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How To Overcome An Addiction To Mountain Dew


JerryNumbers

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Sorry, but I don't accept that alcoholism is a disease or an allergy.  Unless now they sell diseases and allergies in bottles at stores specifically designed for them....And it's the only disease or allergy God calls unwise...(other than STDs, which are obvious results of sin on someone's part).  If it's a disease, we need to quit using scripture to point out that it's wrong...

 

And, it is easy, actually, to become addicted to something.  An addiction is something that one has ingested in some way to the point that going without it causes pain or discomfort to the body, because the body has become dependent on it  (I don't know about anyone else, but my body sure isn't dependent on my allergies  :biggrin: ).  When I was younger (in my teens) I was addicted to cigarettes.  Smokers are. That's why it's hard for them to quit. Not that it is a disease - they are addicted to the nicotine and other substances in the cigarette.  When they don't get it, the body revolts until they can soothe that revolt with a drag of the smoke into their lungs.  It takes time to get over, but it can be done.  

 

Same thing with alcohol.  When someone drinks it to the point where they are an alcoholic, their body becomes dependent on it.  When they try to stop, it causes problems with their bodies.  Even as it destroys their bodies.  It can be beaten, and it has been by many.  

 

I believe it is possible to have an allergy to what is in booze, but I don't believe that being an alcoholic is an allergy. It is sin. And that isn't because I'm IFB (besides that - it isn't only IFB that call it sin...). It's because God says to stay away from it.  

 

My Dad had diabetes and cancer.  Neither of which he did to himself.  Alcoholics become that way because they drink. And then they drink too much. And then they can't stop because they are addicted.  It's not a disease.  Trying to say that it's a disease eases the guilt of the person but it's disingenuous at best.

 

I would agree, we need to be careful of throwing around the word addiction.  But, sad to say, because we are in the flesh, it can at times be easy to be addicted to something.  There are substances (like caffeine, nicotine, alcohol - even sugar) that when overused can cause a dependency.  That's an addiction.   "A strong and harmful need to regularly have or do something..."  Gambling. Alcohol.  And a whole host of other things.

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Sorry, but I don't accept that alcoholism is a disease or an allergy.  Unless now they sell diseases and allergies in bottles at stores specifically designed for them....And it's the only disease or allergy God calls unwise...(other than STDs, which are obvious results of sin on someone's part).  If it's a disease, we need to quit using scripture to point out that it's wrong...

 

And, it is easy, actually, to become addicted to something.  An addiction is something that one has ingested in some way to the point that going without it causes pain or discomfort to the body, because the body has become dependent on it  (I don't know about anyone else, but my body sure isn't dependent on my allergies  :biggrin: ).  When I was younger (in my teens) I was addicted to cigarettes.  Smokers are. That's why it's hard for them to quit. Not that it is a disease - they are addicted to the nicotine and other substances in the cigarette.  When they don't get it, the body revolts until they can soothe that revolt with a drag of the smoke into their lungs.  It takes time to get over, but it can be done.  

 

Same thing with alcohol.  When someone drinks it to the point where they are an alcoholic, their body becomes dependent on it.  When they try to stop, it causes problems with their bodies.  Even as it destroys their bodies.  It can be beaten, and it has been by many.  

 

I believe it is possible to have an allergy to what is in booze, but I don't believe that being an alcoholic is an allergy. It is sin. And that isn't because I'm IFB (besides that - it isn't only IFB that call it sin...). It's because God says to stay away from it.  

 

My Dad had diabetes and cancer.  Neither of which he did to himself.  Alcoholics become that way because they drink. And then they drink too much. And then they can't stop because they are addicted.  It's not a disease.  Trying to say that it's a disease eases the guilt of the person but it's disingenuous at best.

 

I would agree, we need to be careful of throwing around the word addiction.  But, sad to say, because we are in the flesh, it can at times be easy to be addicted to something.  There are substances (like caffeine, nicotine, alcohol - even sugar) that when overused can cause a dependency.  That's an addiction.   "A strong and harmful need to regularly have or do something..."  Gambling. Alcohol.  And a whole host of other things.

 

Then, I suppose Mountain Dew can become a disease or allergy if too much is taken?  I am just so tired of the medical world putting labels on things.  Who makes out on that?  The FDA.  Every year a new label comes out.  There are so many doctors making a killing on drugs to cure this and that.  Many times a doctor will put an alcoholic on medication.  Usually an anti-depressant, which, IMO is totally unnecessary.  They are substituting one drug for another.  How is one medication going to help someone who is self medicating?  It can't.  It is like putting a bandaid on a broken bone.  It doesn't work that way.  While you might not agree with what I am saying, HC... I have numerous books from well known doctors in this field.  I spent five years of my first marriage married to a functioning drunk.  I have spent numerous years after, in Al-Anon meetings and getting my hands on all kinds of resources to help me understand this problem.  That would be a total of 26 years.  BTW, Al-Anon was key in leading me to the Lord Jesus Christ... as other 12 Step Programs are for people.  Also, I suppose over-eating is a sin, as well?  It must be b/c it causes numerous health problems.  The recovered alcoholics that I know, would disagree with you on this topic.  What you said below is correct, though:

"I believe it is possible to have an allergy to what is in booze, but I don't believe that being an alcoholic is an allergy. It is sin. And that isn't because I'm IFB (besides that - it isn't only IFB that call it sin...). It's because God says to stay away from it."

That is correct.  It is what is in the alcohol that causes the allergy.  That is a medically proven fact.

I won't labor anymore on this, as I know IFB's will not see science as it is.  If you say it is a sin.  Well, it is.  :icon_rolleyes:  God warns about alcohol all over the Bible.  I am the first person to point these scriptures out to people who think, drinking moderately is alright.  No, it isn't.  Alcohol is poison, as are many things on this sinned filled planet.
  

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Then, I suppose Mountain Dew can become a disease or allergy if too much is taken?  I am just so tired of the medical world putting labels on things.  Who makes out on that?  The FDA.  Every year a new label comes out.  There are so many doctors making a killing on drugs to cure this and that.  Many times a doctor will put an alcoholic on medication.  Usually an anti-depressant, which, IMO is totally unnecessary.  They are substituting one drug for another.  How is one medication going to help someone who is self medicating?  It can't.  It is like putting a bandaid on a broken bone.  It doesn't work that way.  While you might not agree with what I am saying, HC... I have numerous books from well known doctors in this field.  I spent five years of my first marriage married to a functioning drunk.  I have spent numerous years after, in Al-Anon meetings and getting my hands on all kinds of resources to help me understand this problem.  That would be a total of 26 years.  BTW, Al-Anon was key in leading me to the Lord Jesus Christ... as other 12 Step Programs are for people.  Also, I suppose over-eating is a sin, as well?  It must be b/c it causes numerous health problems.  The recovered alcoholics that I know, would disagree with you on this topic.  What you said below is correct, though:

"I believe it is possible to have an allergy to what is in booze, but I don't believe that being an alcoholic is an allergy. It is sin. And that isn't because I'm IFB (besides that - it isn't only IFB that call it sin...). It's because God says to stay away from it."

That is correct.  It is what is in the alcohol that causes the allergy.  That is a medically proven fact.

I won't labor anymore on this, as I know IFB's will not see science as it is.  If you say it is a sin.  Well, it is.  :icon_rolleyes:  God warns about alcohol all over the Bible.  I am the first person to point these scriptures out to people who think, drinking moderately is alright.  No, it isn't.  Alcohol is poison, as are many things on this sinned filled planet.
  

Ok - for starters, I wasn't trying to start an argument. I was stating my opinion, as has everyone else.  Even doctors go by opinion, and just because they say it is so doesn't make it so.  No matter how many books are written about something.  There are a lot of medically proven facts that have been disproven, and this idea about alcoholism being an allergy or disease is relatively recent.  

 

And, please, stop dissing IFBs.  You are broadbrushing when you claim "IFBs will not see science as fact. If you say it is sin. Well it is." Then you go on to say God warns about it...why would God warn about it if isn't sin (in fact, you've said before that it is...).  I don't say it's sin.  God lays down principles about alcohol.  And I do see science as it is.  I'm quite fond of it, in fact.  But remember the Bible talks about "science falsely so called."  Man perverts the truths found in God's Word - much of what the world calls science today isn't really...

 

I, too, have had drunkards in my life (drunkard being what the Bible uses, and what they were called before conditioning to call it a disease began), most noticeably my biological father. I know what it is to live with one. He was also a functioning drunk...but he was also a mean one. One I watched try to kill my mom. And there are others - one who apologized for hitting me with an ashtray meant for my mother.  Another who molested a very good friend. Another who killed my best friend while drunk.  And the list could go on.  So, I do know what it's like having them in one's life.  And being scarred by them.  That doesn't lessen your experience with it.  And I'm so glad you were able to get help.  No way was I intending to insult you by stating that I don't agree that it's an allergy or disease.  And, yes, gluttony would be sin.  The Bible specifies that as being wrong as well.  Over-indulgence in anything is.

 

I don't believe Mountain Dew can become an allergy or disease if too much is taken.  Addiction, yes, because of the caffeine. Tear up the stomach, yes, because of the caffeine and the seltzer.  

 

I'm sure you do have lots of material on it.  And kudos to you for searching out what you needed for help.  I know others who have done that, too.  But the material they have doesn't agree with what you have.  :icon_smile:   That's the medical world.  Very rarely consistent, often wrong, but sorely needed!

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Ok - for starters, I wasn't trying to start an argument. I was stating my opinion, as has everyone else.  Even doctors go by opinion, and just because they say it is so doesn't make it so.  No matter how many books are written about something.  There are a lot of medically proven facts that have been disproven, and this idea about alcoholism being an allergy or disease is relatively recent.  

 

And, please, stop dissing IFBs.  You are broadbrushing when you claim "IFBs will not see science as fact. If you say it is sin. Well it is." Then you go on to say God warns about it...why would God warn about it if isn't sin (in fact, you've said before that it is...).  I don't say it's sin.  God lays down principles about alcohol.  And I do see science as it is.  I'm quite fond of it, in fact.  But remember the Bible talks about "science falsely so called."  Man perverts the truths found in God's Word - much of what the world calls science today isn't really...

 

I, too, have had drunkards in my life (drunkard being what the Bible uses, and what they were called before conditioning to call it a disease began), most noticeably my biological father. I know what it is to live with one. He was also a functioning drunk...but he was also a mean one. One I watched try to kill my mom. And there are others - one who apologized for hitting me with an ashtray meant for my mother.  Another who molested a very good friend. Another who killed my best friend while drunk.  And the list could go on.  So, I do know what it's like having them in one's life.  And being scarred by them.  That doesn't lessen your experience with it.  And I'm so glad you were able to get help.  No way was I intending to insult you by stating that I don't agree that it's an allergy or disease.  And, yes, gluttony would be sin.  The Bible specifies that as being wrong as well.  Over-indulgence in anything is.

 

I don't believe Mountain Dew can become an allergy or disease if too much is taken.  Addiction, yes, because of the caffeine. Tear up the stomach, yes, because of the caffeine and the seltzer.  

 

I'm sure you do have lots of material on it.  And kudos to you for searching out what you needed for help.  I know others who have done that, too.  But the material they have doesn't agree with what you have.  :icon_smile:   That's the medical world.  Very rarely consistent, often wrong, but sorely needed!

 

HC, I knew you before you were a mod on OB, and I must say that your posts are quite different than they were before you became a mod.  You come across as very demonstrative, in your posts, about anything that you don't agree with.  You end up becoming the Supreme High Commander... and I don't say that with respect.  OB is not the military.  You treat your job, as mod, like you are a sergeant in the Marine Corps.

I accept what you believe is true, and have no problem with that.  Everyone has an opinion.  I am so sorry that you had to endure what you did at the hands of a drunk.  Sadly, that drunk was your dad.  The only reason that I use IFB, is that the only other religion that I have to compare it to is the RCC.  And, they are very supportive of AA and all 12 step programs.  I know for a fact, that IFB's have discouraged many people from going to AA meetings and have went as far as to call it a cult.  It is preached against at many pulpits.  Pastors will say a person needs more self control.  Well, obviously, drunks don't have self control.  I have seen many friends from high school, sober these days, b/c of Alcoholics Anonymous.  Not everyone can go to an IFB church where someone will open up to them about their alcohol addiction and abuse.  In fact, I know people who, when telling their testimonies... won't devulge things for fear that they will be judged.

Now, as for diseases?  My dad suffered long and hard with cancer for 6 years.  What ended up killing him was the chemotherapy he took.  It perforated a hole in his stomach where he vomited blood from his mouth, thus ending up in a coma for two days.  He contracted cancer in a steel plant where he worked.  I had a pastor tell the flock, at my old IFB church, that he believes all illnesses are sins.  How exactly did my father sin while exposed to chemicals at work?  Christians throw the "sin" word around way too much.  It is a big cop-out and word used to explain away anything.  That is one of the biggests problems I have in Christianity.  Instead of drawing people in with love and compassion, many people overuse the "sin" word which ends up driving away many people.  This has been my experience in the IFB church.  I can only say IFB, as I only know the RCC and "sin" was never spoken of in Vatican II.  A whole new world opened up to me when I stepped into the IFB church.  Sadly, some things should have never been said from the pulpit nor from the saints.  If a pastor wants to talk about "self control"... maybe he can start with his flock. 

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Addiction is about control.

It is something that controls you.

Addiction can cause health problems, but it is primarily spiritual and emotional.

If it was purely physical then addiction to gambling, excitement (thrillseeking), and pornography would not be possible.

And victory over addiction by spiritual means would not be possible.

That is not to say that there are no physical aspects - physical withdrawal symptoms are very real.
But the actual addiction itself is a spiritual and emotional thing.
What you are addicted to EFFECTS you in different ways, but the addiction itself is at its base an unwillingness to submit to God's leading, guidance, and commands.

You can be addicted to things which are not sinful in themselves - car magazines for instance. At times I have bought and read car magazines to the exclusion of reading God's Word. Bought each new magazine, read it cover to cover, then again several times, the whole time not reading or thinking about God's Word, and waiting, waiting, waiting for the next addition to come out.
I was addicted.
I only had victory over it when I acknowledged that it was taking precedence over the things of God.

Addiction often causes disease, but it is not disease itself.

Ultimately it is the 'disease' of idolatry - putting something in control of your life other than God.

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HC, I knew you before you were a mod on OB, and I must say that your posts are quite different than they were before you became a mod.  You come across as very demonstrative, in your posts, about anything that you don't agree with.  You end up becoming the Supreme High Commander... and I don't say that with respect.  OB is not the military.  You treat your job, as mod, like you are a sergeant in the Marine Corps.  Knock it off, candlelight.  I'm really getting tired of you bashing me about being a mod and the way I do my "job" - even if I'm only commenting.  I knew you before I was a mod, too, and it appears to me since you've come back that you take everything someone disagrees with you about personally, when it is meant in to way so to be.  I've had to make sure that my posts to you contain plenty of caveats that I'm not meaning to be insulting, etc. - and you still take offense.  Unnecessarily.

I accept what you believe is true, and have no problem with that. Right.  Everyone has an opinion.  I am so sorry that you had to endure what you did at the hands of a drunk.  Sadly, that drunk was your dad.  The only reason that I use IFB, is that the only other religion that I have to compare it to is the RCC. Using IFB as example is one thing. Dissing them is another. And, they are very supportive of AA and all 12 step programs.  I know for a fact, that IFB's have discouraged many people from going to AA meetings and have went as far as to call it a cult.  It is preached against at many pulpits.  Pastors will say a person needs more self control.  Well, obviously, drunks don't have self control.  I have seen many friends from high school, sober these days, b/c of Alcoholics Anonymous.  Not everyone can go to an IFB church where someone will open up to them about their alcohol addiction and abuse.  In fact, I know people who, when telling their testimonies... won't devulge things for fear that they will be judged. I would agree with that, but it most certainly does not just take place in the IFB.

Now, as for diseases?  My dad suffered long and hard with cancer for 6 years.  What ended up killing him was the chemotherapy he took.  It perforated a hole in his stomach where he vomited blood from his mouth, thus ending up in a coma for two days.  He contracted cancer in a steel plant where he worked.  I had a pastor tell the flock, at my old IFB church, that he believes all illnesses are sins. I've heard that preached before, and it's completely unbiblical.  Rather, it is the fact that sin is in the world and our bodies decay as a result that is at fault. Not necessarily personal sin at all! I'm sorry you had to hear that - compounding grief with that nonsense!  How exactly did my father sin while exposed to chemicals at work?  Christians throw the "sin" word around way too much. Some do, yes. It is a big cop-out and word used to explain away anything.  That is one of the biggests problems I have in Christianity.  Instead of drawing people in with love and compassion, many people overuse the "sin" word which ends up driving away many people.  This has been my experience in the IFB church.  I can only say IFB, as I only know the RCC and "sin" was never spoken of in Vatican II.  A whole new world opened up to me when I stepped into the IFB church. I understand that completely.  But to imply that all IFB are like that isn't right - that was my point. Sadly, some things should have never been said from the pulpit nor from the saints.  If a pastor wants to talk about "self control"... maybe he can start with his flock.  

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There is a saying that goes, "If you have to control your drinking, it is already out of control."

It is true what you said above, DaveW, however addiction is not merely spiritual.  It is also physical.  A drunk has to have "his/her" fix.  It becomes a physical addiction with "hand/mouth" fixation.  The same is said with smokers and addicts.

You didn't respond to how drunks are treated in church, though, regarding the 12 Step Program of AA?  You gave your problem to the Lord Jesus Christ.  He took it away.  Did you also have moral support, at church, during this time? 
 

Much of what frustrated me with the situation, at my old IFB church, was the fact that I had a ministry working with homeless women.  Besides the pastor, another couple, and my husband, I got no support with this ministry, at all.  All I got were complaints.  I worked the bus ministry and served them breakfast in the kitchen every Sunday morning.  The majority of the saints, in the church, talked badly about these women and couldn't be bothered with saying a kind word or two to them.  They treated them like they had leprosy.  I didn't participate in the "chats" during the church council meetings.  I was excluded and wasn't even asked to participate.  Many of the people talked about these women, behind their backs.  I was asked to take the job, b/c at one time, I was a single mom.  But there for the grace of God, I didn't end up homeless b/c I had a good job.  I was extremely disappointed with the treatment the church folk gave or didn't give to these women.  That is how I was "burned" by the IFB church, HC.  I couldn't understand how Christian charity was not extended to these poor women.  And, what is worse... they knew it.  :( Shortly after we left the church to go back home to our first IFB church, the ministry folded.  The church extended the nursery for the babies and sadly, it got no use.  The bus ministry also stopped.  I don't know any of the details, nor to I care to know.  
 

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There is a saying that goes, "If you have to control your drinking, it is already out of control."

It is true what you said above, DaveW, however addiction is not merely spiritual.  It is also physical.  A drunk has to have "his/her" fix.  It becomes a physical addiction with "hand/mouth" fixation.  The same is said with smokers and addicts.

You didn't respond to how drunks are treated in church, though, regarding the 12 Step Program of AA?  You gave your problem to the Lord Jesus Christ.  He took it away.  Did you also have moral support, at church, during this time? 
 

Much of what frustrated me with the situation, at my old IFB church, was the fact that I had a ministry working with homeless women.  Besides the pastor, another couple, and my husband, I got no support with this ministry, at all.  All I got were complaints.  I worked the bus ministry and served them breakfast in the kitchen every Sunday morning.  The majority of the saints, in the church, talked badly about these women and couldn't be bothered with saying a kind word or two to them.  They treated them like they had leprosy.  I didn't participate in the "chats" during the church council meetings.  I was excluded and wasn't even asked to participate.  Many of the people talked about these women, behind their backs.  I was asked to take the job, b/c at one time, I was a single mom.  But there for the grace of God, I didn't end up homeless b/c I had a good job.  I was extremely disappointed with the treatment the church folk gave or didn't give to these women.  That is how I was "burned" by the IFB church, HC.  I couldn't understand how Christian charity was not extended to these poor women.  And, what is worse... they knew it.  :( Shortly after we left the church to go back home to our first IFB church, the ministry folded.  The church extended the nursery for the babies and sadly, it got no use.  The bus ministry also stopped.  I don't know any of the details, nor to I care to know.  
 

That is heartbreaking!

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Honesty seems to be key on OB, therefore I was just saying what I believe.  I will stop, though.  I didn't think you were being "caveat" with me.  I am sorry you feel that way.  I take things personally b/c this board is not the same as I remember it to be.  Most of the old crew is gone.  Many of the people, on this board, are harse and I have seen a lot of dissention rather than discussion.  I will "diss" as you call... it when it is called for.  Although, "diss" is too strong a word for me to use.  I have always been blunt.  I am not a Cookie Cutter Christian and believe honesty is best... even if it is sometimes a little brutal.  I know many IFB's who have had drug and alcohol problems, and have told me personally, they won't speak of it in their testimonies b/c they don't want to be judged by the saints.  That is a fact that I know.

As for the pastor who speaks this?  I don't think you know him or of him, unless he is from the State of OH.  He is a small fish in a big pond.  I am not talking about all IFB's, HC.  I am talking about the ones that I have met, personally, and I make it a point not to associate with them... due to their lack of passion.  I am a passionate person.  I have a huge passion for souls to get saved, as most people do, however, I believe in accepting people where they are... not what they will become.  We are all "Diamonds in the Rough."  God does not expect perfection, and neither should we.

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You can overcome any addiction by purely for spiritual means.
There is a physical side of course but it is the result, not the cause of the addiction.
I didn't respond to the AA thing because I didn't think you asked anything about it - to me you stated an opinion.
I have no problem with addiction programs, have attended some workshops, have a friend who runs one.
Personally I think AA has problems, mostly due to the fact that they not biblical in their approach but are instead a bit 'churchy'. They do some good though.
I see way too much condemnation of addicts instead of Biblical support, but also way too much unbiblical 'support' that bandaids the problem rather than addressing it.

I got no support nor judgement - but I also sought no support from people.

And they say that smoking is one of the hardest to break. I smoked when I was younger.
I tried to quit many times. For my girlfriend, for the health, for the cost. The withdrawals are real.
The thing that gave me victory was realising that it dishonoured the Lord.
The withdrawals became unimportant - still felt them, but that didn't matter now.

Addiction - all addiction - is primarily a spiritual issue. There are physical effects both immediate and long term, and addiction often causes disease, but addiction itself is spiritual and emotional.

Genuine spiritual support is often neglected, but of the greatest help.

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That is heartbreaking!

 

Yes, it is HC.  I am still recovering from this, emotionally, b/c I am saddened that the ministry folded and so did the bus ministry.  What is worse than that?  My 22 year old son was so torn up by this, that he chooses not to go to church now, unless it is some kind of event.  It affected my personal life, as well.  My son is a Wayward Child.  I taught my son to help the homeless and be kind to others.  He learned more from his schooling than he did in this church.  I grew up with snobs.  It is amazing the snobs I met at this church.  And they live where I live?  LOL!  Praise God my IFB church is not like this.  God is good!  Oh, and one more thing.  I was a liason to the pregnancy counseling center in my hometown.  Every year, before Mother's Day, I sent out baby bottles for people to put in a little change in, so that the pregnant women at the center could use them for "Baby Bucks" in exchange for classes they took on parenting.  We served the whole westside of my city.  Muslim women would come in, too.  The gospel was presented to them along with counseling.  Sadly, the crisis center closed b/c people aren't willing to give just a little.  And, I grew up in a very affluent neighborhood.  The majority of the people in my old IFB church complained about a few coins and did not give, although they thought nothing about buying a new SUV.  Very sad.

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Honesty seems to be key on OB, therefore I was just saying what I believe. I will stop, though. I didn't think you were being "caveat" with me. I am sorry you feel that way. I take things personally b/c this board is not the same as I remember it to be. Most of the old crew is gone. Many of the people, on this board, are harse and I have seen a lot of dissention rather than discussion. I will "diss" as you call... it when it is called for. Although, "diss" is too strong a word for me to use. I have always been blunt. I am not a Cookie Cutter Christian and believe honesty is best... even if it is sometimes a little brutal. I know many IFB's who have had drug and alcohol problems, and have told me personally, they won't speak of it in their testimonies b/c they don't want to be judged by the saints. That is a fact that I know.

As for the pastor who speaks this? I don't think you know him or of him, unless he is from the State of OH. He is a small fish in a big pond. I am not talking about all IFB's, HC. I am talking about the ones that I have met, personally, and I make it a point not to associate with them... due to their lack of passion. I am a passionate person. I have a huge passion for souls to get saved, as most people do, however, I believe in accepting people where they are... not what they will become. We are all "Diamonds in the Rough." God does not expect perfection, and neither should we.
So you can be honest but I can't? Because if you are going to chide me for posts where I don't agree with you than I can't really, unless I want to be accused yet again. And I'm blunt, too. If you can be, so can we all. SWIM?

I'm sorry - caveat simply means adding a short explanation or apology or something like "I don't mean to offend..." That type thing.

I am so sorry that your son is a casualty of that. Will have to pray more for him.

You are correct that we can't expect perfection. No-one on here does, even if at times it seems like it. Since none if us are perfect, sometimes we all can be harsh, or temperamental, etc. In a case like that, it's goid to remember we are all fallible.

I probably don't know that pastor but do know some like him...
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You can overcome any addiction by purely for spiritual means.
There is a physical side of course but it is the result, not the cause of the addiction.
I didn't respond to the AA thing because I didn't think you asked anything about it - to me you stated an opinion.
I have no problem with addiction programs, have attended some workshops, have a friend who runs one.
Personally I think AA has problems, mostly due to the fact that they not biblical in their approach but are instead a bit 'churchy'. They do some good though.
I see way too much condemnation of addicts instead of Biblical support, but also way too much unbiblical 'support' that bandaids the problem rather than addressing it.

I got no support nor judgement - but I also sought no support from people.

And they say that smoking is one of the hardest to break. I smoked when I was younger.
I tried to quit many times. For my girlfriend, for the health, for the cost. The withdrawals are real.
The thing that gave me victory was realising that it dishonoured the Lord.
The withdrawals became unimportant - still felt them, but that didn't matter now.

Addiction - all addiction - is primarily a spiritual issue. There are physical effects both immediate and long term, and addiction often causes disease, but addiction itself is spiritual and emotional.

Genuine spiritual support is often neglected, but of the greatest help.

I believe that, DaveW.  So there is help for me with my morning Caramel Frappes, a couple of times a week, from McDonalds.  :biggrin:  I agree with you about that physical result.  However, I have seen people go into the DT's right in an AA  meeting.  One of my brothers was court ordered to AA and I would attend some meetings with him for support.  I saw an ambulance come in for a person going through the DTs.

True, I didn't ask you.  AA was founded by Bill Wilson, who at one time, was a benign Atheist from Rhode Island.  He was never told about God until he walked into the rooms of "The Oxford Club" which was the Biblical program that preceded AA.  He never talked badly about God, either, before that.  He just didn't know anything about God.  That is why "Higher Power" is used in the 12 Step Programs.  Bill W. introduced it as a mere stepping stone.  However, the majority of people believe God to be their Higher Power.  Dr. Bob was the other co-founder.  He was raised Protestant.  Both men came to trust Jesus Christ as Personal Saviour in AA.  Many people do replace AA and other 12 Step Programs instead of church.  Although, many people, are saved, in those rooms, and end up going to Bible believing churches.  I live in the area of Cleveland, OH.  Although, Bill Wilson was a New York stock broker, gone poor during the Great Depression, he met Dr. Bob by chance (God Ordained) in Akron, OH.  The first meeting consisted of Bill and Bob.  In Cleveland, OH there are over 900 meetings.  Seriously, someone can't go wrong.  I believe the problem in AA is government control.  They state in their bylaws that they are self-sufficient, yet they are connected to the courts. That makes them accountable to the Federal Government.  To me, that is the biggest downfall.  

It is good to know that you got no judgment.  Sadly, I know some people who have been judged by believers.  Specifically the drunks and addicts from the woman's homeless shelter.  Although, the 12 Step Program has it's own kind of judgment.  People think the IFB church is difficult?  Try walking into a room with a group of people who automatically want you to join their "Program" as it is called.

Thankfully, I never had a smoking problem.  My brother is a chain smoker, too.  He started smoking when he was 10.  Praise the Lord, he stopped smoking Marijuana many years ago.  I would blow a gasket, if that were the case... b/c we live in the same house.

I agree about addiction being a spiritual problem.  I don't know how anyone can overcome anything w/o knowing Jesus Christ as Personal Saviour.  The physical part, I mentioned in my other post, and then the DT's which happen to hardcore drunks are those aspects I was referring to.  It was scary to see that happen one time.     :eek

I will say, again, the strongest Christians I know are the ones who have overcome addictions.  I started to grow in the Lord, when I saw an old friend in the grocery store in 1998.  It was a Thursday night.  I would have a couple glasses of wine, at the end of the week, to unwind.  Teaching in the inner city was often times exhausting.  I was going to get a bottle of wine off the shelf, and I ran into Eddy.  He asked me what I needed it for?  I thought that was very odd.  Eddy was always a rebel child... into drugs and alcohol during high school and college, which he didn't finish because of his addiction.  Anyway, long story short... I put the bottle of wine back on the shelf b/c Eddy told me that the Bible says it's evil.  Now this guy is reading the Bible?  I was in shock.  :icon_confused:   He got sober in the rooms of AA, years before, and was also attending Al-Anon meetings.  He was the first person, that I remember, who talked to me about the Lord Jesus Christ.  My problem was Tarot Cards, calling pyshic hotlines, going into stores that sold witchcraft material and meeting phyics in broken down buildings in the most seedy parts of town.  I had no idea what a fortune I paid for nothing.  I was searching for the truth in the most sick manner possible.  Eddie told me that it was very evil, bought me an NIV Bible, and showed me in the Book of Deuteronomy where God says how horrible it is.   I'll never forget what he said: "You are walking on the dark side."  That was my beginning of Jesus taking complete control of my life.  I made a Profession of Faith in March of 1998, but didn't get saved until May 10, 2003... Mother's Day Weekend.  

           

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As I said, to me that is the primary shortcoming of AA specifically - but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. (There are other programs that are more Christ based, and I am sure some AA are far more Christ centered than others).

And the DT's and other physical reactions to addiction are not the addiction. They are part of the control the addiction has over the person. Result not cause.

I have seen people driven away because of intolerance and lack of support, even when I have tried - the undercurrent that flows from others in church, even when you stop the overt, is so damaging.

And I have seen people who simply love their Drug master more than anything and anyone else.
To see a young single mother give up her child to the authorities because she doesn't love that child more than the drug is devastating (and yes that sounds harsh, but it is plain fact, not unloving 'judgement' - and not universally true). Let alone them hearing the Gospel repeatedly and yet refusing to submit to the Lord in the matter. :(

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