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Should I Be A Channel?

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A popular teaching in the IFB Churches that I have been in, is the idea that the Lord wants us to be channels of money...
“When ever we receive unexpected money, we are to simply hold on to it and wait for the Lord to tell us who He wants us to give it to.”

The result of being a good channel(we are told), is it proves to the Lord that you can be trusted with more and more money; Never using any of it for yourself but always giving it to others.

Now this does sound appealing, but is it Scriptural?
------------------------     
I personally know a pastor who practices it, yet regularly talks about the areas of “need” in his life and his family’s life.
I can’t help but think that maybe the Lord’s intent, for some of this money that he gets, is to take care of him and his family’s needs.

  Note: Just so you know, this has nothing to do with our tithe.  This is taught to be over and above our tithe.
------------------------
Can anybody give me some “Scripture” about being a channel, that I may be overlooking.
 

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I can't think of anywhere in scripture something like this is taught. It seems it me that if the Lord wants someone to have money, He doesn't need to give it to someone else in need, to give to someone else in need, while leaving the first person still in need.  Now perhaps someone who already 'has', the Lord may direct to give to someone who 'has not', but I suspect if the Lord is going to give an unexpected bit of money to someone who needs it, He probably is meeting that person's needs.

 

tithe is not NT scriptural, but that's anothe subject.

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I can't think of anywhere in scripture something like this is taught. It seems it me that if the Lord wants someone to have money, He doesn't need to give it to someone else in need, to give to someone else in need, while leaving the first person still in need.  Now perhaps someone who already 'has', the Lord may direct to give to someone who 'has not', but I suspect if the Lord is going to give an unexpected bit of money to someone who needs it, He probably is meeting that person's needs.

 

tithe is not NT scriptural, but that's anothe subject.

2 Corinthians 8:12-13 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:

You are correct.  There is no Scripture that teaches us to tithe our money.  Funny so many believe that we are to practice tithing.

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This is another of those areas I've noticed similarities between some IFBs and the "prosperity preachers", who are most often identified as Charismatic or Pentacostal. They preach the same message of taking a financial blessing from the Lord and giving it away so they will get an even bigger financial blessing from the Lord.

 

If a man hasn't eaten in three days and someone hands him a Happy Meal from McDonald's should he thank the Lord and eat that Happy Meal, or does it really seem the Lord would have him give that Happy Meal away so he can then wait for the Lord to provide a supersize double quarter pounder with cheese meal?

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Giving to get is NOT a biblical concept in the first place whether you "tithe" or not, the idea is to give without thought of return.   Many times we have the "give to get" attitude with rewards too.  If we obey the Lord simply to keep our "reward" we may have already lost it!

 

By the way, don't fall for Satan's tricks in holding back the tithe, this has been hashed over and over here, and gotten nowhere.  Let's give (whether we call it a tithe or not), and let the Lord work it out.

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Giving to get is NOT a biblical concept in the first place whether you "tithe" or not, the idea is to give without thought of return.   Many times we have the "give to get" attitude with rewards too.  If we obey the Lord simply to keep our "reward" we may have already lost it!

 

By the way, don't fall for Satan's tricks in holding back the tithe, this has been hashed over and over here, and gotten nowhere.  Let's give (whether we call it a tithe or not), and let the Lord work it out.

For the same reason you mention about our attitude in giving, it matters whether or not one "tithes", which means giving 10%, because they think they have to, or whether they give out of love, according to the Lord's leading after prayer. Many tithe with the wrong attitude of "I have to do this", while some tithe for the same reason stated above, because they've been told time and again that if they tithe God will pour out blessings to them, including financial blessings. It's the same "give to get" message and attitude whether it involves a tithe or other giving.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with realizing that God will bless our giving if done rightly, but I do agree that if we are giving only, or even primarily, because we expect the Lord to give us much more in return, that's the wrong attitude for giving.

 

We should so love the Lord that we want to give what we can to Him as an act of love, worship and thanksgiving. This is giving with a cheerful heart. Scripture already tells us the Lord will meet our needs, and He does. What a blessing when the Lord does grant us blessings as we faithfully serve Him, including in our giving, but our giving should be out of a heart of love toward God, not out of a heart seeking reward.

 

More directly to the point in the OP, whether our money comes from work, a gift or some unexpected source, our first response should be to thank the Lord, and then we should pray with regards to how the Lord would have us use that money. The Lord will let us know if we should save it, give it to someone, donate it to the church, missions or such, or use it for our needs.

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A popular teaching in the IFB Churches that I have been in, is the idea that the Lord wants us to be channels of money...
“When ever we receive unexpected money, we are to simply hold on to it and wait for the Lord to tell us who He wants us to give it to.”

The result of being a good channel(we are told), is it proves to the Lord that you can be trusted with more and more money; Never using any of it for yourself but always giving it to others.

Now this does sound appealing, but is it Scriptural?
------------------------     
I personally know a pastor who practices it, yet regularly talks about the areas of “need” in his life and his family’s life.
I can’t help but think that maybe the Lord’s intent, for some of this money that he gets, is to take care of him and his family’s needs.

  Note: Just so you know, this has nothing to do with our tithe.  This is taught to be over and above our tithe.
------------------------
Can anybody give me some “Scripture” about being a channel, that I may be overlooking.
 

Your exposure to IFB churches is not an accurate measuring rod.  I have been in IFB churches all over the USA and have never heard it, so maybe it is not as "popular" as you think.  It may be "popular" in certain circles, but not within the all encompassing umbrella of IFB

That being said, it is most certainly NOT Scriptural.  It is nothing more than another way to fleece the flock of everything they have - see Jer. 23:1-2.  Too many in our IFB circles are far too preoccupied with buildings, increasing attendance, which increases offerings, which increases their salary.  They have borrowed their ideas from the charismatics and evangelicals, instead of preaching old-fashioned, fundamental, Bible Doctrine, Bible separation, and Biblical holiness.  

 

There is no doubt in my mind that we are in the last days.

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This subject came up, because not only have I been hearing this “channel” message from my pastor over the last two years, but I have also heard this same message, from almost every guest speaker and visiting pastor that has come to our Church during that time.

And the last time I heard it, was last Sunday night; When a visiting missionary on deputation, talked about it(in no uncertain terms), and he also pointed out how this was not your tithe, because as He put it.... “Our tithe is the Lord’s and He will get it one way or the other, by a flat tire or a broken water pipe, etc.”

Now in my mind, I “accepted this”, because of what the Bible says in.........
Mal 3:8-12
V.8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
V.9 Ye [are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation.
V.10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].
V.11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
V.12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.


Not only does God ask in this passage, “Will a man rob God?”, but in the New Testament we are told to support God’s Work........
Ga 6:6-8
V.6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
V.7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
V.8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.


Therefore, the issue of the “tithe” is somewhat settled my mind.
But if this “channel teaching” stuff is not as widespread as some say here, than how or why does this message keep coming up in my Church?
------------------------
Another thing that I have been taught(and seen for myself in Scripture), is that the Tithe(10%) is certainly and Old Testament teaching, because the New Testament teaches that we owe the Lord 100%, therefore 10% is just kind of a starting place.

Oh, by the way I don’t really want this thread to be hijacked over to a “tithe” thread, but if I can learn more clearly WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS about it, than so be it.
 

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I'm in agreement with John, Irishman, and Steve about and purpose behind such a "channel giving" concept as described in the OP. Giving to get is not at all the attitude God wants and does not reflect the heart of a cheerful giver (2 Cor 9:7). What comes to mind for me is Luke 6:38:

 

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

 

and Matthew 6:30:

 

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

 

and the parable of the rich man in Luke 12:16-23. I think all of these show that God does not want us the hoarde the blessings He gives.  Rather to bless other people through the abundance He's granted, expecting nothing in return and trusting that should an unplanned need arise later that God will provide for that need. This, I think, is the concept of grace giving.

 

For example, my wife and I knew a girl at one of our former churches whose husband had just left her and their two girls for another man (no...that's not a typo, but I certainly wish it was). She found herself without a vehicle and thus no way to get to a job or run errands with/for her kids. At the time, I was still in the Air Force and my wife was still working (we didn't have any kids yet) and we were doing rather well financially and working hard to pay off all of our debt. We decided to forego our extra debt payments for a couple months and anonymously bought her a car to help get her back on her feet. Since then, I can't count the times that God has provided for us in difficult times through unexpected income or unrequested help from others. That's Luke 6:38 in action. In that sense, I do believe we are to be a conduit of God's blessing and not merely a repository.

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Right - that is giving out of our abundance to help those who are less fortunate, but the fact is that your NEEDS were met.

What these clowns are advocating is giving even when your own basic needs are NOT met....and that is not scriptural at all.

 

by the way, great testimony.  It is always good to hear how the Lord uses people.  It is giving out of a true concern for your brothers and sisters in Christ.  I have solicited funds from some individuals in our church (and I chipped in too) when we had a young man whose car was totaled by an uninsured, underaged teenager.  He didn't have the money to replace it (liability only!), and no money for a lawyer either.  So between a few of us at church, we raised enough money to buy him a car.  I was glad to do it.  We have done other things over the years as well.  It truly is "more blessed to give than to receive." 

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Your exposure to IFB churches is not an accurate measuring rod.  I have been in IFB churches all over the USA and have never heard it, so maybe it is not as "popular" as you think.  It may be "popular" in certain circles, but not within the all encompassing umbrella of IFB

That being said, it is most certainly NOT Scriptural.  It is nothing more than another way to fleece the flock of everything they have - see Jer. 23:1-2.  Too many in our IFB circles are far too preoccupied with buildings, increasing attendance, which increases offerings, which increases their salary.  They have borrowed their ideas from the charismatics and evangelicals, instead of preaching old-fashioned, fundamental, Bible Doctrine, Bible separation, and Biblical holiness.  

 

There is no doubt in my mind that we are in the last days.

 

One thing is quite amazing to me there's some who set in the IFB churches, churches with Baptist in their names & what they say they hear the pastor say is not what the pastor says.

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This subject came up, because not only have I been hearing this “channel” message from my pastor over the last two years, but I have also heard this same message, from almost every guest speaker and visiting pastor that has come to our Church during that time.

And the last time I heard it, was last Sunday night; When a visiting missionary on deputation, talked about it(in no uncertain terms), and he also pointed out how this was not your tithe, because as He put it.... “Our tithe is the Lord’s and He will get it one way or the other, by a flat tire or a broken water pipe, etc.”

 

Well, your pastor has this view, and he wants to reinforce that view with his guest speakers.  Just like I make sure the guest preachers I have won't undermine what I have been preaching and teaching.  So this is no surprise to me that he is doing this.  However, this does not mean that this is necessarily a widespread teaching in IFB churches.  As several here have stated, we have never heard of this in our churches, and our churches are a fairly wide cross-section of the IFB movement, though not a complete picture of it.

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Oh, by the way I don’t really want this thread to be hijacked over to a “tithe” thread, but if I can learn more clearly WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS about it, than so be it.
 

What does Scripture say about God's Holy tithe? 

Well, for one, it was not money. (Deut. 14:22-27)  (if it was money, why sell it for money and then buy it back?)

It was food and livestock (Lev. 27:30-33; Deut. 12:17; Deut. 14:22, 23, 28; Deut 26:12; Neh. 10:37; Neh. 13:5,12; Mal. 3:10; Matt. 23:23; Lu. 11:42)

It was for the children of Israel, not other nations (Lev. 27:34)

It was to be given to the Levites (Num. 18:24,26; Neh. 10:38 )

It was an ordinance (Mal 3:7)

It was abolished by Jesus Christ Himself (Eph 2:14-15; Col. 2:14; Heb 7:18)

It was never taught by the Apostles... probably because of the fact that it had been abolished by Jesus Christ.

Yes, Abram did tithe before the Law. (Ge. 14:20 )  But what the Bible says He tithed was not even his own property. (Heb. 7:4)  He promised God he would not keep any of the spoils for himself lest he give Bera occasion to say he had made Abram rich. (Ge. 14:22-24)

The Apostle Peter attested that those who teach the tithe (a part of the Mosaic Law) are tempting God (Acts 15:10 )

The Apostle taught that those who tithe (putting themselves under the Law from which all had been freed) are under a curse if they don't keep ALL the Law (Gal. 3:10 )

The Bible has much to say concerning the tithe, if only people would open their Bibles and study it out.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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What does Scripture say about God's Holy tithe? 

Well, for one, it was not money. (Deut. 14:22-27)  (if it was money, why sell it for money and then buy it back?)

It was food and livestock (Lev. 27:30-33; Deut. 12:17; Deut. 14:22, 23, 28; Deut 26:12; Neh. 10:37; Neh. 13:5,12; Mal. 3:10; Matt. 23:23; Lu. 11:42)

It was for the children of Israel, not other nations (Lev. 27:34)

It was to be given to the Levites (Num. 18:24,26; Neh. 10:38 )

It was an ordinance (Mal 3:7)

It was abolished by Jesus Christ Himself (Eph 2:14-15; Col. 2:14; Heb 7:18)

It was never taught by the Apostles... probably because of the fact that it had been abolished by Jesus Christ.

Yes, Abram did tithe before the Law. (Ge. 14:20 )  But what the Bible says He tithed was not even his own property. (Heb. 7:4)  He promised God he would not keep any of the spoils for himself lest he give Bera occasion to say he had made Abram rich. (Ge. 14:22-24)

The Apostle Peter attested that those who teach the tithe (a part of the Mosaic Law) are tempting God (Acts 15:10 )

The Apostle taught that those who tithe (putting themselves under the Law from which all had been freed) are under a curse if they don't keep ALL the Law (Gal. 3:10 )

The Bible has much to say concerning the tithe, if only people would open their Bibles and study it out.

:hide:

 

:runforhills:

 

:reaction:

 

:beatdeadhorse:

 

Here we go again!!!

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Donald,

here is a thread we had a while back on tithing...I would ask you to consider reading it, and spare the rest of us the trouble of rehashing the topic again...

 

Thanks

 

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Donald did say he was open to hear what the Bible says about tithing. 

Why is it preachers act so shocked when truths about tithing are presented?

That is not the point Ron, the point is that this topic keeps getting rehashed over and again....personally, I am quite tired of the hobby horse riding...nothing personal...

 

In Christ,

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That is not the point Ron, the point is that this topic keeps getting rehashed over and again....personally, I am quite tired of the hobby horse riding...nothing personal...

 

In Christ,

The fact remains, Steve.  As you have demonstrated.

Preachers should be overjoyed any time the Scriptures are presented, whether they are presented once a year, once a month, or once a day.

Yet, when someone presents the truths concerning tithes, those who teach the monetary tithe (a tithe that God never authorized) don't want to hear it again.  As a preacher, you should be ecstatic that another preacher is sharing what the Word of God says concerning any subject. 

I did not interject anything in my post that contradicts what the Scripture clearly says.  Anyone who desires to research the tithe can look up the Scripture references I provided and see that I have not contradicted them at all. 

There are only 32 instances where the words "tithe," "tithes," and "tithing" appear in the KJV  Not that many to research and study for those who want to know what God's Word says concerning the subject. 

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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Hello Steve

Thanks for the link........
http://www.onlinebap.../15472-tithing/

But I was very surprised(and disappointed), after looking over all 45 posts on this thread, and all I saw was “opinion”, after “opinion”, after “opinion”, after “opinion”, after “opinion” etc,...
I NEVER saw EVEN ONE SCRIPTURE REFERENCE, with the exception of one vague reference to Matthew 18:, ??
------------------------
I sited two SCRIPTURES and Standing Firm In Christ, responded with a handful of SCRIPTURE references.....
This is how Christians are to get to the bottom of any issue!
--------------------------------------------------  

Hello Standing Firm In Christ

Thank you for your response: You said and referenced.....
“Well, for one, it was not money.”
“Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.”   Deuteronomy 14:22

This could be because “money” was scarce.  So they tithed with what they had.
------------------------
You also said and referenced.....
“It was for the children of Israel, not other nations”
“These [are] the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.” Leviticus 27:34

I agree; Just as the Tithe, is not for the unsaved to pay.
------------------------
Next you said and referenced.....
“It was to be given to the Levites”
Numbers 18:24-26
V.24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer [as] an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
V.25 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
V.26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, [even] a tenth [part] of the tithe.


and

And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.” Nehemiah 10:38

Your second reference explains the first.
The Levites were to also Tithe: (A 10th of the tithe they received).
------------------------
You continued with.........
“It was an ordinance”
“Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept [them]. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?”  Malachi 3:7

Some would say, that God’s people had left the LORD by going away from His ordinances: And that here(in the following verses), is God’s answer to the question, “How shall we return”!
So it’s not all that Clear, that “giving to the work of the Lord”, is included in the ordinances that they had forsaken.
But let us for a minute, assume that it was.......

Next you said.....
“It was abolished by Jesus Christ Himself”
Ephesians 2:14-15
V.14 ¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
V.15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;


and

Colossians 2:14
V.14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


Here, your second reference seems to answer the question posed in the first reference.
For sure, Christ abolished the “the law of commandments contained in ordinances”, but not all ordinances were bad for us.....

He blotted out the ones that were “contrary to us”.

And your third reference rejects itself(in this discussion), because in it’s context it is clearly talking about a changing of the law that was required, in order for Christ to be our High Priest.
Hebrews 7:17-19
V.17 For he testifieth, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
V.18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
V.19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

------------------------
Also you said.....
The Apostle Peter attested that those who teach the tithe (a part of the Mosaic Law) are tempting God (Acts 15:10 )
“Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?” Acts 15:10

This is clearly talking about making circumcision necessary of salvation.
---------
Also you said.....
“The Apostle taught that those who tithe (putting themselves under the Law from which all had been freed) are under a curse if they don't keep ALL the Law “

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.” Galatians 3:10

Now above you called Tithing “an ordinance” but here you are calling it “a law”.
I will have to study this a little more, but I don’t think they are the same thing.
------------------------
Then finally you said....
“It was never taught by the Apostles... probably because of the fact that it had been abolished by Jesus Christ.”

You did not respond to the other Scripture that I posted.....
Galatians 6:6-8
V.6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
V.7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
V.8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.


Here the Apostle Paul seems to be teaching Tithing.
------------------------
I certainly don’t have all the answers, but I continue to be open for Scripture to teach me.
 

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Hello Donald,

Actually, money was not as scarce as some would think it was.  The farmers obviously had money with which they could redeem the tithe of crops if they so chose to do (Lev. 27:31-32)  They also could sell their the second annual tithe for silver if it was too heavy to carry or the distance was too far, but had to use that silver to buy back the tithe once they arrived at the destination where they were to eat the tithe (Deut. 14:24-26)
------------------------
------------------------
------------------------
Malachi clearly establishes that tithing was an ordinance.  Ye have gone out from my ordinances, Return... How?  By robbing Me. (paraphrased)  It is clearl that the robbing God of tithes and offerings was indeed the act of going out from the ordinances.

------------------------
Acts 15 is not just about circumcision, it is about the whole of the Mosaic Law.  In Paul's day, he would have been circumcised as an infant... on the eighth day of his existence.  It is highly doubtful that he remembered that milestone in his life to know he could not "bear it".  No, Paul was clearly referring to the whole of the Mosaic Law and the fact that neither he, nor those at the Council, nor their forefathers, could walk according to its requirements.
---------
Ordinances were indeed Law.  From Strongs:

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
2706. choq
Search for H2706 in KJVSL qx choq khoke

from 2710; an enactment; hence, an appointment (of time, space, quantity, labor or usage):--appointed, bound, commandment, convenient, custom, decree(-d), due, law, measure, X necessary, ordinance(- nary), portion, set time, statute, task.

See Hebrew 2710

------------------------
Galatians 6 actually cannot be talking about tithing.  As a matter of fact, it is not talking about money at all.  Read the context from verse one...

Galatians 6:1-6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For every man shall bear his own burden. Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

This is speaking about a spiritual one restoring one who is overtaken in a fault.  The spiritual one is the one who is teaching.  The one taught is to communicate in all good things...to give a report  to the communicator. 

------------------------
 

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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Concerning Galatians 6, the verses should be read from verse 1 through verse 10.  Then, one can see Paul is not speaking about tithing.  For he ends the paragraph with

Galatians 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

The instruction in verse 6 to communicate in all good things is accented with "do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith." 

The communication is "do good to all".  It is not speaking of tithes.

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