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Obamacare Effect On Approved Form 4361

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I have an approved Form 4361 (exemption from Social Security and Medicare taxes on ministerial earnings). I have had this for about 20 years. My question is this: How does Obamacare effect those who already have an approved Form 4361? My reason for asking this is that when I applied for the 4361 exemption I had to agree to the following statement:


"I certify that I am conscientiously opposed to, or because of my religious principles I am opposed to, the acceptance (for services I perform as a minister, member of a religious order not under a vow of poverty, or Christian Science practitioner) of any public insurance that makes payments in the event of death, disability, old age, or retirement; or that makes payments toward the cost of, or provides services for, medical care. (Public insurance includes insurance systems established by the Social Security Act.)"


This statement is in relation to ministerial earnings only. However, it would seem that Obamacare certainly qualifies as public insurance. Has anybody explored this issue? What are the legal ramifications and how will the IRS view it if a minister already has an approved Form 4361 and then applies for Obamacare?


Bro Steve Smith



Edited by brosmith

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I am grateful you made it known. I may be using this on 2017 1040 as the IRS decided to give us a hassle on not checking the little box for Obamacare.

You may be interested in the Cracking the Code, book, http://d.scribd.com/docs/22egj337rh6jan7u1ki5.pdf    The amazon version is overpriced, the new version is $30 on Pete's website at www.losthorizons.com.
but here is a seminar on it in a nutshell, It took me three readings to get unbrainwashed. but I think if I heard this first, it may have helped, and I am a good reader. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=105GKdmJ9HU
Here is his followup book,Was Grandpa really a Moron? http://www.losthorizons.com/Intro.pdf
And a section from Was Grandpa Really a Moron? on Bob's Bicycles, showing an analogy on how the tax scam got so confused. ; http://www.losthorizons.com/comment/archives/BobsBicycles.pdf
Here is an educational quiz; www.howyoubecomeliable.com
And here are a few  interesting sections of law;

You will see two classifications , and know it is the activities which are taxed, not the person, as that would be a poll tax and illegal.;


    “The right to engage in an employment, to carry on a business, or pursue an occupation or profession not in itself hurtful or conducted in a manner injurious to the public, is a common right, which, under our Constitution, as construed by all our former decisions, can neither be prohibited nor hampered by laying a tax for State revenue on the occupation, employment, business or profession. ... Thousands of individuals in this State carry on their occupations as above defined who derive no income whatever therefrom. But, where an income is derived from any occupation, business, profession or employment, then the Legislature may lay thereon a tax...”


Sims v. Ahrens, 271 SW 720 (Ark. S. Ct. 1925) (emphasis added)


Definition of employee;


[1] 5 U.S.C. Sec. 552a (13). the term “Federal personnel” means officers and employees of the Government of the United States, members of the uniformed services (including members of the Reserve Components), individuals entitled to receive immediate or deferred retirement benefits under any retirement program of the Government of the United States (including survivor benefits).

See also 26 C.F.R. 301.6331-1 further identifies the federally privileged persons as “(4)(i) Federal employees, (ii) State and municipal employees and (iii) Seamen”

See also enforcing regulation for 26 U.S.C. Sec. 6331 – Levy and distraint, which is found under Title 27 Part 70  (Intoxicating Liquors), to identify federally privileged persons found under Title 27.


Definition of Employee


IRC  3401 (c )


For the purposes of this chapter, the term “employee” includes an officer, employee, or elected official of the United States, a State, or any political subdivision thereof, or the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of any one or more of the foregoing.


So investigate these sources and tell me what you think.

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