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2T3:16

Hebrew Roots Sacred Name

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The theory of some is that the Antichrist will locate the ark of the covenant and then reestablish the covenant with the Jews. This would deceive the Jews into believing he is the Messiah.

He may not even have to do that; many Jews believe that whoever is the one responsible for rebuilding the temple will be the messiah.

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There would be very good reason that the ark was hidden by the priests deep inside the Temple mount.  That area is off limits to archeology.

All the Israelis have to do is decisively win another Arab-Israeli war and the Temple will be theirs (see Psalm 83).  All of the implements have

already been made by the Temple Mount Faithful organization in Jerusalem.  They need the ashes of the red heffer in order to purify the Temple.

The Levite priests are trained and their garments are make.  The Temple proper could be erected in 3 weeks.  It could happen at any time.

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There would be very good reason that the ark was hidden by the priests deep inside the Temple mount.  That area is off limits to archeology.

All the Israelis have to do is decisively win another Arab-Israeli war and the Temple will be theirs (see Psalm 83).  All of the implements have

already been made by the Temple Mount Faithful organization in Jerusalem.  They need the ashes of the red heffer in order to purify the Temple.

The Levite priests are trained and their garments are make.  The Temple proper could be erected in 3 weeks.  It could happen at any time.

 

There are no priests today.  None can prove their genealogy.  The reason the sacrifice failed was that there were no priests who could prove their genealogy after the house of archives was destroyed in a fire caused by the seditious. Anyone practicing as a priest today would be poluted.

 

Ezr 2:62  These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
Ezr 8:1  These are now the chief of their fathers, and this is the genealogy of them that went up with me from Babylon, in the reign of Artaxerxes the king.
Ezr 8:3  Of the sons of Shechaniah, of the sons of Pharosh; Zechariah: and with him were reckoned by genealogy of the males an hundred and fifty.
Ne 7:5  And my God put into mine heart to gather together the nobles, and the rulers, and the people, that they might be reckoned by genealogy. And I found a register of the genealogy of them which came up at the first, and found written therein,
Ne 7:64  These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but it was not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
 
After the six day war, we were told that the Jews had a prefabricated temple ready and would errect it in months.  No doubt todays rumours are just as false.
Edited by Invicta

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It's a myth that there are no priests today.  It's a myth perpetrated by the "replacement theologians", but its origin goes back to Augustine of Hippo (St. Augustine).

 

Anyone with the last name Cohen (or a variation of this) can easily trace their geneology is a Levite.  The temple garments are ready and waiting as well as all implements.

 

Cohen-Levi Family Heritage

http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_center/the_center.htm

 

The Cohanim - DNA Connection

The fascinating story of how DNA studies confirm an ancient biblical tradition.

http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48936742.html

Edited by beameup

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Also, any Jew with "Levi" in their last name is a Levite. 

 

There is a group in Jerusalem called The Temple Mount Faithful making plans to rebuild the "third"/"tribulation" temple.  Here's an article from the Way of Life website about those plans:

http://www.wayoflife.org/index_files/preparation_for_rebuilding_jewish_temple.html

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There are no priests today.  None can prove their genealogy.  The reason the sacrifice failed was that there were no priests who could prove their genealogy after the house of archives was destroyed in a fire caused by the seditious. Anyone practicing as a priest today would be poluted.

 

Ezr 2:62  These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
Ezr 8:1  These are now the chief of their fathers, and this is the genealogy of them that went up with me from Babylon, in the reign of Artaxerxes the king.
Ezr 8:3  Of the sons of Shechaniah, of the sons of Pharosh; Zechariah: and with him were reckoned by genealogy of the males an hundred and fifty.
Ne 7:5  And my God put into mine heart to gather together the nobles, and the rulers, and the people, that they might be reckoned by genealogy. And I found a register of the genealogy of them which came up at the first, and found written therein,
Ne 7:64  These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but it was not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
 
After the six day war, we were told that the Jews had a prefabricated temple ready and would errect it in months.  No doubt todays rumours are just as false.

 

And of course the Holocaust was probably fake too. What an idiot Hitler was for waging a war against a bunch of "fake" Jews. Yeah, we got ya! I really wish someone would tell me when the Jews became completely extinct so that I can get a free ticket to a talk show and find out who my real daddy is :)

Even though I have PERSONALLY seen the Center of Kohanim and seen some of the relics on display which ANYONE IN JERUSALEM can see, it was really just a rumor and I was probably intoxicated from the chemicals being used next door in Damascus.

 

Amazing why Preterist Calvinists who rush to the defense of the Septuagint are so interested in a fundamental Baptist forum. Since the Jews are so good at "rumors", I'll pitch in another one: The Jesuits have people that deliberately infiltrate fundamentalist forums.

Edited by Dr James Ach

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And of course the Holocaust was probably fake too. What an idiot Hitler was for waging a war against a bunch of "fake" Jews. Yeah, we got ya! I really wish someone would tell me when the Jews became completely extinct so that I can get a free ticket to a talk show and find out who my real daddy is :)

Even though I have PERSONALLY seen the Center of Kohanim and seen some of the relics on display which ANYONE IN JERUSALEM can see, it was really just a rumor and I was probably intoxicated from the chemicals being used next door in Damascus.

 

Amazing why Preterist Calvinists who rush to the defense of the Septuagint are so interested in a fundamental Baptist forum. Since the Jews are so good at "rumors", I'll pitch in another one: The Jesuits have people that deliberately infiltrate fundamentalist forums.

How 'bout the "Turkish Jew" fantasy? I've run into people in bible forums before that claim that the Jews in Israel are not real Jews but "Turkish Jews" (descendants of Khazars), whatever that is suppose to mean. Seems Texe Marrs has been pushing this nonsense also. 

 

I had one nut tell me that the Jews in Israel were fake Jews because the term "Jew" only meant "Jewish by religion" and that the real Jews were unidentified Gentiles living in the United States. I'm finding many KJVO folks believing this tripe too.

Edited by ASongOfDegrees

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How 'bout the "Turkish Jew" fantasy? I've run into people in bible forums before that claim that the Jews in Israel are not real Jews but "Turkish Jews" (descendants of Khazars), whatever that is suppose to mean. Seems Texe Marrs has been pushing this nonsense also. 

 

I had one nut tell me that the Jews in Israel were fake Jews because the term "Jew" only meant "Jewish by religion" and that the real Jews were unidentified Gentiles living in the United States. I'm finding many KJVO folks believing this tripe too.

That theory was made popular by Arthur Koestler back in the early 70s. He was a German Communist trained of all places...gasp... the same Austrian Jesuit school that trained Hitler.

It's becoming popular in KJVO circles because Calvinism has been rearing it's head, and traditional Calvinists were amillennial. But, in order to be successful at poisoning the fundamentalist churches, you can't stray too far off of what are the generally accepted views of eschatology, so they find a place in the middle-Preterism or Pre Wrath. The Catholic church can't afford to have "real" Jews because that would mean that they don't get their kingdom on earth. That's why John Calvin, although piously acting as if he denounced the RCC, never truly broke away from their doctrines, infant baptism, spiritual presence of the Holy Spirit in the eucharist, amillennialism and of course, murdering "heretics". The Catholic church used John Calvin to split the reformers, and they will use Calvinism's resurrection to split Baptist churches because they are the biggest threat to the RCC. 

 

Thus the existence of the Jew is the biggest obstacle to the eschatological views of the RCC and Calvinism because if there really are "real" Jews in Israel, then that kills their theology. 

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Sorry to bump a thread that has been quiet for awhile, but I've been absent from the forums for a few months and this topic is something that has touched me personally. 

 

I know someone who is involved, heavily, in the Hebraic Roots Movement. This individual is very much a fan of Michael Rood, Mark Biltz, Jim Staley, 119 Ministries, Jewish Jewels, etc. For awhile, I listened to this person. They were raised in a Christian home (IFB, as a matter of fact), went to Bible college, so I assumed they, of all people, would know their stuff.

 

Folks, this is a movement that is propped up by demonic, seducing spirits. It is such a clever vehicle for Satan to tempt Christians away from the saving faith in Jesus Christ. I know this, because for a very, very brief time I studied it myself. Many people involved are well meaning people. People who have been told that if they follow these teachings, they are the "true believers". They are told that we (Christians) are Jews. The true Jews. That we are grafted into the vine that is the Jewish nation of Israel. You are told that all versions of the Bible, save for a few "Hebrew" translations, are perversions of the Scriptures. That all other translations were commissioned by Constantine, thus tainted with Pagan words, such as "God", "Jesus", and "Holy Spirit". You must use terminology such as "YHVH" for God, "Yeshua HaMashiach" for Jesus the Messiah and "Ruach HaKodesh" for the Holy Spirit. Otherwise you're speaking a Pagan language, and God cannot hear you.

 

At first, it seems like fun. Jewish culture and rites are fascinating. The holy feast days are interesting, especially if you've never studied them. But here is where it becomes prOBlematic - the Law. While the HRM are quick to say, "oh, we don't believe in works-based salvation" you can be rest assured that you will be introduced to their method of picking and choosing which of the mitzvot they follow. Some follow most of them, such as men not shaving their beards. Some believe that was merely a cultural thing. I went to websites where Hebrew Roots wives discussed how they were covering their furniture in plastic, because it was their "niddah" (menstrual period, time of uncleanliness) and how they missed being able to hold their husband's hand during prayer time those twelve days a month and lamented at how difficult it is to find a local mikvah (ritual bath) that will accept non-Jews. 

 

This person I was in contact with told me all about the eve of Passover, and how you must inspect your entire home (including underneath furniture and kitchen appliances) for every last crumb of leaven, and how it must be removed in a ceremonial fashion with a wooden spoon, by the eldest son in the home. I was told that I needed to contact a Rabbi to discuss how to keep a kosher kitchen (which typically includes three sets of dishes, pots/pans and utensils and two of each appliance). I was told that dispensational theology is a lie and that Paul was a false apostle. That all of the epistles were "added by the Catholic Church" and should not be considered the Word of God. I can tell you, there is a lot of heavy Scripture twisting that goes on to support these beliefs.

 

If a HRM follower believes in the rapture at all, they believe in post-tribulation rapture. You will find a lot of HRM movement folks in the "doomsday prepper" movement. The two tend to overlap, strangely enough. Another strange overlap is how many HRM followers also follow BOB Larsen. It's an enticing movement. It promises deeper understanding of the Scriptures, because hey, you learn the "real language" of God. It promises great spiritual rewards. It teaches Christians to fear, at an almost superstitious level, everything from birthdays to eating anything with gelatin in it. It claims it is not works-based, yet you are constantly tethered to the OT law. It discounts all of the Epistles, claims it is entirely NT, and yet most of their supporting Scriptures are pulled out of context from OT snippets of Scripture. The only NT verse they throw around, and it is a proof-text of their entire belief system, is 2 Peter 3:16. 

 

Then there is an OBsessive OBservance of the "true Sabbath", or Shabbat. You can't go shopping on Shabbat. You can't cook on Shabbat. You have to attend Shabbat service on Friday night and Saturday. You must do Havdalah (which signifies the end of the Sabbath), otherwise you haven't properly OBserved the Shabbat. You have to partake of wine, make challah, light candles, say all of these prayers in Hebrew. It just becomes exhausting. I suppose if you were raised Jewish, this all comes naturally, but to a Christian these are simply manmade rituals that cause stress, confusion, and sometimes fear that you won't do it correctly.

 

Praise the LORD He opened my eyes sometime just before Christmas. We had already loosely OBserved Hanukkah and I had decided we were not going to do Christmas. I was becoming discontent at church, even to the point of posting passive-aggressive FB posts every time my pastor posted one about what it means that Jesus fulfilled the law. I quickly asked the Lord to forgive me for my blindness. I know this must have made the devil angry, because there were some rough patches for awhile after that, but I am so glad He showed me how to see the HRM for what it truly is - a lie straight from the pits of hell! So many people go into the HRM professing Christ, and many leave and become fully Jewish converts, because if you are always told the Trinity is a lie, that a huge portion of the Bible was written by a Pagan liar, and that one must keep the law as their salvation, then why wouldn't you simply abandon your faith in Jesus as the Messiah and become a full-fledged Jew?

 

I could go on and on about this topic, but I have to say that if you are not strong in your faith or you are struggling with spiritual warfare, do not even look into the HRM. The websites are very convincing. The leaders are not ignorant. They know the Scriptures, but they do not understand them. It is so easy to be lead astray by this false doctrine.

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How 'bout the "Turkish Jew" fantasy? I've run into people in bible forums before that claim that the Jews in Israel are not real Jews but "Turkish Jews" (descendants of Khazars), whatever that is suppose to mean. Seems Texe Marrs has been pushing this nonsense also. 

 

I had one nut tell me that the Jews in Israel were fake Jews because the term "Jew" only meant "Jewish by religion" and that the real Jews were unidentified Gentiles living in the United States. I'm finding many KJVO folks believing this tripe too.

 

I used to work with a Jewish lad who said the Jews were not a nation and only a religion and as he did not believe the religion he was not a Jew,

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It's a myth that there are no priests today.  It's a myth perpetrated by the "replacement theologians", but its origin goes back to Augustine of Hippo (St. Augustine).

 

Anyone with the last name Cohen (or a variation of this) can easily trace their geneology is a Levite.  The temple garments are ready and waiting as well as all implements.

 

Cohen-Levi Family Heritage

http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_center/the_center.htm

 

The Cohanim - DNA Connection

The fascinating story of how DNA studies confirm an ancient biblical tradition.

http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48936742.html

 

Actually it goes much further back that Augustine.  IT is recorded by Josephus who was a priest himself, a descendant of Mathias.

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I agree that it is a myth that there are no priests today. I know someone with the last name Kagan and he has no doubt he is descended from Cohen ... and I know someone whose last name is Leventhal and they have no doubt they are decended from Levi. I also know a Syrian Jew with the last name Douek (lives in  America .. has some family in Israel) and they seem pretty confident of their genealogy as well (although I didn't remember theirs).

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I agree that it is a myth that there are no priests today. I know someone with the last name Kagan and he has no doubt he is descended from Cohen ... and I know someone whose last name is Leventhal and they have no doubt they are decended from Levi. I also know a Syrian Jew with the last name Douek (lives in America .. has some family in Israel) and they seem pretty confident of their genealogy as well (although I didn't remember theirs).

One of my friends showed me his hands...they have a design to them. He said it is only his tribe who has that.
They were very unique.
Anyone else seen this?



Anishinaabe

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I used to work with a Jewish lad who said the Jews were not a nation and only a religion and as he did not believe the religion he was not a Jew,

This is, actually, correct. The 'JEW" comes from Judah, the nation that continued in the proper worship of God, (more or less) and kept the Temple. Hebrew, often called JacOB, today, israeli, is actually the people and nation, Judism is the religion, thus, Jew.

 

That's wyh, generally, when the NT speaks of 'the Jews', if is often speaking of the Jewish Religious leaders.

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Just bringing this back up, because with Easter I saw a lot of Hebrew Roots Movement posts on my FB talking about how it's a sin to celebrate Jesus' resurrection at all, and how they were celebrating Passover. One friend posted a photo of their "Gentile Seder" complete with the husband wearing a talit and his wife wearing tzitzit on her shirt. :scratchchin: Doing some research online I came across someone who said, "Christians are still bound by the Torah Law. Jesus' death just means we can't be stoned for violating the law." *sigh*

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Just bringing this back up, because with Easter I saw a lot of Hebrew Roots Movement posts on my FB talking about how it's a sin to celebrate Jesus' resurrection at all, and how they were celebrating Passover. One friend posted a photo of their "Gentile Seder" complete with the husband wearing a talit and his wife wearing tzitzit on her shirt. :scratchchin: Doing some research online I came across someone who said, "Christians are still bound by the Torah Law. Jesus' death just means we can't be stoned for violating the law." *sigh*

Was that quote from an HRM site called 119Ministries?

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Was that quote from an HRM site called 119Ministries?

It was actually in a thread about the Hebrew Roots Movement on a Christian message forum. With that said, this particular poster's comments read very much like the things the guys at 119 Ministries say.

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Now, on Resurrection Day, which we hold on the Sunday after Passover, since that's when Jesus was resurrected, we have, for the past few years, gone over Christ in the Passover-not because I am teaching to keep Passover, but because  want to see where Christ is so plainly depicted in the Passover traditions, and also to see exactly where Jesus took the two Passover parts from to give us the Lord's Supper, from the Affikomen, (His Body), and the Cup of Redemption/Blessing, (His blood). It really gives it a greater clarity and understanding of it, and why it IS, indeed, just a little piece of bread and a sip of juice, NOT wine.  Its always fascinating.

 

Some have taken to the whole 'love feast' and taking the Lord's Supper, (using leavend bread!) as the biblical way of having the Lord's Supper. They say, "Jesus and His disciples ate a big meal, so should we!" Okay, you want to do it like they did? Eat the Passover! But we were directed to something else, just two parts of the meal, the bread and the cup.

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Indeed our guard must be up for false teachings abound, even those as old as the Bible itself.

 

Armstrongism used to teach a version of keeping certain Jewish feasts and laws as being necessary for a true Christian. Their free magazine which seemed to be everywhere back in the 80s served them well in spreading this false teaching and confusing many folks, Christians and non-Christians alike.

 

The book of Hebrews addresses this prOBlem in great detail (as do some other passages elsewhere in the NT). I've noticed many who promote "Jewish Christianity" bristle when the book of Hebrews is mentioned and they quickly try to dismiss it.

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The Hebrew Roots Movement goes by the law.  They are law keepers.  Sadly, many Christians are following in that path.  It is very deceptive.  They teach about a Saturday Sabbath.  Totally unbiblical.  Either these Christians are lost, or they were never grounded in the word of God.  Only God knows the answer to that.  We are surely in the "great falling away."

Jewish Roots is a different story.  From my understanding they believe in "salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ."

 

I have no desire to learn either.  My KJV is sufficient.

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Candlelight, my experience has been that many people who join the Hebrew Roots Movement tend to be a little on the paranoid side. You will find many HRM followers in the raw vegan food circles and many in the doomsday prepping circles. I think that, for those people, law keeping is a form of superstition. Like they are terrified if they don't keep the law, something bad will happen to them. I've seen them on message forums panicking that they needed a mikvah (ritual bath), because they accidentally ate something with gelatin in it. Women sleeping on a plastic sheet covered sofa during their menstrual period so that their husbands won't become "unclean". People arguing among themselves about whether or not it's acceptable to sew on Shabbat, or use electricity in any form. Is it Yeshua or Ya'Hoshua or Y'shua? Is it Yah or Yahweh or YHVH or YWVH or G-d? People debating whether or not HRM people should keep the lesser festival days, like Purim and Hanukkah. Studying star and lunar charts to make sure they plan Shabbat and Havdalah for the precise times. It takes away so much from the simplicity of the Gospel message and causes much division.

 

It has reached a point where anybody serving in a leadership capacity in a "Messianic" congregation goes by "Kohen So-and-So" or "Rabbi Such-and-Such". As Bro. Mike stated, it's one thing to reenact the Passover to show how it was a shadow of things to come. How the Passover seder, and all of the accompanying symbolism involved, pointed to Jesus shedding His blood on the cross for us. When the curtain was ripped in half it is believed the Pharisees had it sewn back together and they continued sprinkling blood and putting bells and ropes on their high priests in case they did something wrong and they were smote in the Holy of Holies they could be dragged out. They continued this until the destruction of Herod's temple. And to this day, they don't believe the Messiah has come. 

 

What the HRM does today is like what the Pharisees did then - they tried to sew that curtain back together that separates man from God and are trying to sprinkle blood on the Mercy Seat through their works (law keeping) instead of seeing Christ's finished work on the cross. 

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LOL  Jim's Helpmeet.  It sounds like you have had your fill of them, too.  I had to go through my Facebook list and delete all these people, as they were spreading false doctrine all over my Timeline, years ago.  There is also a group that follow a man named Craig Winn.  He was a business man, from California, I believe.  He decided he would go by the Tanach and re-write the entire New Testament.  I remember they referred to Jesus as Yehushua, and were met with strong opposition by the IFB's on my Timeline.  I have one Messianic Jew on my "friend's" list.  However, he is saved.  We have talked about salvation.  He was saved out of the Messianic movement.  

Sadly, these people are so despised by the Jews, that the many Jews think the Messianics are like Bible believing Christians.  I know a few Jews who are saved.  At first they went into a Messianic temple and made a beeline for the door in three years tops.  Sadly, many of these Jews are now Torah OBservant (Orthodox) Jews.  Yet, they were raised in Secular Jewish homes.  The MJ's have pushed them back into their shuls.  Well, it is no wonder, b/c MJ's don't teach the deity of Jesus Christ.  They are so caught up in the law, and are "wanna be Jews" or they like to play dress up.  Jews who have escaped to Bible believing churches are many times in charismatic churches, as well.

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It tends to go one of two ways doesn't it? - either a person raised in a Jewish home accepts Jesus as their Savior and then joins a church that is full of errors, or a Christian goes into the Hebrew Roots Movement, and through a series of events denies Christ altogether and converts to full-blown Judaism. It's the progression of their false doctrine:

 

Heart for the nation of Israel>wanting to understand the Jewish faith and traditions of Jesus>wanting to identify with "spiritual Israel">Sabbath keeping>kosher diet>OBserving the feasts>claiming Paul's epistles were placed in the Bible by Constantine>now the validity of the entire New Testament is in question>the Trinity is a false doctrine created by goddess-worshiping Catholics>denial of the Deity of Christ>denial of Jesus altogether>conversion to Judaism 

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I was thinking of this over the past week. One passage of Scripture that I have presented to people belonging to the HRM is Galatians 2:21 and 3:1-2:

 

 

 

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.  O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not OBey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

I have yet to meet a person of the Hebraic Roots persuasion who can tell me how this passage doesn't negate their claim that we must keep the law, beyond "Paul was a false apostle and his writings were slipped into the Scriptures by Constantine". Another classic one they like to throw out there, to somehow claim we Christians (heaven forbid! They'd never call themselves Christians!) are too dumb to compose a proper exegesis of the passage in Galatians is 2 Peter 3:16-17. Interestingly enough, there are only two major translations that translate verse 17 to say "carried away by the error of the lawless" - the NIV and the ESV. The other translations are more OBscure and, of course, their "Hebrew translations" use the term "lawless" in that verse. The KJV says, "being led away with the error of the wicked". Basically, they claim Paul wrote in a manner that was too complicated for mere mortals to understand, therefore, people have abandoned Torah, because they simply misunderstood Paul.

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