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Gift Of Tongues

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I dated a girl from a Pentecostal church, who insisted that, if I spent two weeks sincerely asking the Lord for tongues, I would speak them. So I took her up on her challenge, and for two weeks, every day, I prayed sincerely and honestly for the Lord to give me the gift of tongues IF it was His will for me to have them, and that I might be able to better glorify Him through their use.

 

Guess what happened? Nothing. No tongues. She said I just didn't have faith-the standard reply. She just never thought to seek it according to God's will.

I went to AOG for 20 yrs and spoke in tongues.  Of course, I don't practice that now and haven't for years.  I also thought it was evidence of having the HS. 

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Plus, there's also the problem with the fact that the Bible is clear that the gift of tongues wasn't given to every member of the body.

 

1 Corinthians 12:4-11
4   Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5   And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6   And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7   But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8   For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9   To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10    To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11   But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
 
 
1 Corinthians 12:28-31
28   And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29   Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30   Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31   But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
 
However, the Pentecostals/Charismatics seem to believe that ALL can and should speak in tongues...a direct contradiction to God's word.  Some even take it to the point that speaking in tongues is proof of salvation; thereby, implying that if you're truly saved, you will speak in tongues...which would mean that God would violate his holy word in giving that one particular gift to every member.

 

Most do seem to hold to such an idea though I've known some Pentecostals who don't.

 

Two friends many years ago adopted the belief that speaking in tongues was a proof of salvation. They became so dogmatic about that, and so accusing of all who didn't speak in tongues that it led to separation.

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John, I agree that there are these exceptional instances from time to time, but they are not the norm, and we are never told to seek after these miraculous gifts.  I think that is what separates the Bible Believer from the Charismatic.

 

It is not that we don't believe God could not empower somebody to "speak in another tongue" (i.e. a known language that somebody else present understands), or that God could not empower us to pray over a sick person and then they miraculously recover.  It is that we make the Bible our final authority, and fully trust in God's power to help us in the present moment, crisis, or situation. 

The Charismatic purposefully goes out of his way to try to get these "gifts" and then they abuse these "gifts" (if they truly have them at all.)  They boast of their "gifts" and do not use them for the edification of others. 

The Bible Believer relies upon the power of God through the preaching of the word.  The man in China is a great example - he did not try to speak in tongues, he did what he needed to in the moment, and God did something greater than he imagined.

Agreed, and very well stated.

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I dated a girl from a Pentecostal church, who insisted that, if I spent two weeks sincerely asking the Lord for tongues, I would speak them. So I took her up on her challenge, and for two weeks, every day, I prayed sincerely and honestly for the Lord to give me the gift of tongues IF it was His will for me to have them, and that I might be able to better glorify Him through their use.

 

Guess what happened? Nothing. No tongues. She said I just didn't have faith-the standard reply. She just never thought to seek it according to God's will.

Went down that road many years ago too, minus the dating of a Pentecostal girl!

 

In my situation, afterwards and there being no tongues speaking, those who had asked me to pray about it said that I had showed a lack of faith by say "if" when I had prayed. Like you, I prayed that IF it was His will for me to speak in tongues to His glory and honour then I was willing.

 

At least these Pentecostals still accepted me as a brother in Christ and didn't demand speaking in tongues as a proof of salvation.

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I want give you a long drawn out post. only some quick thoughts to think on, I think that tongues was real languages, & real languages only.

 

1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

 

Paul stated he was not as one that beateth the air. That he did not speak into the air. Sad, many are air beaters, & speak only into the air & that's about all their gibberish talking is good for, beating the air, & no one knowing what has been said.

 

Some verses to meditate on.

 

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
 
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
 
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
 
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
 
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

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Acts 2:

Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

 

When I have heard so-called "speaking in tongues" I have heard meaningless gibberish. And the occasional attempts at interpretation have fallen short of Scriptural admonition. In fact I have felt in my spirit that this is NOT the Holy Spirit of God, & that I do not belong in that company.

 

At Pentecost, the hearers either heard in our tongues the wonderful works of God or drunken babbling - that the mockers heard.

 

If the believers present today only hear what sounds meaningless babbling. how can the Holy Spirit be speaking, & how can the hearers judge what is being said?

 

The point was made early on that tongues were particularly a sign for the unbelieving Jews. 1 Cor. 14:21 quoting Isaiah 28:11 ff. The natural understanding of Isaiah is a foreign, Gentile language, because the Jews refuse the clear word of the LORD. God's dealings with the rebellious Jews was coming to an end - before the passing of the generation that rejected its Messiah. (Mat. 24) That is dated at AD 70. "Tongues" as a Pentecostal gift then ceased - the Apostolic age was ended, though I think no-one would deny the possibility of extraordinary communication between people who could not normally understand each other.

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I am looking for advice and explanations on these verses from a Baptist perspective.  Please no articles or sermons.  I would like dialogue and discussion.  These are the verses charismatics use as explanation for speaking in tongues today.  

 

1 Corinthians 13

 

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity,  I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.  What language does angels speak?  

 

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.  When was it done away?

 

1 Corinthians 14

 

For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.  Why speak in an unknown tongue to God?  Why not speak in your own language?

 

He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; How does this edify oneself if they don't know what they are saying? 

 

Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?  Why come speaking in tongues rather than a known language?

 

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.  Why pray in an unknown tongue?  What does it mean his spirit is praying?

 

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, if tongues are a sign to unbelievers, why pray in tongues other than in church with interpretation?  Why does v2 say that he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men but yet this verse says it is a sign for unbelievers? but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

1) Perhaps Hebrew (Rev. 19:4).

 

2) The common teaching is that which is perfect is the word of God (some say it's the resurrection) but in the context of what Paul was writing and also Colossians 3:14 I believe that which is perfect is "charity". The Corinthians had all the sign gifts but no charity. Paul basically was saying that once charity came they wouldn't need tongues and prophesy to edify one another.

 

3) Praying or speaking in an unknown tongue was a sign primarily to the Jews (I Cor. 1:22) that it was a work of God (Isaiah 28:11; I Cor. 14:21; Acts 2:4-11) though apparently it could be for any unbeliever (I Cor. 14:22-25). Verses 11 and 14 should make it clear that unknown tongues in this chapter are human languages not known to the hearers.

 

4) They're understanding is edified only if there is an interpreter but apparently their spirit could be edified even if there wasn't an interpreter because their spirit is praying to God. 

 

5) Again, praying or speaking in tongues (i.e. and unknown language) was a sign to unbelievers, particularly the Jew (Acts 2:4-11).

 

6) A person's spirit praying probably has something to do with the intercessory work of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in Romans 8:26.

 

7) He that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not to men if there is no one to interpret what they are saying. If there is an interpreter than he is speaking to men, i.e unbelievers, and thus it would be a sign to unbelievers as in Acts 2 (though those folks didn't need an interpreter). 

Edited by ASongOfDegrees

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I went to AOG for 20 yrs and spoke in tongues.  Of course, I don't practice that now and haven't for years.  I also thought it was evidence of having the HS. 

I'm curious: what caused you to turn? After all, the big stumbling block for many is that they have experienced it, thus, it MUST be real, they believe. It must be difficult to have to admit to having been duped for so long. I applaud your willingness to break away.

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I guess I realized that not everything we experience is from God. So rather than base my belief on that experience, I put my belief in what the Bible says about it.


Amen!
We have a more sure word..... ;)

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I guess I realized that not everything we experience is from God.  So rather than base my belief on that experience, I put my belief in what the Bible says about it.

 

Experiences can be good & helpful, yet the Bible is the truth, & as your doing, we should follow the Bible not our experiences.

 

I fear many follow their emotions more than they do the Bible truths.

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I think I have mentioned this before, but it may have bearing on the subject.

 

We were at an open air meal at a Church in France.  They were celebrating the departure of their pastor and the arrival of the new pastor.  

 

There was a lady speaking in a language I didn't understand.  I asked a man who spoke English what language it was and he said "German."  I replied "It doesn't quite sound like German to me."  He said "It is Alsacienne."  I found out later it was his wife.  He said "I have a confession to make, I am German."  Then his wife started singing How Great Thou Art in Alsacienne, he sang it in German, the French sang it in French and my wife and I in English.  

 

To me, the other languages were unknown tongues.  To most of the others English was an unknown tongue.  I believe that tongues were actual languages.  Corinth was a seaport and  would have had mariners from many countries.  Someone speaking in his language would be unknown to his hearers, so he would be edifying himself.

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I think I have mentioned this before, but it may have bearing on the subject.

 

We were at an open air meal at a Church in France.  They were celebrating the departure of their pastor and the arrival of the new pastor.  

 

There was a lady speaking in a language I didn't understand.  I asked a man who spoke English what language it was and he said "German."  I replied "It doesn't quite sound like German to me."  He said "It is Alsacienne."  I found out later it was his wife.  He said "I have a confession to make, I am German."  Then his wife started singing How Great Thou Art in Alsacienne, he sang it in German, the French sang it in French and my wife and I in English.  

 

To me, the other languages were unknown tongues.  To most of the others English was an unknown tongue.  I believe that tongues were actual languages.  Corinth was a seaport and  would have had mariners from many countries.  Someone speaking in his language would be unknown to his hearers, so he would be edifying himself.

 

Well said, Invicta.  When my mom was being spiritually drawn, we spoke about tongues in the Book of Acts.  She said the same thing.  She said they were actual languages, at that time, and do not exist now.  I thought this was very perceptive coming from a woman who was born and raised in the RCC.  She was a very wise woman.  She understood many scriptual passages without questioning them. 

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Laura,
I'd like to reply to your question on tongues. I'll probably be banned, but here goes. John MacArthur has recently stirred up a hot debate with Charismatics and Pentecostals with his "Strange Fire" book and conference.  The whole section you posted about tongues can be difficult to understand using the filters of men's interpretations.  IFB are a cessationist group, meaning tongues and prophecies have ceased.  With that understanding, one sees contradictions throughout those passages you shared.  You either just accept their views (tongues have ceased), or as you are doing, you try to understand what the scriptures are actually saying.  
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that tongues have ceased, nor that Paul condemned the practice.  He spends much time on the subject and gives instruction on how to use this gift, and he concludes by saying 'forbid not to speak with tongues'.  IFB takes the bible literally, but not in this case.  One has to read into the scripture to make it say that tongues have ceased.  It is understandable that those who've never had the experience, would forbid its use to the rest of us.  Further, tongues were not known foreign languages.  On the day of Pentecost, the people heard in their own languages, a miracle of hearing, while the apostles spoke in heavenly languages.  Imagine the 120 speaking in different foreign languages all at the same time, how could anyone pick out any one specific language with all the chatter going on!  And the people thought they were drunk!  Imagine Cornelius' house in Acts.  Again, when they spoke in tongues and prophesied, I really don't think there were present foreign people that needed to hear in their own language - no, it was God's language.  God is doing something much more than a practical thing.  It boils down to whether we limit God or believe he can do anything.  The church is powerless, powerless because of theologians that discourage freedom in the Spirit by their sophistry.  Many are in unbelief.  This results in pastors coming out of bible colleges already trained to stifle the Spirit in their churches.  It is an unsaid rule to not seek the gifts and they are rarely spoken of, so Christians are preached at to conform to pastors' ideals ending up with depending on the works of the flesh.  The Christian is bewildered lacking power and the Spirit is locked away in a box.  
The last thing I want to cover is the notion that tongues have ceased.  In 1 Cor 13:8 - 12: 
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.  For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.  10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
 
In Vs 8 Paul makes a comparison:  Love never fails, but prophecies shall fail, tongues shall cease, knowledge will vanish.  All future tense.  Paul isn't telling us in vs 10 that the Bible is or will be the "perfect".  No, In vs 12, he says we see through a glass darkly but then face to face; now I know in part, but shall I know, even as also I am known.  This cannot be the Bible!  The face to face can only mean when we see Christ, not the Bible!  Has knowledge vanished?  Have tongues ceased?  Paul is merely telling us that it's about Love and that should our aim, his purpose is Love, not that tongues, prophecy, or knowledge will be replaced by the bible.  I do not believe that Paul was envisioning the 66 books of the KJV bible.
 
 

I am looking for advice and explanations on these verses from a Baptist perspective.  Please no articles or sermons.  I would like dialogue and discussion.  These are the verses charismatics use as explanation for speaking in tongues today.  

 

1 Corinthians 13

 

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity,  I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.  What language does angels speak?  

 

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.  When was it done away?

 

1 Corinthians 14

 

For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.  Why speak in an unknown tongue to God?  Why not speak in your own language?

 

He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; How does this edify oneself if they don't know what they are saying? 

 

Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?  Why come speaking in tongues rather than a known language?

 

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.  Why pray in an unknown tongue?  What does it mean his spirit is praying?

 

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, if tongues are a sign to unbelievers, why pray in tongues other than in church with interpretation?  Why does v2 say that he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men but yet this verse says it is a sign for unbelievers? but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

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Not to make lite of a gift, but that's an interesting concept, as to whether or not anyone has ever signed "in tongues".

 

I have no doubt the Lord could bring such about, but has anyone ever heard of such a thing? (I've never even thought about it until now)

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Huh? who says that which is Perfect is the Bible?

 

I don't think that which is Perfect is simply the completed Word. I think the completed Word of God plays a big part of knowing as I am known however.

 

That which is Perfect is the Spirit gradually as He descended upon the believers at Pentecost. Then as these believers spread out after Pentecost, this Spirit was poured out upon all flesh as they spread the Gospel and so on and so on and so on.

 

All signs/wonders/miracles cease as the Spirit indwells believers. No need for them anymore. Most of the civilized world is now influenced by the Spirit indwelling local believers.

 

Why would you need signs/wonders as a child, when God Himself indwells believers now as men?

 

When has anyone honestly seen "real" healings as recorded in the Gospels and Acts? Real demonic possessions as recorded in the Gospels and Acts?

 

Perhaps in the darkest, remotest parts of africa and china there may be overt demon activity as recorded in the Word, but nowhere where the Gospel has saturated and the Spirit is local in believers.

 

Without signs/wonders like this demonic activity and gifts like real healing, there will be no tongues. They all go together and were all done away as the Spirit regenerates believers. No need for any of that, the Spirit shows us truth in the Word now.

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IFB are a cessationist group, meaning tongues and prophecies have ceased.
 
But you have yourself listed as an IFB under your own photo.  Therefore, you also believe that tongues and prophecies have ceased.
 
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that tongues have ceased,
 
That's correct.
 
Further, tongues were not known foreign languages.  On the day of Pentecost, the people heard in their own languages, a miracle of hearing, while the apostles spoke in heavenly languages.  Imagine the 120 speaking in different foreign languages all at the same time, how could anyone pick out any one specific language with all the chatter going on!  
 
The general thought is that the men all spoke at the same time; however, that would be confusion, and God isn't the author of confusion.  In fact, the Bible makes it clear that they spoke "as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:4).  They took turns speaking.
 
The "miracle of hearing" has credence; however, Acts 2:11 makes it clear that the foreigners heard them SPEAK in their language...it wasn't a miracle of hearing. 
 
Imagine Cornelius' house in Acts.  Again, when they spoke in tongues and prophesied,
 
The Bible says nothing about them prophesying...it says they magnified God.
 
I really don't think there were present foreign people that needed to hear in their own language - no, it was God's language.  
 
No foreign people? Cornelius was a foreigner himself...from Italy.
 
Acts 10:1
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
 
If there were no foreign people present (besides Cornelius the foreigner), then how do you explain...
 
Acts 10:24
And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
 
Acts 10:27-28
27   And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28   And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
 
Acts 10:33
Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
 
Cornelius was Italian, his kinsmen were there, and his near friends were there too.  The Bible makes it clear that there were MANY there...and the many were foreigners.
 
God is doing something much more than a practical thing.  It boils down to whether we limit God or believe he can do anything.  The church is powerless, powerless because of theologians that discourage freedom in the Spirit by their sophistry.  Many are in unbelief.  This results in pastors coming out of bible colleges already trained to stifle the Spirit in their churches.  It is an unsaid rule to not seek the gifts and they are rarely spoken of, so Christians are preached at to conform to pastors' ideals ending up with depending on the works of the flesh.  The Christian is bewildered lacking power and the Spirit is locked away in a box.  
 
You're right in some aspects of what you say here.  However, I don't agree with the angle you're coming from.  The church is powerless for several reasons...
 
The last thing I want to cover is the notion that tongues have ceased.  In 1 Cor 13:8 - 12: 
 
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.  For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.  10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
 
In Vs 8 Paul makes a comparison:  Love never fails, but prophecies shall fail, tongues shall cease, knowledge will vanish.  All future tense.  Paul isn't telling us in vs 10 that the Bible is or will be the "perfect".  No, In vs 12, he says we see through a glass darkly but then face to face; now I know in part, but shall I know, even as also I am known.  This cannot be the Bible!  The face to face can only mean when we see Christ, not the Bible!  Has knowledge vanished?  Have tongues ceased?  Paul is merely telling us that it's about Love and that should our aim, his purpose is Love, not that tongues, prophecy, or knowledge will be replaced by the bible.  I do not believe that Paul was envisioning the 66 books of the KJV bible.

 

You're correct; Paul was adamant that tongues, prophecy, and knowledge would all pass away in the future...and they have.  The "knowledge" that he's speaking of isn't talking about just knowing things; he's speaking of the "word of knowledge" which was a gift of the Spirit.  Paul said that all three of those gifts of the Spirit would come to an end in the future.  If these three gifts of the Spirit will only pass away once we see Jesus, and if "knowledge" simply means "knowing things" (as the Signs and Wonders teachers say), then it makes absolutely no sense to say that once we see Jesus Christ, we won't have any knowledge any more.  All three gifts of the Spirit have ended today.

Edited by No Nicolaitans

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 "It boils down to whether we limit God or believe he can do anything."  Yes God is capable of doing anything; however, God will not do anything that is against his Word.

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I've heard and read plenty of accounts from reliable missionaries who attest to the reality of miracles, demonic activity and various signs and wonders. Most all of these are Baptists too, not on the edge Charismatics.

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