Members candlelight Posted December 20, 2013 Members Share Posted December 20, 2013 I think most agree here that the tithe is done away as is all the physical evidences of faith the Lord required prior to pouring out of His Spirit. Now, that is not to say that evidences of faith will not be required again once the Spirit is removed from the earth (but that is another thread topic entirely). The point is not your gross or net or percentage. The point made by the Lord and the early church was if you have enough to buy yourself something you don't need but other members can't make their necessary bills and you don't give, then THAT is sin. How is that for stirring the pot. I think far more is wanted by God of us now than any 10%. 10% was for unregenerate Israel. I guess my hubby and I are "unregenerate" like Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted December 20, 2013 Members Share Posted December 20, 2013 Faith promise is another doctrine being taught in Churches today that is not supported by Scripture. 2 Corinthians 8:12 (KJV) 12 For if there be first a willing mind, [it is] accepted according to that a man hath, [and] not according to that he hath not. 2 Corinthians 8:13 (KJV) 13 For [i mean] not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: Our giving should be according to what we have, not what we don't have. I don't have next years Disability checks. I cannot give, nor promise to give that which I do not have yet. And it is evident by the above verses that God does not expect me to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted December 20, 2013 Members Share Posted December 20, 2013 I think you may have a misunderstanding of what Faith Promise giving is supposed to be. I don't know of anyone who teaches that God expects anyone to give in that manner. That's not to say nobody does because there are people on the fringes of everything. Faith Promise is giving based on faith in God's promise to provide for your needs. Example: I want to give $100/mo to missions and I believe God when He said He would provide me whatever I need if I'm seeking Him and His Kingdom first (Matt 6:24-33 and Luke 6:38 speaks also to grace giving). I have faith that God will provide for me and supply my needs (not necessarily my wants) so I commit to giving to missions without concern to what it will do to my personal budget. THAT's what Faith Promise giving really is and nowhere in there does it even resemble a requirement or expectation. Why do you insist on tearing down the faith of others based on your personal situation? I understand that you have financial difficulties and yes, God doesn't expect or demand money from you and neither should the church. HOWEVER, that does NOT render Faith Promise or grace giving unscriptural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted December 20, 2013 Members Share Posted December 20, 2013 Consider the widow who gave 2 mites (Mark 12:41-44; Luke 21:1-3) and Jesus upheld her as a shining example of faith. Do you think her needs went unmet or that her faith was not rewarded in this life or the next? Now, I don't see where Jesus demanded those two mites from her or flippantly expected that she should give them. Rather I see glowing praise because she did it despite her situation. Jesus clearly didn't care about the amount given, but the heart of the giver. He was clearly pleased with her giving even though she had nothing left. It's a false statement to say that God doesn't want you to give when you have needs yourself. Rather what He wants is an acknowledgment that He's in control of everything and an expression of faith in Him to provide. This is the heart of all giving whether it is tithe, faith promise, or grace. There is no reason to ever disparage anyone for giving or not giving to any degree because it is a matter of the heart that is between the person and God. Yes, it is absolutely wrong for any type of giving to be demanded/expected and use it as a tool for whipping people into obedience or submission. But it is also absolutely wrong to tear down any form of systematic giving because it shouldn't be "required." Shame on all sides throughout history for making it an issue of rules and regulations. I tithe the first 10% of my income because I want to acknowledge to God that I know He gives it to me and I'm dependent upon him for every dollar, every meal, every garment of clothing, and every night spent dry and warm under a roof. I give to faith promise because I love and believe in missions and spreading the Gospel and know that God will take care of me if I'm seeking His kingdom first. I give out of grace to those who have a need I can meet because I want to be a conduit of God's blessing and not a repository. I do the first two regularly, without fail, and regardless of life's circustances. I do the third and the Holy Spirit lays someone's needs on me. I do none of them because I'm required to by God or the church. No one can say any of that is unscriptural. This whole conversation is wearisome and unfruitful because it has been made into an argument of whether the Bible teaches a particular method of giving (admittedly sometimes by me); but in doing so we've missed the larger point and turned it into a contentious topic. If we step back and genuinely look at it we should see that it's not about the money. It's not about the possessions. It's not about the requirements. It's not about getting something in return. It's not about maintaining a social status or position. It's not even about obedience. It's ALL about humility and acknowledging God for who He is, what He does, and how we depend on Him. A better conversation would be not about whether we should give, but on how our giving reflects our relationship with God and how we can best please Him in our giving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Glory Land Posted December 20, 2013 Author Members Share Posted December 20, 2013 I don't make promises to God, Man always fails or do I swear by the name of God. Faith promises are done unto men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LindaR Posted December 20, 2013 Members Share Posted December 20, 2013 Concerning "faith promise", this is interesting from the Liberty Tracts Bible Study course http://www.libertygospeltracts.com/biblecrs/money2/money1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1John2:15-17 Posted December 20, 2013 Members Share Posted December 20, 2013 Concerning "faith promise", this is interesting from the Liberty Tracts Bible Study course http://www.libertygospeltracts.com/biblecrs/money2/money1.htm I'll check this out after work tonight thanks for the link. My reference was from a former church when I lived in MO. At my church here in Ohio we have faith promise as well, but it is only mentioned/preached about once a year during missions conference. I understand that missionaries need support, but don't understand the hardball preaching on it (along with tithing) by some preachers, particularly if either or both are not doctrinally sound. I'll check out the link later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ThePilgrim Posted December 20, 2013 Members Share Posted December 20, 2013 Concerning "faith promise", this is interesting from the Liberty Tracts Bible Study course http://www.libertygospeltracts.com/biblecrs/money2/money1.htm God bless, Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Glory Land Posted December 20, 2013 Author Members Share Posted December 20, 2013 You see, we all can be nice to each other, this post is still going and others posts should be the same. No need call anyone names. Stop by my office to receive your pass certificates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Salyan Posted December 20, 2013 Moderators Share Posted December 20, 2013 I think most agree here that the tithe is done away as is all the physical evidences of faith the Lord required prior to pouring out of His Spirit. Now, that is not to say that evidences of faith will not be required again once the Spirit is removed from the earth (but that is another thread topic entirely). The point is not your gross or net or percentage. The point made by the Lord and the early church was if you have enough to buy yourself something you don't need but other members can't make their necessary bills and you don't give, then THAT is sin. How is that for stirring the pot. I think far more is wanted by God of us now than any 10%. 10% was for unregenerate Israel. Maybe most, but not all. Assuming the tithe is correct as presented (10%, in effect for Christians), then giving of the gross makes sense. The Bible instructs the reader to tithe of all their increase. The fact that the government likes to take 25-30% of my increase ( ) does not mean that it was not, however temporarily, my increase. Oh, and the only time I have a problem with that, personally, is when I'm feeling cheap and stingy. No matter how tight finances are, God always provides for the tithe. It's only when I don't feel like giving that I seem to like to rationalize away that giving. Maybe that's why this question gets my gander - because in my experience, there is always a very bad attitude behind any attempt to not have to tithe. And it's an attitude that's surprisingly catching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted December 21, 2013 Members Share Posted December 21, 2013 I've yet to see the instruction to tithe our money in the New Covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted December 21, 2013 Members Share Posted December 21, 2013 That's because it's not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Arbo Posted December 21, 2013 Members Share Posted December 21, 2013 I've yet to see the instruction to tithe our money in the New Covenant. That's because it's not there. It's just after the prohibition of alcohol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted December 21, 2013 Members Share Posted December 21, 2013 You mean the prohibition that says, Look thou not upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright? Sorry, that chapter says nothing of tithes of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveW Posted December 21, 2013 Members Share Posted December 21, 2013 You mean the prohibition that says, Look thou not upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright? Sorry, that chapter says nothing of tithes of money. Could you show me how Proverbs is New Covenant please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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