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Ifb Is A Cult?


Miss Daisy

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I believe it may be more of a congregation problem. If the congregation is empowered to select their Pastor; that same power gives them the right to remove the Pastor.

Right (although there would be a leadership problem if the pastor is more like a pope...).  But, Sword, you're right,  it's definitely not a structural problem.  The result, though, is exactly the same.  So, in reality, what is the true difference? 

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I believe it may be more of a congregation problem. If the congregation is empowered to select their Pastor; that same power gives them the right to remove the Pastor.

 

I definitely agree, but again I see that as a problem with the people as opposed to the structure. Cultic leadership and practices are kept in place by the rules of the cultic system rather than the consent/will of the people in it. Really I guess it's just a semantic difference. I completely understand the point that people are practicing, or are allowing, RCC-type in a church that is otherwise supposed to be congregational by original organizational structure.

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I wouldn't say such a system is a leadership problem or a congregational one; I would say everyone involved is responsible.

 

A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof? Jeremiah 5: 30,31

 

 

These people should have had the faith, courage and fortitude to take a stand against the false prophecies and the overbearing control. And the prophets and priests should have resisted the opportunities and temptation for power and filthy lucre.

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The closer you walk to Christ the more the world will hate you, & the more trouble 'Old Satan' will give you. The further you walk from Jesus the less 'Old Satan' will trouble you.

 

The world & all the false teaching churches hates those who hold to Jesus' truths. They think love is only shown by accepting them, their teachings, & encouraging them on the path they take.  They feel anyone who reproves them with God's Word hates them.

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They burn christians, imprison christians, marginalize christians out of jobs, why should hate websites be any surprise? I do believe there are several verses that point to things waxing worse in these last days... Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

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This accusation was the primary reason that my brother and law and I and a few of our "students" started up "Do Right Christians" after the aftermath of the Jack Schaap ordeal. Although there had already been a number of websites dedicated to slamming the IFB, the Jack Schaap ordeal gave them all a chance to capitalize on the high profile nature of that case which skyrocket the readership of those sites as well as gave birth to some newer sites.

 

What we found in these groups was that most of them themselves were cultish. We documented the occult practices and beliefs of Trisha Lacroix so much that she finally came out of the closet wearing a bikini on a sexual victim advocate page then quit the group and they shut the page down to private membership only. http://dorightchristians.wordpress.com/category/trisha-fundamental-revolution-occult/

 

Almost all of these groups started out as a "safe haven" for so-called "victims", who were mostly disgruntled ex IFB members and VERY FEW actual victims of abuse. Jocelyn Zichterman's "IFB CULT SURIVORS" group started that way, and is now virtually full blown atheist. They not only tell members to NOT talk about Jesus, but encourage discussions about burning Bibles. Then she wrote a book called, "I Fired God".

Darrell Dow, creator of Stuff Fundies LIke has virtually the same atmosphere (documented on the Stuffed Undies Like Section on our website. And then ditto the rest of the "Do Right" groups, made of up mostly ex-IFB and "gay rights" activists.

 

Our website got a huge backlash from liberal media and anti-Baptist websites when we wrote about Why Fundamentalists Don't Listen To Our Critics. which pretty much sums up all the tactics used by the "the IFB is a cult" crowds.

 

Harry Ironside once had a visitor in his church who was an agnostic who challenged him to a debate. Ironside accepted his challenge in front of the church but told the man he would do it on 2 conditions one in which that the agnostic bring with him all the known drunkards, prostitutes, drug addicts and wicked living sinners whose lives have been helped and changed by his unbelief.

 

So while the IFB certainly has its faux pas, it is far from being a cult, and considering the source of the majority of the accusations, its beyond the pot calling the kettle black.

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Just what constitutes "worse"?

 

There have been many times throughout the past 2,000 years that Christians have been hunted, beat, raped, tortured and killed; sometimes for sport.

 

There have been huge wars with millions dead.

 

There have been vast plagues and pandemics which have decimated millions.

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Just what constitutes "worse"?

 

There have been many times throughout the past 2,000 years that Christians have been hunted, beat, raped, tortured and killed; sometimes for sport.

 

There have been huge wars with millions dead.

 

There have been vast plagues and pandemics which have decimated millions.

 

When Jesus breaks the 4th seal, 1/4 of the people on earth will die. Today's population is about 7.131 billion, so if the tribulation were to kick off today that'd be about 1.78 billion people dead. That's roughly equivalent to everyone in the US and China. When the 6th trumpet is blown 1/3 of what's left will die, which, even if you factor in a lot more people dying before then will still be another 1.7 billion people. That sounds a lot worse. Thankfully I won't be here for that part =)

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Yes, that would be worse, but if we won't be here that's not something "worse" we will be seeing.

 

For the most part, arguments that things are getting worse seem to focus only upon what's going on in America. We Americans are so America-centric, we have such tunnel vision and lack of understanding of what's going on around the world today or has occurred around the world in history.

 

I hear Christians talking about the rapture must be soon because things are getting worse and worse; then they will talk about Radio Shack not wanting to use the term "Merry Christmas" or arguments over nativity scenes as proof of how much worse the world is today.

 

The "sign" Christ spoke of that would occur before His return was that the Gospel would go out to all peoples. It could very well be we won't even know when that's been accomplished.

 

In the meantime, Christ said there will be wars, famines, natural disasters and such, but that doesn't mean the end is here or even near.

 

Matthew 24:14 is what Jesus said will occur before His return.

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Yes, that would be worse, but if we won't be here that's not something "worse" we will be seeing.

 

For the most part, arguments that things are getting worse seem to focus only upon what's going on in America. We Americans are so America-centric, we have such tunnel vision and lack of understanding of what's going on around the world today or has occurred around the world in history.

 

I hear Christians talking about the rapture must be soon because things are getting worse and worse; then they will talk about Radio Shack not wanting to use the term "Merry Christmas" or arguments over nativity scenes as proof of how much worse the world is today.

 

The "sign" Christ spoke of that would occur before His return was that the Gospel would go out to all peoples. It could very well be we won't even know when that's been accomplished.

 

In the meantime, Christ said there will be wars, famines, natural disasters and such, but that doesn't mean the end is here or even near.

 

Matthew 24:14 is what Jesus said will occur before His return.

 

Agreed.

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I have dropped "fundamental" from my "religion"...I consider myself "Independent Baptist".  I don't think I need the word "Fundamental" anymore, as it has nothing but a negative connotation.  And those churches that still like to be considered "fundamental", many of them do seem to be borderline cultish.   

 

I get pretty irritated at the anger and bitterness that comes from the former "IFB" crowd.  On the other hand, I do not think I was abused quite so badly as some of them, so I guess I should not really judge them for their anger and hatred.  Although I do think they should give it to the Lord and go on with their lives as best they can.

 

I have a friend...his wife was from Hyles and he was from Ruckman.  Now, they consider themselves atheists.   That's what happens when you follow a man instead of God.

 

I find "IFB" sometimes tends towards man-worship.  In my mind, "Independent Baptist" just says that I am independent, and I answer to God.  The Bible CLEARLY says we are not to follow a pastor or group above God.  "I am of Paul, I am of Cephas, I am of Christ" was condemned.   I am glad that our church does not "follow" any particular Bible college or group...we are, indeed, independent...and our church answers to no one but God.  As it should be.

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Fundamentalism today has lost its original meaning. A dozen different fundamentalist churches may have a dozen different definitions of just what the fundamentals are. Some fundamentalists won't accept other fundamentalists if their definitions don't match.

 

We are in a period of transition, as has happened many times over the centuries, where some names, groups and other matters are no longer what they once were and must be separated from in order to once again make a clear distinction. Various churches and Christians in general are approach the matter in some different ways. It may be interesting to see how this all plays out in the near future.

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Fundamentalism today has lost its original meaning. A dozen different fundamentalist churches may have a dozen different definitions of just what the fundamentals are. Some fundamentalists won't accept other fundamentalists if their definitions don't match.

 

We are in a period of transition, as has happened many times over the centuries, where some names, groups and other matters are no longer what they once were and must be separated from in order to once again make a clear distinction. Various churches and Christians in general are approach the matter in some different ways. It may be interesting to see how this all plays out in the near future.

 

I feel the same way.  "Fundamentalism" has taken on a new, horrible meaning.  I no longer want anything to do with the word.  It has become a bad testimony.

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I feel the same way.  "Fundamentalism" has taken on a new, horrible meaning.  I no longer want anything to do with the word.  It has become a bad testimony.

As I stated in another thread; maybe we should just call ourselves Christians. Why does the word 'Fundamental' bring out resentment; because the World has placed negativism to it and it has become a buzz word they use against us. Where does it stop??  If the World bring the word 'Independent'  to the level it has for Fundamental; do we drop it from identifying who we are? Then they identify Baptists as a hate group (which is happening to an extent); do we drop it from our identify? The world is laughing at us because they know that they can use these "buzz" words and get us all upset and angry. Again, where does it stop??  To me it stops with the word "Christian". This is a subject matter where we individually must determine to what extent are we going to allow the World to dictate how much control they will have over us.  Come soon Lord Jesus!!!! My :twocents:

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