United Church Of God

[JerryNumbers]

The coC, churches of Christ actually believes, teaches, you must be baptized into the coC to enter Heaven.

 

Founded by Alexandra Campbell who was baptized by a Baptist preacher, so according to the doctrine of the church he founded he is restricted from entering Heaven. Of course since much time has passed since he founded the coC now they claim to go all the way back to Jesus & many that call their self Christians promotes this church & defends it.

 

the coC like any false teaching church that's founded as time goes by they start being accepted as a true church by the world & by many churches. Just as now the Mormon church is widely accept as a true Jesus worshiping church, of course they worship a different Jesus than we do, they worship one who became good enough to be a god. Mitt Romney running for president made his church more acceptable to this country & even many Christians with help from Billy Graham taking the Mormon Church off his cult list, calling Mitt & the Mormon Church a true worshiper of the true Jesus Christ.

[swathdiver]

I think I agree with you here.  I believe it is talking about a spiritual baptism.

 

 

Did you read the accompanying article?

 

Does the Holy Ghost baptize people?  I know Pentecostals think so...

[Covenanter]

Interesting and very creepy, too.  My sister has a SIL along with her husband, which are member's of Church of Christ.  I believe they believe in "Replacement Theology", as well... where God is done with the Jews.

 

I've had a long & cordial fellowship with one I understand is a member of the CoC, who believes water baptism by immersion is necessary for salvation, & who teaches "replacement theology." 

 

Does that make him (& me) heretics? We are an independent baptist forum - IFB - so we all expect Christians to be baptised. So did the Apostles:

Acts 2:³⁸ Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

³⁹ For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

⁴⁰ And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

⁴¹ Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

Gal. 3:²⁶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

²⁷ For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

²⁸ There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

²⁹ And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

That is NOT adding baptism as an "works extra" to salvation by grace through faith. It is an act of obedience symbolising our surrender to Christ, & commitment to his church & his people. Would ANY of our churches welcome those who refuse baptism into membership? 

 

There is a lot of false info about so-called "replacement theology." Especially by futurists & disps. The truth is simply stated e.g. in Gal. 3 & Eph. 2. Jews are no longer a separate chosen people, nor have they a glorious future apart from the church. Believing Jews & Gentiles comprise one redeemed people of God in Christ, inheriting ALL the promises to Abraham, fulfilled in Jesus our Saviour.

Eph. 4:⁴ There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

⁵ One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

⁶ One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

You will find NOWHERE in the teaching of Jesus & his Apostles the heretical teaching of the disps that Jews who miss the so-called "rapture" can yet turn to Christ & enjoy earthly fulfilment of the promises to Abraham.

[Calvary]

Did you read the accompanying article?

 

Does the Holy Ghost baptize people?  I know Pentecostals think so...

 

1 Corinthians 12:13 says he did. That´s all I need to read.

It doesn´t matter what Pentecostals think, I only care what the Bible SAYS.

 

In an attempt to make 1 Corinthians 12, Romans 6 and Colossians 3 speak of water one effectively is saying that water baptism puts one in the Body of Christ, and by implication that the Body of Christ and the local church are one and the same thing. One should think that through before responding. Body of Christ = Local Church?? Is your local church membership absolutely 100% guaranteed born again? There can be no unregenerate member of the Body of Christ, yet it is common enough to know that there are many unregenerate members of local churches. That in and of itself is enough to realize that the Body of Christ and the local church cannot be one and the same.

 

God bless

calvary

[Left the Bldg]

Did you read the accompanying article?

 

Does the Holy Ghost baptize people?  I know Pentecostals think so...

I read the article and it sounds like just because you are water baptized in the local church you are part of the body of Christ.   

 

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

 

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

 

Luke 3:16  John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

 

John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

 

You are right in saying the Holy Ghost does not baptize.  However, these verses indicate that John the Baptist baptized with water but Jesus baptizes believers into the Spirit. 

 

1 Corinthians 1:12-13 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”;another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

 

In the name of Jesus we are baptized with the Spirit into the body of Christ.

 

So I disagree when you say it is regarding water baptism in a local church.

 

Does that make sense?

[JerryNumbers]

I've had a long & cordial fellowship with one I understand is a member of the CoC, who believes water baptism by immersion is necessary for salvation, & who teaches "replacement theology." 

 

Does that make him (& me) heretics? We are an independent baptist forum - IFB - so we all expect Christians to be baptised. So did the Apostles:

Acts 2:³⁸ Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

³⁹ For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

⁴⁰ And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

⁴¹ Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

Gal. 3:²⁶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

²⁷ For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

²⁸ There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

²⁹ And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

That is NOT adding baptism as an "works extra" to salvation by grace through faith. It is an act of obedience symbolising our surrender to Christ, & commitment to his church & his people. Would ANY of our churches welcome those who refuse baptism into membership? 

 

There is a lot of false info about so-called "replacement theology." Especially by futurists & disps. The truth is simply stated e.g. in Gal. 3 & Eph. 2. Jews are no longer a separate chosen people, nor have they a glorious future apart from the church. Believing Jews & Gentiles comprise one redeemed people of God in Christ, inheriting ALL the promises to Abraham, fulfilled in Jesus our Saviour.

Eph. 4:⁴ There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

⁵ One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

⁶ One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

You will find NOWHERE in the teaching of Jesus & his Apostles the heretical teaching of the disps that Jews who miss the so-called "rapture" can yet turn to Christ & enjoy earthly fulfilment of the promises to Abraham.

 

It makes him lost.

 

If they're lost, them baptized, they're still lost, only saved people are to be baptized.

 

There is one & only one way to be saved, its by grace though faith, not thinking its necessary to be baptized, while trusting baptizing.

[Covenanter]

It makes him lost.

 

If they're lost, them baptized, they're still lost, only saved people are to be baptized.

 

There is one & only one way to be saved, its by grace though faith, not thinking its necessary to be baptized, while trusting baptizing.

I consider this to be a misunderstanding - we baptise repentant sinners who believe in Jesus as Lord & Saviour & welcome them into the church fellowship.Jesus said: Mark 16:¹⁶ He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

Regeneration is the moment of salvation as the sinner passes from death to life. Baptism follows, but if the person refuses baptism, should we consider them saved anyway? In his excellent book "Nobody Left Behind" Elliott considers & rejects easy salvation using the "salvation prayer." Salvation is much more than a quick prayer/decision; it's new life; new birth.

 

My experience of CoC is one faithful man of God. There may be false teachers - as there are in every denomination.

[JerryNumbers]

I consider this to be a misunderstanding - we baptise repentant sinners who believe in Jesus as Lord & Saviour & welcome them into the church fellowship.Jesus said: Mark 16:¹⁶ He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

Regeneration is the moment of salvation as the sinner passes from death to life. Baptism follows, but if the person refuses baptism, should we consider them saved anyway? In his excellent book "Nobody Left Behind" Elliott considers & rejects easy salvation using the "salvation prayer." Salvation is much more than a quick prayer/decision; it's new life; new birth.

 

My experience of CoC is one faithful man of God. There may be false teachers - as there are in every denomination.

 

Baptizing does not save, & has never saved a soul, & the Bible does not teach it saves. So, no, if you do that your adding to the Bible. That is unless you believe baptizing is necessary for salvation, & that's what the churches of Christ, & many others teach. That is, they teach Jesus can't save you by Himself, you must have both Jesus, plus being baptized.

 

If you believe baptizing to saved you, them your not pacing all of your trust in Jesus.

 

 

 

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

For example this verse, its very clear & very simple, & there's many more of them just like this that backs it up if you will check the Bible out. Remember the Bible does not contradict itself, & those who add baptizing to being saved makes the Bible contradict it self.

 

John 3:36 divides all people of this world into two groups, those who are saved, those who are lost. And those who are saved are saved by believing on Jesus, those who are lost are lost because they do not believe on Jesus. And of course it does not even mentioing baptizing.

 

In the Bible the example set fort is, a person is saved, them baptized, not saved by baptizing.

 

Ro 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Ro 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

 

Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

Ro 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

 

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

If you add anything to believing on Jesus, its no longer by grace, it has become by works.

 

No man can do anything to save a person or their self, outside of repenting, confessing, &  believing on Jesus the Savior, & of course that was His mission, & He 100% succeed doing exactly as His Father told Him to.

 

Nobody left Behind is a very bad choice to name a book when it comes writing a book teaching the Bible. For in that day many will be left behind when the rapture takes place, for there's many lost people in this world that will be here right on this earth right up to the end when the last resurrection takes place, & all of them will stand before the Great White Throne, them be cast into the lake of fire.

 

Daniel 12:2

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

Yes, the saved will be part of the resurrection of life, the lost the resurrection of damnation, the saved to everlasting life, the lost of everlasting contempt.

 

So the lost person needs to place all of their trust into Jesus, & not add baptizing to it? For one is only saved by grace though faith in Jesus, not of self, not of works, its a free gift. Its not a misunderstanding, its a Bible fact, baptizing does not save.

[Covenanter]

I basically agree with you on this - I even accept that the KJV translators were true Christians, even though baptised as infants. However, we are not saved by out theological correctness, but our living faith in Jesus as Lord & Saviour. 

[John81]

It's good to see Scripture in use.

 

It's also good to see the point about "theological correctness". Our pastor touched upon that in Sunday school yesterday. While we believe and say salvation is by grace through faith alone; in practice some of us add works to the mix (without even realizing it) by declaring that some folks couldn't have ever been saved if they now hold to some wrong theological view. Such a statement is in effect saying that one must come to hold to perfect theology in order to make their salvation sure. Works.

 

Salvation is by grace through faith. Where we stand on other matters after salvation is a matter of maturity, teaching and discipling; not a measuring rod of whether one is saved or not.

[JerryNumbers]

I basically agree with you on this - I even accept that the KJV translators were true Christians, even though baptised as infants. However, we are not saved by out theological correctness, but our living faith in Jesus as Lord & Saviour. 

 

Being correct on Bible teaching can get you save, yet if your wrong on Bible teaching & you stay in that belief you can never be saved. There is one & only one way a person can be saved, its only by grace though faith in Jesus not of self, not of works, its a free gift.

 

So yes, theological correctness is important when its about salvation, extremely important, it can be the difference between being saved or being lost, the difference of eternal life or eternal contempt. the difference of Heaven & Hell.

 

 

Perhaps you did not mean to say it in that manner for we all word things in a bad way many times, so this is not an accusation.

 

"Living faith" sounds much like being saved by works over a long time period. When one is saved, they're instantly saved forever, & God keeps us saved, we can do nothing to keep our self saved, if we could that would be works & we would be very prideful.

 

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

 

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

 

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand

 

2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

 

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

 

 

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

 

And that's another bad thing about the churches of Christ, they teach you can lose your salvation again & again throughout your life, & get saved again & again, just as most who teach works based salvation do.

 

The Bible is quite clear when one is saved they have eternal life.

 

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

 

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

Ac 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[Ukulelemike]

I attended a coC for about 6 months, just prior to becoming an IFB. I know they believe you can lose salvation-if you backslide, you are lost and must confess your sins before the brethren, go through an 8-week class before you are ready to be saved again, and then you are baptized, at which point your sins are literally 'washed away'. They also rejected musical instruments in the church service.

 

I realize that group might have been unique in what they did, but I believe many of these things are common among that particular sect of church of Christ.

 

Even though I was quite back-slidden, I could see them for what they were. I praise God that about that time I went to Long Beach and began to attend the First Baptist Church of Long Beach, my first IFB church, and I have never looked back. I did, however, do about a year stint at an SBC church in a tiny town where there was no IFB church, and they were good, KJV, fundamental, (though the pastor's wife wore pants, not mentioned as a chance to argue that). That was also the first place I ever preached a sermon.

[swathdiver]

1 Corinthians 12:13 says he did. That´s all I need to read.

It doesn´t matter what Pentecostals think, I only care what the Bible SAYS.

 

In an attempt to make 1 Corinthians 12, Romans 6 and Colossians 3 speak of water one effectively is saying that water baptism puts one in the Body of Christ, and by implication that the Body of Christ and the local church are one and the same thing. One should think that through before responding. Body of Christ = Local Church?? 

 

As stated previously, I disagree.  The Spirit prompts us to get baptized which also allows us into membership with a NTC.

 

Where in the bible do the scriptures teach that a singular person is a church and or a part of the Body of Christ by themselves?

[Left the Bldg]

If one accepts Christ as savior and believes but does not go to church or get baptized.  What does that mean?

[Ukulelemike]

If one accepts Christ as savior and believes but does not go to church or get baptized.  What does that mean?

Unless dealing with someone totally untaught at first, or with no means to go to a church and be baptized, then it sounds like someone dealing with at least rebellious heart and probably not saved. If one believes on Christ unto salvation, there should be, at some point, a change in their heart and a desire to follow, at least in SOME aspect. If there is a deliberate desire to forsake the assembly and the command of baptism, that's a sign of possibly not being saved at all.

 

never understood people who, upon being saved, their initial act is to reject the things of God and rebel against His word. By their fruits we know them, eh?

 

Remember, Jesus said that His sheep FOLLOW Him-we don't always follow perfectly, and if you have ever kept sheep, you'll understand that, but we Do know Him and follow Him and His voice. When the sheep refuse to follow, maybe they're not of His flock after all.