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1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?   Yes, there's always been men who had long hair, men who do as they wish & listen not to

That's fine - you go ahead and add works to salvation. As for me, I will stick with God when he says that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. You can not know the hearts of other

This isn't directed to you, SFIC, but its a general comment:   Always wondered why we need to wear a ribbon to show we are 'aware' of something. Who isn't aware of breast cancer, seriously?  Breast

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Actually, I would love to wear a head scarf or a wig, like Orthodox/Hasidic women.  I could cover my hair and not have to worry about upkeeping it, daily.  :icon_smile:   It is sad that the way the Jewish women dress, put IFB women to shame. 

If a man wears his hair long, like back in Biblical times, then he should act like the men during these times.  And, that isn't going to happen anytime soon.  :coverlaugh: 

Styles come and go these days.  Anymore, we just roll with the trends.  However, a women's head covering should be her hair, as ASOD mentioned above. 

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Jerry, I went to an IFB church for years, where a woman started a group of women wearing hats or bonnets.  It was so sweet.  They looked like Southern Bells.  Nice hats that matched their outfits.  In the black IFB churches in my area, the women also wear hats.

As for men wearing long hair?  My pastor told a man, with long hair once, that if he wanted to where his hair long he had to keep all the commandments that the Jews kept in the O.T.  Sadly, this man, was very worldly.  He and his wife drank and smoked a lot.  He died of a heart attack at an early age.  His wife has Cancer.  They wanted to have a street ministry.  My FIL, the deacon of my church, told them that they would have to clean up their act first.  That didn't go over too well with this couple. 

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dose anyone know why women don't cover there head anymore and men have longer hair today. back in the day they did. 1corinthians 11:4-7

Why do many women in churches today wear hairstyles that are very short (well above their shoulders and closely cropped to their neck)?  :hide:  Including many preacher's wives?  I think both questions have the same answer. 

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Why do many women in churches today wear hairstyles that are very short (well above their shoulders and closely cropped to their neck)?  :hide:  Including many preacher's wives?  I think both questions have the same answer. 

 

A lot of women don't want the maintenance, bzmomo7.  My hair isn't that long, as it gets so hard to style.  It swamps my face, if it gets too long.  That's why I would prefer a wig or a scarf.  The Muslim women, in my area, where beautiful scarves.  They sell them at a place I shop, called "Dressbarn."  I might just go with a head scarf, but I have to learn how to tie them up like the Jewish and Muslim women do.

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It was once generally accepted that long hair on a woman was her natural covering in the world and that she was to wear a specific other covering in the church. Other than some black churches, I don't see this too often anymore.

 

One thing I have noticed is more and more Christian women wearing their hair so short that from the back ones first impression would be that it was a man.

 

We have one family who attends our church and they have all daughters. It's always a pleasure to watch them all parade into the sanctuary with their pretty long hair and modest dress. I don't recall just how many daughters they have, 6, 7 or 8, I can't recall, and one is now married and she now lives away from here and attends her husbands church there.

 

We joke with their dad that the more daughters he has with long beautiful hair, the less hair he has!

 

In our church there is only one man who occasionally attends with long hair. All the other men who attend have short, manly hair.

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dose anyone know why women don't cover there head anymore and men have longer hair today. back in the day they did. 1corinthians 11:4-7

 

In addition to what ASOD said; in first century Greece (likely the rest of Rome as well), married women wore a head covering (like a scarf or a veil that didn't cover the face) as a display of respect, submission, and deference to their husbands. This was done primarily in official religious or political venues but also in some social gatherings as well. Unwed women did not wear such a head covering. Additionally, priestesses of some pagan gods like Aphrodite and Demeter often shaved their heads. In 1 Corinthians, Paul was dealing with a little bit of chaos and contention brought about by the coalescing of these factors. For whatever reason, women who would normally be expected to wear a head covering were not and it was causing strife in the church. This parallel isn't exact, but imagine if a man's wife today decided to stop wearing her wedding ring and start cutting her husband off in the middle of every point he tried to make in a Sunday School/Adult Bible Study class.

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A womans long hair shows submission.  Those women with short hair usually are the diminant one's in a marriage, or at least in thier own little group.

 

Long hair on men is defined as Absolom was mentionrd to have, and he too was rebellious.  Something to be said for the hairstyles.

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A lot of women don't want the maintenance, bzmomo7.  My hair isn't that long, as it gets so hard to style.  It swamps my face, if it gets too long.  That's why I would prefer a wig or a scarf.  The Muslim women, in my area, where beautiful scarves.  They sell them at a place I shop, called "Dressbarn."  I might just go with a head scarf, but I have to learn how to tie them up like the Jewish and Muslim women do.

I understand.  Additionally, I believe that what is "long" or "short" is definitely subjective as someone pointed out, as well.  However, that was also why I described "well above the shoulders and CLOSELY CROPPED TO THE NECK".  A woman certainly doesn't have to have a shaved head or a "military cut" to be considered to have short hair.  If one has definitively short hair; however, she cannot at the same time have long hair.  The question is whether or not short hair is the same as a "covering" that is described in the Bible.  There certainly is nothing wrong with wearing a head covering, no matter how conspicuous it might be these days.  I think that your first sentence is the answer why women no longer wear head coverings and also why they choose to wear very short hair styles.......because women don't want (the maintenance, etc. etc.....) It is because women make the conscious choice and few pastors ever (EVER!) venture into the muddy waters of preaching on the subject clearly.  I think they instead probably choose to leave it to the woman's father (if she isn't married) or her husband.  Our family's personal conviction is that never, at any time should someone see one of my daughters or sons from the side or back and question what gender they are....whether it be with hairstyle or clothing etc.  The men in my home do not wear feminine colors or jewelry (other than a wedding ring or watch), their hair is short and tapered to the neck....I will not say it has always been perfectly above the ears like a military cut--and this leaves quite a bit of leeway, in my opinion.  My daughters are taught likewise that they are not to look masculine.  We have asked our children, "Do you want someone to have to look closely at your, ahem, body shape etc. just to try and determine whether you are male or female?"  Yuck.  But that is just our personal conviction.

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Our family's personal conviction is that never, at any time should someone see one of my daughters or sons from the side or back and question what gender they are

Somebody else said this, but I don't think I've ever met a man who couldn't tell the difference between a man and a woman when looking at them from behind. Men and women tend to have differently shaped bodies.

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I understand.  Additionally, I believe that what is "long" or "short" is definitely subjective as someone pointed out, as well.  However, that was also why I described "well above the shoulders and CLOSELY CROPPED TO THE NECK".  A woman certainly doesn't have to have a shaved head or a "military cut" to be considered to have short hair.  If one has definitively short hair; however, she cannot at the same time have long hair.  The question is whether or not short hair is the same as a "covering" that is described in the Bible.  There certainly is nothing wrong with wearing a head covering, no matter how conspicuous it might be these days.  I think that your first sentence is the answer why women no longer wear head coverings and also why they choose to wear very short hair styles.......because women don't want (the maintenance, etc. etc.....) It is because women make the conscious choice and few pastors ever (EVER!) venture into the muddy waters of preaching on the subject clearly.  I think they instead probably choose to leave it to the woman's father (if she isn't married) or her husband.  Our family's personal conviction is that never, at any time should someone see one of my daughters or sons from the side or back and question what gender they are....whether it be with hairstyle or clothing etc.  The men in my home do not wear feminine colors or jewelry (other than a wedding ring or watch), their hair is short and tapered to the neck....I will not say it has always been perfectly above the ears like a military cut--and this leaves quite a bit of leeway, in my opinion.  My daughters are taught likewise that they are not to look masculine.  We have asked our children, "Do you want someone to have to look closely at your, ahem, body shape etc. just to try and determine whether you are male or female?"  Yuck.  But that is just our personal convict

you and me think the same way i have i wife but we do not have kids you never could have kid but i believe i women should have long hair my wife dose. because men and women today went to be the some.

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Somebody else said this, but I don't think I've ever met a man who couldn't tell the difference between a man and a woman when looking at them from behind. Men and women tend to have differently shaped bodies.

:scratchchin: Hmmm.  You must live in a "skinny person" state.  Believe me, my family has seen several people each year that fit that description.  If you CAN figure it out, after a few minutes......should you really have to look the person's body over that well......is the question!  Not to mention the idea of whether or not it is proper to do so--would be my point.

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:scratchchin: Hmmm.  You must live in a "skinny person" state.  Believe me, my family has seen several people each year that fit that description.  If you CAN figure it out, after a few minutes......should you really have to look the person's body over that well......is the question!  Not to mention the idea of whether or not it is proper to do so--would be my point.

No, I just live in a state where men and women are different.

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No, I just live in a state where men and women are different.

Well, enjoy it.  I see people who go to store in their pajamas, and men and women often dress gender neutral.  Men wear pink and purple proudly (not just the ones who are....full of "pride") Where women are just as tattooed as the men are (that is saying something in itself--arms, neck, face....it seems anything goes)  both genders wear the most outlandish adornments on their faces, I refuse to call it jewelry, and where people who are full-figured can confuse just about anyone when the women do not wear make-up, have a tapered man's haircut or butch, and men look as if they need a woman's garment on top more than some women do.  This, of course, is not everyone, but it isn't rare either.  It confuses my 5yr. old terribly.  I can say without a doubt, that I so much appreciate it when men who have long hair have the consideration to wear a beard. 

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You must be very young. Pink used to be a popular color for men.

I'm 41.  I grew up in the 80's, and in the farm community I grew up in, if a boy came to school wearing that......he'd been beat up.  Not that it was right, but that's what would have happened. 

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I'm 41.  I grew up in the 80's, and in the farm community I grew up in, if a boy came to school wearing that......he'd been beat up.  Not that it was right, but that's what would have happened. 

 

Funny, but I'm 47 and I grew up in the 80s in a farm community in rural Alabama. Even thought we were a rural farm community, we still had TV and Miami Vice still made pink a very popular color for men. It may look silly and dated now, but a pink t shirt under a white linen jacket with the sleeves rolled up, Docksiders (no socks), a pair of Ray Bans, and a couple days growth of beard was the epitome of cool at that time. I also had a couple of pink dress shirts.

 

What's more, my mother loves to tell the story of how, when she met my dad at a party in 1956, he was wearing a pink shirt.

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Funny, but I'm 47 and I grew up in the 80s in a farm community in rural Alabama. Even thought we were a rural farm community, we still had TV and Miami Vice still made pink a very popular color for men. It may look silly and dated now, but a pink t shirt under a white linen jacket with the sleeves rolled up, Docksiders (no socks), a pair of Ray Bans, and a couple days growth of beard was the epitome of cool at that time. I also had a couple of pink dress shirts.

 

What's more, my mother loves to tell the story of how, when she met my dad at a party in 1956, he was wearing a pink shirt.

What is "cool" comes and goes.  It could be said that gauging, tattoos, smoking, drinking, marijuana use, rock music etc. has been labeled "cool" at times, too, and popularized by Hollywood, but that doesn't mean we should do it.  I know, those are more extreme examples, but it is still the same point.  Our focus as Christians ought to be not on what is popular.  Just because a few people make it popular to go against the grain by wearing feminine colors, does not all of a sudden mean Christians ought to do it too.  This will likely offend a few people.  I'm sorry, and I'll state right here and now--it is JUST my opinion, and our family standard, ok?  (You all have your right to your own, and I won't think less of you for it)  I tell my sons that just because all of those shirts come in literally every color in the men's dept. doesn't mean that they should wear them!  There are men out there who WANT to dress effeminate for other reasons.  Do I, as a woman, want those men over in the women's section looking for a pink t-shirt?  No.  Do I want them in the women's dressing room because it is more convenient?  No.  They made male shirts in those colors and sold them because there was a perceived market for them at some point.....even before it became really popular in the mainstream lately, and those male shirts are in the men's dept. for that particular market.  If you think that's over-the-top, men, ask yourself where you would draw the line?  If what you perceive as a woman's blouse came in your size and was in the men's dept. would you buy it and where it just because it was there?  :twocents:  I will go hide, now.  :hide:

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As for men wearing long hair?  My pastor told a man, with long hair once, that if he wanted to where his hair long he had to keep all the commandments that the Jews kept in the O.T.  Sadly, this man, was very worldly.  He and his wife drank and smoked a lot.  He died of a heart attack at an early age.  His wife has Cancer.  They wanted to have a street ministry.  My FIL, the deacon of my church, told them that they would have to clean up their act first.  That didn't go over too well with this couple. 

 

The Bible says it is a shame for men ....

 

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 

 

As far as someone being told to clean up their act first before being used by the Lord- good thing Jesus did not expect His disciples to be perfect when he called them.  surprised%2Bemoticon.png

 

Or God to expect Moses to be perfect when he called him, Moses was so unsure of himself but God used him greatly!

 

PTL God did not expect me to be cleaned up first........angel%2Bemoticon.png

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The Bible says it is a shame for men ....

 

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 

 

As far as someone being told to clean up their act first before being used by the Lord- good thing Jesus did not expect His disciples to be perfect when he called them.  surprised%2Bemoticon.png

 

Or God to expect Moses to be perfect when he called him, Moses was so unsure of himself but God used him greatly!

 

PTL God did not expect me to be cleaned up first........angel%2Bemoticon.png

only god can clean you. we didn't live in the old testament only if we did we would have to kill animals but jesus died for use i just ask about hair and cover that all. 

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The Bible says it is a shame for men ....

 

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 

 

As far as someone being told to clean up their act first before being used by the Lord- good thing Jesus did not expect His disciples to be perfect when he called them.  surprised%2Bemoticon.png

 

Or God to expect Moses to be perfect when he called him, Moses was so unsure of himself but God used him greatly!

 

PTL God did not expect me to be cleaned up first........angel%2Bemoticon.png

My FIL quoted the scripture to this man, G20.  He directed him to what the Bible had to say, first.  However, this man was very rebellious.  Both he and his wife were.  If you knew them, you would understand.  They were the type of couple who loved to cause strife in the church.  Their children were the same way.

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I didn't get the impression that the man in candle's example was being told to clean up for perfection... :icon_smile:   It is a truth that when one ministers within the local church, there needs to be standards.  If someone refuses to give up their booze, drugs, and immorality (or, indeed, their long hair, if they are male), it would be an unwise pastor who okayed them working in a ministry, let alone leading one.  Rebellion breeds rebellion.  And, really - how is someone to grow if they are not pointed to what God says about how we are to live?  There is no question as to what God says about men's hair length...the choice would remain with the man as to whether or not he would obey.  Not obeying would keep him from certain areas of service.  Hence, to be best used would mean to cut the hair...

 

And as has been noted, long hair on men is normally a mark of rebellion.  In Bible times, it was often a mark of rebellion as well. Busts from that time period show that short hair on men was customary.

 

In the days of the Nazarites (under the law), it was a mark of separation on a man (or woman) who had vowed the vow of the Nazarite.  Long hair on men was not common then, and so for a man to have long hair made him stand out.  It was an outward sign of the vow.  There were, of course, two other requirements, but the hair was the most visible.  Women who vowed the vow didn't stand out so much during the vow.  But to end the vow, the hair had to be shaved and burned.  For both women and men.  So, men who vowed wore long hair for the duration. Women who did had shaved heads afterward.   :eye:

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Thanks, HC.  You are correct.  My FIL pointed this man to the scriptures and he was rebellious, even then.  I remember it well, b/c his wife complained to me about it.  This couple smoked cigarettes, drank booze, and also smoked marijuana.  How exactly did they think they were going to represent the church with this kind of lifestyle?  My FIL only mentioned this man's long hair, but it was clear that many aspects of his life needed repair.  I realize that cigarettes and booze are an addiction, but these things needed to be under control first before the church would allow this couple to do witnessing in the streets.  My FIL told them they looked like street people, and they needed to change that before they could be of help to them.  He was as kind as he could be to these people.   

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In addition to what ASOD said; in first century Greece (likely the rest of Rome as well), married women wore a head covering (like a scarf or a veil that didn't cover the face) as a display of respect, submission, and deference to their husbands. This was done primarily in official religious or political venues but also in some social gatherings as well. Unwed women did not wear such a head covering. Additionally, priestesses of some pagan gods like Aphrodite and Demeter often shaved their heads. In 1 Corinthians, Paul was dealing with a little bit of chaos and contention brought about by the coalescing of these factors. For whatever reason, women who would normally be expected to wear a head covering were not and it was causing strife in the church. This parallel isn't exact, but imagine if a man's wife today decided to stop wearing her wedding ring and start cutting her husband off in the middle of every point he tried to make in a Sunday School/Adult Bible Study class.

 

My grandmother always referred to her husband as Mr. McCrary, never by 1st name. I expect there's many in this world that do not know that, & at one time wife's dd show much respect for their husband, as did husbands.

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A womans long hair shows submission.  Those women with short hair usually are the diminant one's in a marriage, or at least in thier own little group.

 

Long hair on men is defined as Absolom was mentionrd to have, and he too was rebellious.  Something to be said for the hairstyles.

 

Good to see you make a post Marty.

 

Do any of you think its wrong for a woman to cut her hair?

 

Anyone ever read this book by John R. Rice?

 

Bobbed Hair, Bossy Wives, and Women Preachers!

 

My great Aunt Clara, whom I had much love for, although she was a very bossy, nagging, wife to her husband Uncle Coy. What I respected most about her was you always knew what the felt, there was no wishy-washy within her. She stood up for what she believed & thought was true. Nowadays in the Christian community hardly anyone likes for anyone to do that. If you disagree with what they believe they want you to add, but its OK for you to do as you please & there's nothing wrong with it, & if my beliefs offends you I dearly apologize for it & ask you to forgive me.

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Ah, one of my favorite topics! I have said before, I did my Master's thesis on this subject.

 

The simple issue is that a woman is given her long hair as a covering, and this is why it is a glory to her-wearing the hair long, or being covered, shows her submission to the divine order God has established, which is God the Father, God the Son, the Man and the Woman. Jesus is the head of the man, so the man's head must be uncovered so as not to hide the glory of Jesus Christ, in Whose image Man is created; the man is the head of the woman, and she must keep her head covered, to hide the glory of the man, in whose image she is created. But it is HER glory which can be shown, her long hair, because it shows her obedience and even the angels are edified in this show of obedience. 

 

So, if the covering is the long hair, then the man is to wear his hair short-if he wears it long, as a woman, then he is covered and is never fit to pray or speak the word of God, and is showing himself to be taking the role of the woman, according to God's order. A woman who wears her hair short, as a man's, is also not fir to speak the word of God, nor pray, because she is uncovered and is shown to be usurping the role of the man in God's order.

 

How long is long? How short is short? Well, for a woman, her long hair is likened to the 'covering', which in Greek refers to a veil or a mantle, something one might throw around their face  and head to cover them. That should be a good picture. How short is short? I suppose, too short to do this. I'd also say, if there's a question, make it shorter/longer. Obviously the Apostles and Jesus didn't wear high and tight haircuts, but neither were they coiffed as we see in many of the popular works of art of Jesus and His disciples. It may be that some of the best depictions might belong to the Mormons and JW's, oddly, because they seem to get the hair right. Hey, even a broken clock is correct twoice a day, right?

 

And yes, its fine for a woman to cut her hair, so long as it remains long. Nothing says they can never cut it.

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You must be very young. Pink used to be a popular color for men.

Pink was still a color of choice among men's clothes when I was a child but it really went out shortly after that. From what I've noticed, pink men's shirts are making a comeback.

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