Gift Of Tongues

[No Nicolaitans]

 

IFB are a cessationist group, meaning tongues and prophecies have ceased.

 

But you have yourself listed as an IFB under your own photo.  Therefore, you also believe that tongues and prophecies have ceased.

 

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that tongues have ceased,

 

That's correct.

 

Further, tongues were not known foreign languages.  On the day of Pentecost, the people heard in their own languages, a miracle of hearing, while the apostles spoke in heavenly languages.  Imagine the 120 speaking in different foreign languages all at the same time, how could anyone pick out any one specific language with all the chatter going on!  

 

The general thought is that the men all spoke at the same time; however, that would be confusion, and God isn't the author of confusion.  In fact, the Bible makes it clear that they spoke "as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:4).  They took turns speaking.

 

The "miracle of hearing" has credence; however, Acts 2:11 makes it clear that the foreigners heard them SPEAK in their language...it wasn't a miracle of hearing. 

 

Imagine Cornelius' house in Acts.  Again, when they spoke in tongues and prophesied,

 

The Bible says nothing about them prophesying...it says they magnified God.

 

I really don't think there were present foreign people that needed to hear in their own language - no, it was God's language.  

 

No foreign people? Cornelius was a foreigner himself...from Italy.

 

Acts 10:1

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

 

If there were no foreign people present (besides Cornelius the foreigner), then how do you explain...

 

Acts 10:24

And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends.

 

Acts 10:27-28

27   And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

28   And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

 

Acts 10:33

Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.

 

Cornelius was Italian, his kinsmen were there, and his near friends were there too.  The Bible makes it clear that there were MANY there...and the many were foreigners.

 

God is doing something much more than a practical thing.  It boils down to whether we limit God or believe he can do anything.  The church is powerless, powerless because of theologians that discourage freedom in the Spirit by their sophistry.  Many are in unbelief.  This results in pastors coming out of bible colleges already trained to stifle the Spirit in their churches.  It is an unsaid rule to not seek the gifts and they are rarely spoken of, so Christians are preached at to conform to pastors' ideals ending up with depending on the works of the flesh.  The Christian is bewildered lacking power and the Spirit is locked away in a box.  

 

You're right in some aspects of what you say here.  However, I don't agree with the angle you're coming from.  The church is powerless for several reasons...

 

The last thing I want to cover is the notion that tongues have ceased.  In 1 Cor 13:8 - 12: 

 

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.  9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.  10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

In Vs 8 Paul makes a comparison:  Love never fails, but prophecies shall fail, tongues shall cease, knowledge will vanish.  All future tense.  Paul isn't telling us in vs 10 that the Bible is or will be the "perfect".  No, In vs 12, he says we see through a glass darkly but then face to face; now I know in part, but shall I know, even as also I am known.  This cannot be the Bible!  The face to face can only mean when we see Christ, not the Bible!  Has knowledge vanished?  Have tongues ceased?  Paul is merely telling us that it's about Love and that should our aim, his purpose is Love, not that tongues, prophecy, or knowledge will be replaced by the bible.  I do not believe that Paul was envisioning the 66 books of the KJV bible.

 

You're correct; Paul was adamant that tongues, prophecy, and knowledge would all pass away in the future...and they have.  The "knowledge" that he's speaking of isn't talking about just knowing things; he's speaking of the "word of knowledge" which was a gift of the Spirit.  Paul said that all three of those gifts of the Spirit would come to an end in the future.  If these three gifts of the Spirit will only pass away once we see Jesus, and if "knowledge" simply means "knowing things" (as the Signs and Wonders teachers say), then it makes absolutely no sense to say that once we see Jesus Christ, we won't have any knowledge any more.  All three gifts of the Spirit have ended today.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Excellent response, NN,

[Bro K]

 "It boils down to whether we limit God or believe he can do anything."  Yes God is capable of doing anything; however, God will not do anything that is against his Word.

[John81]

I've heard and read plenty of accounts from reliable missionaries who attest to the reality of miracles, demonic activity and various signs and wonders. Most all of these are Baptists too, not on the edge Charismatics.

[JerryNumbers]

God will not go against His Word, & His Word says tongues has ceased, & its not hat we limit God, its that God limits us  though His Word. And being as God will not go against His Word, God limits what He Himself will do.

[John81]

Where does Scripture say tongues has ceased?

[DaveW]

Tongues as a miracle are only recorded as happening 3 times (I think) and in very specific situations. (Acts 2, 10, 19)
Paul's teaching referenced earlier is about the only teaching regarding it - it swings on "that which is perfect".
It is also only to one single church - the church at Corinth.

I am pretty much over people ignoring context to hold their own thoughts so I will leave it up to you to decide on that which is perfect.

As I mentioned previously, even if you wish to ignore plain Bible text, there is NO WAY POSSIBLE to suggest tongues is a proof of salvation or some universal marker of the Holy Spirit or spirituality - that alone marks modern tongues as unbiblical in vast majority of cases.

[John81]

I absolutely agree that the vast majority of "tongues" spoken of today are not what we read of in Scripture.

 

While I've heard of other things from missionaries, actual tongues seems to be a very rare matter.

 

I know of many accounts of the Lord drawing the lost to Him through dreams and people being healed after being prayed over (not the Benny Hinn sort of nonsense).

 

Most of the Baptist missionaries who have spoke on these matters were serving in India or the Middle East (a few in Africa).

[candlelight]

Where does Scripture say tongues has ceased?

 
This is one passage in the NT where it says tongues has ceased, John?

"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe." ~ I Corinthians 14:22

There is another NT scripture, but I can't seem to find it right now, in my Bible.  It has been awhile since I talked with people about "tongues."

[John81]

That says nothing about tongues being ceased.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

There is only one verse in the Bible that speaks of cessation of tongues.  (1 Cor. 13:8) At the time it was written, (59 A.D. ) tongues had not yet ceased, but the verse indicates that the cessation would be at a future time and date.  That date being, when that which is perfect is come.

 

[candlelight]

Yep.  I Corinthians 13:8 is the other verse, SFIC.

John, this verse says a lot to me.

"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe." ~ I Corinthians 14:22

Tongues were for a sign to the unbelieving.  We don't need tongues anymore b/c we believe.  We don't need "signs."
 

[John81]

The verse says nothing about tongues ceasing and that which is perfect, Christ, has not yet come.

 

There are still many unbelieving around the world, likely at least 90+% of the planet. Of that huge number, there are yet millions who have never even heard of Christ, never heard the Gospel at all.

 

Just to be clear, I'm in no way trying to say babbling gibberish in some American (and elsewhere) churches is biblical tongues. I'm not even saying biblical tongues is a common or oft released gift.

 

Yet Scripture doesn't say any of the gifts have ceased, and there are rare cases where biblical tongues, such as the case of the Baptist missionary in China who suddenly started being heard by everyone in Chinese when he couldn't speak that language, have occurred.

[Bro K]

Yet Scripture doesn't say any of the gifts have ceased, and there are rare cases where biblical tongues, such as the case of the Baptist missionary in China who suddenly started being heard by everyone in Chinese when he couldn't speak that language, have occurred.

 

Would this scenario be correct?   The missionary spoke in English, but the Chinese heard in Chinese. Simply put: there is no speaking in tongues (or foreign language) by the speaker; but the power of God working in the minds of the hearers to understand the speaker in their own language. Maybe someone can explain it better than I.

[John81]

I don't know. Some speculate that when Peter and the Apostles spoke in tongues so all heard them in their own language that it was a matter of God causing all to hear in their own language rather than a change of actual language spoken.

 

How all that works, I don't know. I've never heard actual biblical tongues spoken, and have never spoken such myself.