Members Eric Stahl Posted September 28, 2013 Members Share Posted September 28, 2013 Pastor Who Do You Think You Are? What is your responsibility in the church? Are you King or slave or somewhere in between? Please give scripture to back your opinion. Hebrews 13:17 17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. Please explain what this means to you and give other examples. This discussion may help some young preachers to not make mistakes and learn the hard way. I have a friend who just lost his church and is struggling in life. Help others to avoid his situation please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve Schwenke Posted September 29, 2013 Members Share Posted September 29, 2013 I believe our cue comes from the Lord Jesus Christ: Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. We are to SERVE and MINISTER to our congregation. While we "rule" over them according to Heb. 13:17, it is not a dictatorial rule, it is the rule of a shepherd caring for his sheep. A shepherd LEADS his sheep by example, and provides for them all along the way. Other passages for consideration: Ezek. 34 particularly v. 1-10 as an example of BAD shepherds Jer. 23:1-4 as an example of bad shepherds Matt. 9:36-38 for the need for shepherds Acts 6:4 - the primary focus of the pastor's ministry - prayer and the word of God Acts 20:17-35 - Paul's example in Ephesus I Timothy 4:12 - Paul instructs Timothy to be a living example The Pastor leads through the preaching and teaching of the word of God, and that preaching and teaching is confirmed by the Pastor's example in his daily life, as well as the Pastor's ministering to the needs of the flock. He takes care of them. A shepherd cannot drive the sheep like a cowboy drives cattle. Sheep cannot handle that, and they end up either running away or dying. They must be led - softly, gently, patiently. They need to be cared for. They need to be protected. Too many pastors think of themselves primarily as an administrator of activities. This is foreign to the Bible. Too many pastors think of themselves as "the boss" who must be obeyed - or else. Jesus Christ's observation on Israel being without a shepherd was made with COMPASSION (Mt. 9:36-38). So, when a member is hurting, we should go pray with them and comfort them. When a member is in the hospital, we should go visit them. When a member is struggling with sin, we should go MINISTER to them, by patient counsel and prayer. IN other words, we should try to HELP them get them victory, not HURT them by condemnation and pushing them out the door. Church discipline is another matter altogether. Hopefully you can see my point... If I could summarize it with one word, I would say "SERVANT-LEADER" (is that two words???) In Christ, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted September 29, 2013 Moderators Share Posted September 29, 2013 Well, I think that about wraps up this topic. Well-put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted September 29, 2013 Members Share Posted September 29, 2013 I believe our cue comes from the Lord Jesus Christ: Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. We are to SERVE and MINISTER to our congregation. While we "rule" over them according to Heb. 13:17, it is not a dictatorial rule, it is the rule of a shepherd caring for his sheep. A shepherd LEADS his sheep by example, and provides for them all along the way. Other passages for consideration: Ezek. 34 particularly v. 1-10 as an example of BAD shepherds Jer. 23:1-4 as an example of bad shepherds Matt. 9:36-38 for the need for shepherds Acts 6:4 - the primary focus of the pastor's ministry - prayer and the word of God Acts 20:17-35 - Paul's example in Ephesus I Timothy 4:12 - Paul instructs Timothy to be a living example The Pastor leads through the preaching and teaching of the word of God, and that preaching and teaching is confirmed by the Pastor's example in his daily life, as well as the Pastor's ministering to the needs of the flock. He takes care of them. A shepherd cannot drive the sheep like a cowboy drives cattle. Sheep cannot handle that, and they end up either running away or dying. They must be led - softly, gently, patiently. They need to be cared for. They need to be protected. Too many pastors think of themselves primarily as an administrator of activities. This is foreign to the Bible. Too many pastors think of themselves as "the boss" who must be obeyed - or else. Jesus Christ's observation on Israel being without a shepherd was made with COMPASSION (Mt. 9:36-38). So, when a member is hurting, we should go pray with them and comfort them. When a member is in the hospital, we should go visit them. When a member is struggling with sin, we should go MINISTER to them, by patient counsel and prayer. IN other words, we should try to HELP them get them victory, not HURT them by condemnation and pushing them out the door. Church discipline is another matter altogether. Hopefully you can see my point... If I could summarize it with one word, I would say "SERVANT-LEADER" (is that two words???) In Christ, Amen. Today, my breeding ram needed tending to but I didn't want to work the whole flock through the pens just to capture him.. I went to the paddock where he and the ewes were, poured a little oats into their trough, waited for him to approach and tried to snag one of his curled horns with my shepherd's staff. He was too fast for me; sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. So I picked up my sack of oats, opened the paddock gate, and walked toward the working pens, Instantly my 'lead sheep' Sissy, followed right at my feet, nuzzling my hand for some feed, and the rest of the flock with the ram followed her. At the working pens I poured out the sack into the trough, closed the gate, worked them through the chutes and caught the big ram. He needed his feet doctored and some wormer. It was the OATS that led the sheep to the working pens so I could care for the ram. God told Peter to "feed my sheep", The "feed" is the Word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted September 29, 2013 Author Members Share Posted September 29, 2013 Well, I think that about wraps up this topic. Well-put. There are other opinions that pastors may have and I would be interested in why they believe what they believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted September 29, 2013 Moderators Share Posted September 29, 2013 There are other opinions that pastors may have and I would be interested in why they believe what they believe. Just kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted September 29, 2013 Members Share Posted September 29, 2013 There are other opinions that pastors may have and I would be interested in why they believe what they believe. One thing I find strange is that some pastors seems to think they're the Shepherd of the church, not the under-shepherd, & they're to rule with an iron fist. I got into the middle of a discussion sometime back among some Southern Baptist pastors about this subject. This one pastor said I'm the Shepherd, & no one in my church has the right to know what this church pays me nor what I do with the money that's placed in the collection plate. Its amazing to me the number of Baptist pastors that's going that route today. And I fail to see how they can back that up by Scriptures without taking Scriptures out of context of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Glory Land Posted September 30, 2013 Members Share Posted September 30, 2013 Pastor Who Do You Think You Are? What is your responsibility in the church? Are you King or slave or somewhere in between? Please give scripture to back your opinion. Hebrews 13:17 17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. Please explain what this means to you and give other examples. This discussion may help some young preachers to not make mistakes and learn the hard way. I have a friend who just lost his church and is struggling in life. Help others to avoid his situation please. Queen or slave, if the pastor is a woman.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted September 30, 2013 Author Members Share Posted September 30, 2013 One thing I find strange is that some pastors seems to think they're the Shepherd of the church, not the under-shepherd, & they're to rule with an iron fist. I got into the middle of a discussion sometime back among some Southern Baptist pastors about this subject. This one pastor said I'm the Shepherd, & no one in my church has the right to know what this church pays me nor what I do with the money that's placed in the collection plate. Its amazing to me the number of Baptist pastors that's going that route today. And I fail to see how they can back that up by Scriptures without taking Scriptures out of context of course. If they believe that I would like to see the scripture that teaches that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted September 30, 2013 Members Share Posted September 30, 2013 Queen or slave, if the pastor is a woman.... If the "pastor" is a woman she's in disobedience to the Word of God and out of His will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Glory Land Posted September 30, 2013 Members Share Posted September 30, 2013 If the "pastor" is a woman she's in disobedience to the Word of God and out of His will. I know this, but many don't agree. Remember the first woman preacher, the woman at the well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted September 30, 2013 Members Share Posted September 30, 2013 I know this, but many don't agree. Remember the first woman preacher, the woman at the well? The woman at the well was not a preacher or a pastor, she was someone who shared her encounter with Christ. That's called witnessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted September 30, 2013 Members Share Posted September 30, 2013 The woman at the well was not a preacher or a pastor, she was someone who shared her encounter with Christ. That's called witnessing. Amazing how many will make the Bible read to what they want, chose, to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted September 30, 2013 Moderators Share Posted September 30, 2013 As a pastor, I'm really just one of the sheep, though I am a shepherd/under-shepherd as well. It is my job to feed and care for the flock of God, to seek to protect them from predators and poison, to see they have plenty of good food and water, and maybe the occasional treat to make them sweet. I also, due to my work, have a right to partake of the wool and milk of the flock, though I try not to fleece the flock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted October 1, 2013 Author Members Share Posted October 1, 2013 As a pastor, I'm really just one of the sheep, though I am a shepherd/under-shepherd as well. It is my job to feed and care for the flock of God, to seek to protect them from predators and poison, to see they have plenty of good food and water, and maybe the occasional treat to make them sweet. I also, due to my work, have a right to partake of the wool and milk of the flock, though I try not to fleece the flock. Judging by your green picture you probable get great offerings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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