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JerryNumbers

How To Overcome An Addiction To Mountain Dew

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John, thank you for your posts brother.  This conversation is over on my part.  I won't defend myself anymore to people who make you feel like you are :bang:   The Lord knows my heart, not man.  Many are forgetting that I have brought two women to my old IFB church, as a result of Al-Anon.  One woman and her husband are members... and have been for several years.  Some of these people fail to see that I am using Al-Anon as a seed planting ministry, and it works.  I fellowship with many born again believers in the 12 Step Program.  My husband, son and church family believe I am doing awesome work for the Lord.  I know God wants me to continue helping those in need. Through this program... the Lord knows I am able to cope better with my brother's addiction, as well.  My husband, son and church know it, so that's fine with me.  I don't need OB approval... "So let it be written, so let it be done!"  ;)   While I am reading the negativity in this thread, I can't help but say?  "Should my husband and I move to the streets b/c my brother, whom we live with, is a functioning drunk?  Should we be homeless, b/c we can't find affordable housing yet?"  Again, those I love and care about... and those who love and care about me in return, believe the Lord has placed Joe and I in a situation where we can be a good witness and a testimony to my brother.  Hey, it works!  He was saved two years ago, he just hasn't given up drinking yet.  He hasn't asked God to remove it from him, yet.  He is slowly cutting back on his beer intake, though.  I don't "walk a mile in anyone's shoes" nor do they in mine.  My motives are pure and the Lord is using me greatly in this area.  I don't drink, alcohol.  I despise it, but b/c of family history... I am surrounding by drinkers, sometimes.  It is life.  I will continue to do the work that the Lord has set out for me to do.  God died for the drunk, too, and those who are affected by living with a drunk... like myself.  Many are failing to see that.  :scratchchin: Maybe, I will spend my days watching Soap Operas all day long instead of witnessing to the lost and fellowshipping with believers.  Yeah, that's right.  God loves it when I am slothful.  :snooze:  I will just lay around all day, forget about following "The Great Commission"... and wait for the Rapture.  :shootme:     

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If they are "born again believers" they have no business in that den of idolatry.

2 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV) 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

2 Corinthians 6:18 (KJV) 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

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The 3 C's of Bible Study are context, common sense and compare.  That should say it all! 

I won't confuse the word of God and the books written in it, with "the gospel according to SFIC."  *sigh*

 

John, IFBs are too seperate.  The early church, consisting of Hebrew Christians, were not.  My FIL, and also the head deacon in my church, has always said the problem with the IFB is too much separation.  Most IFB churches don't even fellowship with other IFB churches.  Someone leaves an IFB church to go to another IFB church and they are shunned.  Well, that is the Amish mentality.  :realitycheck:  

Edited by candlelight

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There can never be "too much separation" when it comes to sin.

God's Word says "Come out."  It doesn't say "keep your foot in the door."

How can anyone who is Christian ignore the command to "Come out," when the Lord says that if the do He will receive them?  The obverse is, 'Do not come out, and I will not receive you." 

Two sides to every coin.

 

Light has no fellowship with darkness.

Christians are told to "give no offense in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed."  How many people die and end up in a Christless eternity because someone told them they were saved because they trusted a "higher power" that was not God?

I have a feeling the numbers are staggering.

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Whatever the gospel according to SFIC says, I will follow.  It is law...  :th_laugh1:  If you don't care about the lost and saved souls in 12 Step Programs?  I really don't care much.  "Don't take another person's inventory, you have enough of your own to be concerned about."  End of story.

:11backtotopic: 



 

Edited by candlelight

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Whatever the gospel according to SFIC says, I will follow.  It is law...  :th_laugh1:  If you don't care about the lost and saved souls in 12 Step Programs?  I really don't care much.  "Don't take another person's inventory, you have enough of your own to be concerned about."  End of story.

:11backtotopic: 



 

Better open your Bible and read it, cl.  It is not the Gospel according to sfic.  It is what is written in the Word of God.

You can rely on the 12 Step Program all day long and quote its qualities.  But I'll let you in on a well-known fact.

It can't be found anywhere in Scripture.  Nor is it supported by Scripture.

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There can never be "too much separation" when it comes to sin.

God's Word says "Come out."  It doesn't say "keep your foot in the door."

How can anyone who is Christian ignore the command to "Come out," when the Lord says that if the do He will receive them?  The obverse is, 'Do not come out, and I will not receive you." 

Two sides to every coin.

 

Light has no fellowship with darkness.

Christians are told to "give no offense in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed."  How many people die and end up in a Christless eternity because someone told them they were saved because they trusted a "higher power" that was not God?

I have a feeling the numbers are staggering.

In that case we better not shop at Walmart because they sell booze and cigarettes. We must avoid virtually all gas stations because of the same thing, plus they sell lotto tickets! Best avoid working in most non-Christian occupations because most of them give allowance for smoking, most often providing special places to do so, and most are fully accepting of their employees drinking when not at work, and they are accepting of homosexuals. We better sell our vehicles because if someone sees us driving them they will know our dollars went to support abortion, homosexuality, booze and a host of other sins.

 

By the time we get finished we find ourselves back to the need to become Amish-like Baptists, truly separating from the world.

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What ever it is, or may be, there's only one sure cure for the problem, & its not from a man made program sharing faith beteen man & God, it placing all of one's faith in God, & God alone.

 

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

 

Seems we have some doubters in what faith in God alone can accomplish, & overcome & just can't help but placing part of the faith in man & mans inventions.

 

Ps 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Ps 118:9 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

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There can never be "too much separation" when it comes to sin.

God's Word says "Come out."  It doesn't say "keep your foot in the door."

How can anyone who is Christian ignore the command to "Come out," when the Lord says that if the do He will receive them?  The obverse is, 'Do not come out, and I will not receive you." 

Two sides to every coin.

 

Light has no fellowship with darkness.

Christians are told to "give no offense in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed."  How many people die and end up in a Christless eternity because someone told them they were saved because they trusted a "higher power" that was not God?

I have a feeling the numbers are staggering.

 

Some hates godly separation, it separates them from the ones they enjoy being with, those whom they have all things in common with.

 

Israel had a big problem with staying separated, they enjoyed associating with the ungodly & it cost them much grief over & over again & again.

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In that case we better not shop at Walmart because they sell booze and cigarettes. We must avoid virtually all gas stations because of the same thing, plus they sell lotto tickets! Best avoid working in most non-Christian occupations because most of them give allowance for smoking, most often providing special places to do so, and most are fully accepting of their employees drinking when not at work, and they are accepting of homosexuals. We better sell our vehicles because if someone sees us driving them they will know our dollars went to support abortion, homosexuality, booze and a host of other sins.
 
By the time we get finished we find ourselves back to the need to become Amish-like Baptists, truly separating from the world.

apples and oranges, John.

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apples and oranges, John.

How is that? What you have said are reasons for not attending AA also applies to stores, businesses, workplaces and such.

 

Which is it, do we pick and choose which places we think we should separate from but excuse those we want to use, or do we apply the principle to all things?

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What ever it is, or may be, there's only one sure cure for the problem, & its not from a man made program sharing faith beteen man & God, it placing all of one's faith in God, & God alone.

 

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

 

Seems we have some doubters in what faith in God alone can accomplish, & overcome & just can't help but placing part of the faith in man & mans inventions.

 

Ps 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Ps 118:9 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

 

No one here has said anything about doubting faith in God. You have faith in God yet you see a doctor when you need assistance in that area. Some people with drinking problems need some assistance too.

 

Some folks with drinking problems may have a doctor who can help them, a pastor, a church support group, or friends or family, but many people don't have such available help.

 

Sometimes simply sitting and talking with people who understand your problem is help in itself.

 

I've never been an alcoholic. Thanks be to God, I've never had a desire to drink nor have I liked the few tastes I had way back when. There is no way I can fully relate to someone talking about alcoholic problems.

 

On the other hand, my Mom fought cancer for 15 years and died at home while on hospice. With that experience I am able to sit with someone going through something similar and speak with them on the matter.

 

Some Christians are able to find a good AA (or similar) group and get needed help. Why denounce them for seeking and receiving help where it can be found.

 

I don't know if it's still meeting or not, but in a small city about a half hour from here there used to be a specifically Christian AA group that met in a church basement. I know of several Christians who gained much help going through the rough waters of the first year or so being sober through that group. They no longer need such meetings, their families are intact, they are solid members of their churches. While they will talk of the help that came through those AA meetings, each one of them gives all glory to God and credits the Lord with saving them, from damnation as well as alcoholism.

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How is that? What you have said are reasons for not attending AA also applies to stores, businesses, workplaces and such.

 

Which is it, do we pick and choose which places we think we should separate from but excuse those we want to use, or do we apply the principle to all things?

When a person sees another going into a Walmart, that person doesn't automatically assume the person is going for alcohol or cigarettes.  Same with Gas Stations.  The only reason won would have cause to think a person is going in for alcohol or tobacco is if that one drinks or smokes and the other know it.

With AA and Al-Anon, it is quite different.  The people are required to state they have a dependence on alcohol or a family member does.  If Walmart or a Gas Station makes it a rule that one must admit he has a dependency on alcohol or tobacco before getting groceries or gas, you might have a valid argument.

Right now, you don't.

The Word of God tells us that if we are saved we are in the world, but not of the world.  AA and Al-Anon are of the world and expect their members to identify themselves as dependent upon AA and Al-Anon.    "Hi, my name is ________.  I am an alcoholic.

They have so many of these dependencies groups popping up all over.  They don't point to God.  You can't preach Christ in those groups.  Years ago, I was invited to speak at an AA held at a Methodist Church less than a mile from my house.  When I got there that night, I was met at the door with instructions on things I could not mention.  I could not tell the group that Salvation through faith alone in Christ alone was what they all needed.  I was to substitute any mention of God or Jesus Christ with Higher Power.  I was to base my message on the 12 Steps Program, but to leave the Gospel Truth out altogether.

Needless to say, I didn't even walk through the doors.  I told them I could not speak that night and walked back to my house.  They wanted a message of deliverance from alcohol through good works and false gods.  I wouldn't betray my God to preach theirs.

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Well, if you think a person should turn down help that in no way has ever harmed any Christians testimony that I've ever known or encountered, you are free to think so.

 

Tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of Christians have found help and they now liver sober for Christ.

 

When one says "I'm an alcoholic", what they are doing is acknowledging that alcohol is a very real temptation for them and they understand that if they give in to the temptation to have just a sip or just a drink, they will be that alcoholic. In the flesh we are all sinners as long as we are on this earth, whether our toughest to deal with sins have to do with alcohol, lying, lust, gossip or whatever the case may be.

 

In any event, if you feel so strongly about this matter you really should work to provide a Christian alternative that will be there to help Christians needing a helping hand in this area. In the meantime, you shouldn't think ill of those who receive help elsewhere.

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When a person sees another going into a Walmart, that person doesn't automatically assume the person is going for alcohol or cigarettes.  Same with Gas Stations.  The only reason won would have cause to think a person is going in for alcohol or tobacco is if that one drinks or smokes and the other know it.

With AA and Al-Anon, it is quite different.  The people are required to state they have a dependence on alcohol or a family member does.  If Walmart or a Gas Station makes it a rule that one must admit he has a dependency on alcohol or tobacco before getting groceries or gas, you might have a valid argument.

Right now, you don't.

The Word of God tells us that if we are saved we are in the world, but not of the world.  AA and Al-Anon are of the world and expect their members to identify themselves as dependent upon AA and Al-Anon.    "Hi, my name is ________.  I am an alcoholic.

They have so many of these dependencies groups popping up all over.  They don't point to God.  You can't preach Christ in those groups.  Years ago, I was invited to speak at an AA held at a Methodist Church less than a mile from my house.  When I got there that night, I was met at the door with instructions on things I could not mention.  I could not tell the group that Salvation through faith alone in Christ alone was what they all needed.  I was to substitute any mention of God or Jesus Christ with Higher Power.  I was to base my message on the 12 Steps Program, but to leave the Gospel Truth out altogether.

Needless to say, I didn't even walk through the doors.  I told them I could not speak that night and walked back to my house.  They wanted a message of deliverance from alcohol through good works and false gods.  I wouldn't betray my God to preach theirs.

 

I am sorry that you had that experience in a 12 Step Program, SFIC.  I have never had that experience in my area.  As I stated, there are many believer's meetings all over the Cleveland area.  Some meetings are held in Baptist churches.  In fact, my woman's meeting is held in the afternoon in a Baptist church.  I have never been told to not talk about Jesus Christ.  Ever!  No one that I know has never been told that, either.  The 12 Step Program is different around the country.  I have been told that by people who travel and go to meetings in other states in the USA.  I was told about Jesus Christ being the only "Higher Power" that mattered as He is God, in an Al-Anon meeting years ago.  It is too bad you had to experience what you did. 

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Well, if you think a person should turn down help that in no way has ever harmed any Christians testimony that I've ever known or encountered, you are free to think so.

 

Tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of Christians have found help and they now liver sober for Christ.

 

When one says "I'm an alcoholic", what they are doing is acknowledging that alcohol is a very real temptation for them and they understand that if they give in to the temptation to have just a sip or just a drink, they will be that alcoholic. In the flesh we are all sinners as long as we are on this earth, whether our toughest to deal with sins have to do with alcohol, lying, lust, gossip or whatever the case may be.

 

In any event, if you feel so strongly about this matter you really should work to provide a Christian alternative that will be there to help Christians needing a helping hand in this area. In the meantime, you shouldn't think ill of those who receive help elsewhere.

 

In my area, people state they are a "Recovered Alcoholic."  Big difference...

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Well, if you think a person should turn down help that in no way has ever harmed any Christians testimony that I've ever known or encountered, you are free to think so.

 

Tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of Christians have found help and they now liver sober for Christ.

 

When one says "I'm an alcoholic", what they are doing is acknowledging that alcohol is a very real temptation for them and they understand that if they give in to the temptation to have just a sip or just a drink, they will be that alcoholic. In the flesh we are all sinners as long as we are on this earth, whether our toughest to deal with sins have to do with alcohol, lying, lust, gossip or whatever the case may be.

 

In any event, if you feel so strongly about this matter you really should work to provide a Christian alternative that will be there to help Christians needing a helping hand in this area. In the meantime, you shouldn't think ill of those who receive help elsewhere.

NO, what they are saying is "I am a drunkard.  They are identifying themselves as to being something that they refuse to give over to God.
 

al·co·hol·ic
ˌalkəˈhôlik,-ˈhäl-/
adjective
adjective: alcoholic
  1. 1.
    containing or relating to alcoholic liquor.
    "beer is the favorite alcoholic drink"
    synonyms: intoxicating, inebriating, containing alcohol, fermented; More
    formalspirituous
    "alcoholic drinks"
    • caused by the excessive consumption of alcohol.
      "alcoholic liver disease"
    • suffering from alcoholism.
      "his alcoholic daughter was the cause of his anxiety"
noun
noun: alcoholic; plural noun: alcoholics
1.
a person suffering from alcoholism.
synonyms: dipsomaniac, drunk, drunkard, heavy/hard/serious drinker, problem drinker, binge drinker, alcohol abuser, person with a drinking problem;



 

My Bible tells me when one comes to Christ, he is a new creature.  old things are passed away, behold all things are become new.  You can't produce one Scripture where Jesus heals someone only partially and leaves them in that state.  God doesn't save a drunk and leave him a drunk.  God doesn't save a drug addict and leave him a drug addict.

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NO, what they are saying is "I am a drunkard.  They are identifying themselves as to being something that they refuse to give over to God.
 

al·co·hol·ic
ˌalkəˈhôlik,-ˈhäl-/
adjective
adjective: alcoholic
  1. 1.
    containing or relating to alcoholic liquor.
    "beer is the favorite alcoholic drink"
    synonyms: intoxicating, inebriating, containing alcohol, fermented; More
    formalspirituous
    "alcoholic drinks"
    • caused by the excessive consumption of alcohol.
      "alcoholic liver disease"
    • suffering from alcoholism.
      "his alcoholic daughter was the cause of his anxiety"
noun
noun: alcoholic; plural noun: alcoholics
1.
a person suffering from alcoholism.
synonyms: dipsomaniac, drunk, drunkard, heavy/hard/serious drinker, problem drinker, binge drinker, alcohol abuser, person with a drinking problem;



 

My Bible tells me when one comes to Christ, he is a new creature.  old things are passed away, behold all things are become new.  You can't produce one Scripture where Jesus heals someone only partially and leaves them in that state.  God doesn't save a drunk and leave him a drunk.  God doesn't save a drug addict and leave him a drug addict.

By what you are saying here we should all be fully healthy, healed of all things, and walking in perfect holiness. This sounds like a combination of the health and wealth preaching and the holiness teachings.

 

If the Lord granted you full healing and freedom from sin when you were saved then that's something to truly praise God for. However, for most of us the Lord doesn't work that way in our lives.

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No, we would find our self doing as the early church did.

 

Ac 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Ac 2:42 ¶ And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Ac 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Ac 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Ac 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Ac 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Ac 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
 
Yet few there be that wants to do that, they fear they just find it boring.

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Ephesians 4:22 (KJV)
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Colossians 3:9 (KJV)
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

How is telling people that you are an alcoholic putting off the old man? It isn't. It is instead, clinging to the old man.

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Everyone:

 

There is no way one can "Christianize" a program which originated from pagan/occult roots.  If you doubt that AA and all its 12 Step Recovery religion subsidiaries started from the pagan/occult practices of Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob Smith, begin by checking out some of the literature that is published by AA itself and compare what they say with what God says in His Word. 

 

Getting "help" (for a "sin" now labeled a "disease" by the 12 Step Recovery religions) from any "program" that is clearly the antithesis of God's Word, is "yoking yourself with unbelievers" (2 Cor. 6:14-18).   That's not the same as going shopping at Walmart.  We are IN the world, not OF it.  Biblical separation does not mean a Christian should avoid sinners, but instead, must avoid being a partaker in the sinner's "works." (Ephesians 4:17-29; 5:11; 1 Peter 4:1-4; 1 John 2:15-17)

 

Alcoholic is a euphemism for drunkard.  Alcoholism is a SIN not a "disease".  Drinking alcohol is a behavior that has "physical" consequences and does cause "physical" diseases.  AA and its other 12 Step Recovery religion subsidiaries have the drunkard in "bondage" to having a "disease" from which they will not "recover".  Those in AA always introduce themselves as "alcoholics".  They are all known as "recovering" alcoholics.  Deliverance from drunkenness and "addiction" is found only in Jesus Christ, not in a "program"

Edited by LindaR

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