivalent to a pope.  SWIM?

 

Certainly, but isn't that more of a leadership problem as opposed to structural?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Certainly, but isn't that more of a leadership problem as opposed to structural?

I believe it may be more of a congregation problem. If the congregation is empowered to select their Pastor; that same power gives them the right to remove the Pastor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it may be more of a congregation problem. If the congregation is empowered to select their Pastor; that same power gives them the right to remove the Pastor.

Right (although there would be a leadership problem if the pastor is more like a pope...).  But, Sword, you're right,  it's definitely not a structural problem.  The result, though, is exactly the same.  So, in reality, what is the true difference? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it may be more of a congregation problem. If the congregation is empowered to select their Pastor; that same power gives them the right to remove the Pastor.

 

I definitely agree, but again I see that as a problem with the people as opposed to the structure. Cultic leadership and practices are kept in place by the rules of the cultic system rather than the consent/will of the people in it. Really I guess it's just a semantic difference. I completely understand the point that people are practicing, or are allowing, RCC-type in a church that is otherwise supposed to be congregational by original organizational structure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't say such a system is a leadership problem or a congregational one; I would say everyone involved is responsible.

 

A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof? Jeremiah 5: 30,31

 

 

These people should have had the faith, courage and fortitude to take a stand against the false prophecies and the overbearing control. And the prophets and priests should have resisted the opportunities and temptation for power and filthy lucre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The closer you walk to Christ the more the world will hate you, & the more trouble 'Old Satan' will give you. The further you walk from Jesus the less 'Old Satan' will trouble you.

 

The world & all the false teaching churches hates those who hold to Jesus' truths. They think love is only shown by accepting them, their teachings, & encouraging them on the path they take.  They feel anyone who reproves them with God's Word hates them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They burn christians, imprison christians, marginalize christians out of jobs, why should hate websites be any surprise? I do believe there are several verses that point to things waxing worse in these last days... Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This accusation was the primary reason that my brother and law and I and a few of our "students" started up "Do Right Christians" after the aftermath of the Jack Schaap ordeal. Although there had already been a number of websites dedicated to slamming the IFB, the Jack Schaap ordeal gave them all a chance to capitalize on the high profile nature of that case which skyrocket the readership of those sites as well as gave birth to some newer sites.

 

What we found in these groups was that most of them themselves were cultish. We documented the occult practices and beliefs of Trisha Lacroix so much that she finally came out of the closet wearing a bikini on a sexual victim advocate page then quit the group and they shut the page down to private membership only. http://dorightchristians.wordpress.com/category/trisha-fundamental-revolution-occult/

 

Almost all of these groups started out as a "safe haven" for so-called "victims", who were mostly disgruntled ex IFB members and VERY FEW actual victims of abuse. Jocelyn Zichterman's "IFB CULT SURIVORS" group started that way, and is now virtually full blown atheist. They not only tell members to NOT talk about Jesus, but encourage discussions about burning Bibles. Then she wrote a book called, "I Fired God".

Darrell Dow, creator of Stuff Fundies LIke has virtually the same atmosphere (documented on the Stuffed Undies Like Section on our website. And then ditto the rest of the "Do Right" groups, made of up mostly ex-IFB and "gay rights" activists.

 

Our website got a huge backlash from liberal media and anti-Baptist websites when we wrote about Why Fundamentalists Don't Listen To Our Critics. which pretty much sums up all the tactics used by the "the IFB is a cult" crowds.

 

Harry Ironside once had a visitor in his church who was an agnostic who challenged him to a debate. Ironside accepted his challenge in front of the church but told the man he would do it on 2 conditions one in which that the agnostic bring with him all the known drunkards, prostitutes, drug addicts and wicked living sinners whose lives have been helped and changed by his unbelief.

 

So while the IFB certainly has its faux pas, it is far from being a cult, and considering the source of the majority of the accusations, its beyond the pot calling the kettle black.

Edited by Dr James Ach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just what constitutes "worse"?

 

There have been many times throughout the past 2,000 years that Christians have been hunted, beat, raped, tortured and killed; sometimes for sport.

 

There have been huge wars with millions dead.

 

There have been vast plagues and pandemics which have decimated millions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just what constitutes "worse"?

 

There have been many times throughout the past 2,000 years that Christians have been hunted, beat, raped, tortured and killed; sometimes for sport.

 

There have been huge wars with millions dead.

 

There have been vast plagues and pandemics which have decimated millions.

 

When Jesus breaks the 4th seal, 1/4 of the people on earth will die. Today's population is about 7.131 billion, so if the tribulation were to kick off today that'd be about 1.78 billion people dead. That's roughly equivalent to everyone in the US and China. When the 6th trumpet is blown 1/3 of what's left will die, which, even if you factor in a lot more people dying before then will still be another 1.7 billion people. That sounds a lot worse. Thankfully I won't be here for that part =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that would be worse, but if we won't be here that's not something "worse" we will be seeing.

 

For the most part, arguments that things are getting worse seem to focus only upon what's going on in America. We Americans are so America-centric, we have such tunnel vision and lack of understanding of what's going on around the world today or has occurred around the world in history.

 

I hear Christians talking about the rapture must be soon because things are getting worse and worse; then they will talk about Radio Shack not wanting to use the term "Merry Christmas" or arguments over nativity scenes as proof of how much worse the world is today.

 

The "sign" Christ spoke of that would occur before His return was that the Gospel would go out to all peoples. It could very well be we won't even know when that's been accomplished.

 

In the meantime, Christ said there will be wars, famines, natural disasters and such, but that doesn't mean the end is here or even near.

 

Matthew 24:14 is what Jesus said will occur before His return.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 65 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

×