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Hebrew Roots Sacred Name


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The Hebrew Roots Movement goes by the law.  They are law keepers.  Sadly, many Christians are following in that path.  It is very deceptive.  They teach about a Saturday Sabbath.  Totally unbiblical.  Either these Christians are lost, or they were never grounded in the word of God.  Only God knows the answer to that.  We are surely in the "great falling away."

Jewish Roots is a different story.  From my understanding they believe in "salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ."

 

I have no desire to learn either.  My KJV is sufficient.

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That theory was made popular by Arthur Koestler back in the early 70s. He was a German Communist trained of all places...gasp... the same Austrian Jesuit school that trained Hitler. It's becoming po

Candlelight, my experience has been that many people who join the Hebrew Roots Movement tend to be a little on the paranoid side. You will find many HRM followers in the raw vegan food circles and man

In 2007, Israel held the International Conference of Descendants showing that the Kohanim tribe are the sons of Aaron and from the tribe of Levi. There is even a website dedicated to this, and the Cen

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Candlelight, my experience has been that many people who join the Hebrew Roots Movement tend to be a little on the paranoid side. You will find many HRM followers in the raw vegan food circles and many in the doomsday prepping circles. I think that, for those people, law keeping is a form of superstition. Like they are terrified if they don't keep the law, something bad will happen to them. I've seen them on message forums panicking that they needed a mikvah (ritual bath), because they accidentally ate something with gelatin in it. Women sleeping on a plastic sheet covered sofa during their menstrual period so that their husbands won't become "unclean". People arguing among themselves about whether or not it's acceptable to sew on Shabbat, or use electricity in any form. Is it Yeshua or Ya'Hoshua or Y'shua? Is it Yah or Yahweh or YHVH or YWVH or G-d? People debating whether or not HRM people should keep the lesser festival days, like Purim and Hanukkah. Studying star and lunar charts to make sure they plan Shabbat and Havdalah for the precise times. It takes away so much from the simplicity of the Gospel message and causes much division.

 

It has reached a point where anybody serving in a leadership capacity in a "Messianic" congregation goes by "Kohen So-and-So" or "Rabbi Such-and-Such". As Bro. Mike stated, it's one thing to reenact the Passover to show how it was a shadow of things to come. How the Passover seder, and all of the accompanying symbolism involved, pointed to Jesus shedding His blood on the cross for us. When the curtain was ripped in half it is believed the Pharisees had it sewn back together and they continued sprinkling blood and putting bells and ropes on their high priests in case they did something wrong and they were smote in the Holy of Holies they could be dragged out. They continued this until the destruction of Herod's temple. And to this day, they don't believe the Messiah has come. 

 

What the HRM does today is like what the Pharisees did then - they tried to sew that curtain back together that separates man from God and are trying to sprinkle blood on the Mercy Seat through their works (law keeping) instead of seeing Christ's finished work on the cross. 

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LOL  Jim's Helpmeet.  It sounds like you have had your fill of them, too.  I had to go through my Facebook list and delete all these people, as they were spreading false doctrine all over my Timeline, years ago.  There is also a group that follow a man named Craig Winn.  He was a business man, from California, I believe.  He decided he would go by the Tanach and re-write the entire New Testament.  I remember they referred to Jesus as Yehushua, and were met with strong opposition by the IFB's on my Timeline.  I have one Messianic Jew on my "friend's" list.  However, he is saved.  We have talked about salvation.  He was saved out of the Messianic movement.  

Sadly, these people are so despised by the Jews, that the many Jews think the Messianics are like Bible believing Christians.  I know a few Jews who are saved.  At first they went into a Messianic temple and made a beeline for the door in three years tops.  Sadly, many of these Jews are now Torah OBservant (Orthodox) Jews.  Yet, they were raised in Secular Jewish homes.  The MJ's have pushed them back into their shuls.  Well, it is no wonder, b/c MJ's don't teach the deity of Jesus Christ.  They are so caught up in the law, and are "wanna be Jews" or they like to play dress up.  Jews who have escaped to Bible believing churches are many times in charismatic churches, as well.

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It tends to go one of two ways doesn't it? - either a person raised in a Jewish home accepts Jesus as their Savior and then joins a church that is full of errors, or a Christian goes into the Hebrew Roots Movement, and through a series of events denies Christ altogether and converts to full-blown Judaism. It's the progression of their false doctrine:

 

Heart for the nation of Israel>wanting to understand the Jewish faith and traditions of Jesus>wanting to identify with "spiritual Israel">Sabbath keeping>kosher diet>OBserving the feasts>claiming Paul's epistles were placed in the Bible by Constantine>now the validity of the entire New Testament is in question>the Trinity is a false doctrine created by goddess-worshiping Catholics>denial of the Deity of Christ>denial of Jesus altogether>conversion to Judaism 

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I was thinking of this over the past week. One passage of Scripture that I have presented to people belonging to the HRM is Galatians 2:21 and 3:1-2:

 

 

 

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.  O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not OBey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

I have yet to meet a person of the Hebraic Roots persuasion who can tell me how this passage doesn't negate their claim that we must keep the law, beyond "Paul was a false apostle and his writings were slipped into the Scriptures by Constantine". Another classic one they like to throw out there, to somehow claim we Christians (heaven forbid! They'd never call themselves Christians!) are too dumb to compose a proper exegesis of the passage in Galatians is 2 Peter 3:16-17. Interestingly enough, there are only two major translations that translate verse 17 to say "carried away by the error of the lawless" - the NIV and the ESV. The other translations are more OBscure and, of course, their "Hebrew translations" use the term "lawless" in that verse. The KJV says, "being led away with the error of the wicked". Basically, they claim Paul wrote in a manner that was too complicated for mere mortals to understand, therefore, people have abandoned Torah, because they simply misunderstood Paul.

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I was thinking of this over the past week. One passage of Scripture that I have presented to people belonging to the HRM is Galatians 2:21 and 3:1-2:

 

 

I have yet to meet a person of the Hebraic Roots persuasion who can tell me how this passage doesn't negate their claim that we must keep the law, beyond "Paul was a false apostle and his writings were slipped into the Scriptures by Constantine". Another classic one they like to throw out there, to somehow claim we Christians (heaven forbid! They'd never call themselves Christians!) are too dumb to compose a proper exegesis of the passage in Galatians is 2 Peter 3:16-17. Interestingly enough, there are only two major translations that translate verse 17 to say "carried away by the error of the lawless" - the NIV and the ESV. The other translations are more OBscure and, of course, their "Hebrew translations" use the term "lawless" in that verse. The KJV says, "being led away with the error of the wicked". Basically, they claim Paul wrote in a manner that was too complicated for mere mortals to understand, therefore, people have abandoned Torah, because they simply misunderstood Paul.

How clever of them to use those modern versions and come up with such a twisted interpretation!  Wow!  I know there many in the HRM who simply "hate" the apostle Paul.

 

JHM, have you seen this article on HRM?

The Hebrew Roots Cult Movement - Part 2
Hatred for Christians and the Apostle Paul

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I cannot believe the number of HRM people who despise the Apostle Paul.  They are simply modern day Judaizers.  As for the Bible?  They use to Complete Jewish Bible, which is a perverted Modern Version.  They despise the KJV and are under the delusion that King James wrote the KJV.  Many believe that the Hebrew names in the NT for the Jews, let's say James, were changed by King James.  They think Jame's name was changed from a Hebrew name, and King James used his name to glorify himself.  SMH  

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I cannot believe the number of HRM people who despise the Apostle Paul. They are simply modern day Judaizers. As for the Bible? They use to Complete Jewish Bible, which is a perverted Modern Version. They despise the KJV and are under the delusion that King James wrote the KJV. Many believe that the Hebrew names in the NT for the Jews, let's say James, were changed by King James. They think Jame's name was changed from a Hebrew name, and King James used his name to glorify himself. SMH

The accusation against the Apostle Paul, of being a fake, is the biggest thing I've heard.
They acknowledge Jesus as another prophet, but say that He never claimed to be God.

The Charismatic movement has led up to this generation being pointed towards either Judaism or Rome.
More signs of the approaching end.

Anishinaabe

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How clever of them to use those modern versions and come up with such a twisted interpretation!  Wow!  I know there many in the HRM who simply "hate" the apostle Paul.

 

JHM, have you seen this article on HRM?

The Hebrew Roots Cult Movement - Part 2
Hatred for Christians and the Apostle Paul

They have to. It's the only way to get around their Judaizing. I have been to the NTEB blog before, but I totally missed that article, so that you for posting that!

 

I cannot believe the number of HRM people who despise the Apostle Paul.  They are simply modern day Judaizers.  As for the Bible?  They use to Complete Jewish Bible, which is a perverted Modern Version.  They despise the KJV and are under the delusion that King James wrote the KJV.  Many believe that the Hebrew names in the NT for the Jews, let's say James, were changed by King James.  They think Jame's name was changed from a Hebrew name, and King James used his name to glorify himself.  SMH  

Yep. Another one they use is called the HalleluYAH Scriptures. That's a shady organization right there, owned by a couple from New Zealand (Max and Shalom Weiss) who have swindled untold thousands from their followers, as well as rOBbed their volunteers of their time. The website claims you can receive a free copy of the HalleluYAH Scriptures, as part of their ministry, but when you click to order they ask you make a minimum donation of $15 to cover media mail and administrative costs. For $500 you can receive the leather bound copy of the book. Wow! They also sell copies of "the lost books", such as the Book of Maccabees. One of their biggest associates here in the States is Alan Horvath - an aging hippie guitar player who converted from a lifestyle of rock and roll and now follows "the Hebrew way". It's hard to find a lot of information on him, but he's not a very pleasant person. According to some of the volunteers for the HalleluYAH Scriptures, Alan, along with Max and Shalom, have been known to bully and threaten the volunteers here in the States who diligently store and package, in their homes, copies of the book that have been ordered within the US. 

 

The accusation against the Apostle Paul, of being a fake, is the biggest thing I've heard.
They acknowledge Jesus as another prophet, but say that He never claimed to be God.

The Charismatic movement has led up to this generation being pointed towards either Judaism or Rome.
More signs of the approaching end.

Anishinaabe

Yeah, I know a lot of so-called "Messianic Jews" or Hebrew Roots people who deny the Trinity, Jesus' Deity. Sadly, a lot of Baptists are dabbling in this. Some friends from a former Baptist church I attended held a Passover seder, complete with wine. 

Edited by JimsHelpmeet
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JHM said:

"Yep. Another one they use is called the HalleluYAH Scriptures. That's a shady organization right there, owned by a couple from New Zealand (Max and Shalom Weiss) who have swindled untold thousands from their followers, as well as rOBbed their volunteers of their time. The website claims you can receive a free copy of the HalleluYAH Scriptures, as part of their ministry, but when you click to order they ask you make a minimum donation of $15 to cover media mail and administrative costs. For $500 you can receive the leather bound copy of the book. Wow! They also sell copies of "the lost books", such as the Book of Maccabees. One of their biggest associates here in the States is Alan Horvath - an aging hippie guitar player who converted from a lifestyle of rock and roll and now follows "the Hebrew way". It's hard to find a lot of information on him, but he's not a very pleasant person. According to some of the volunteers for the HalleluYAH Scriptures, Alan, along with Max and Shalom, have been known to bully and threaten the volunteers here in the States who diligently store and package, in their homes, copies of the book that have been ordered within the US."


Oh, yes!  Yah must be used.  Thanks for the name of the organization, JHM.  Oh, my word... what a scam!  Money grubbing thieves.  I am so tired of hearing them talk about the lost books.  SMH  I have told them that there are 66 books in the Bible and that is it!  I say, God didn't make a mistake when he wrote His word.  It fell on deaf ears, though.  Alan Horvath?  Another one?  Well, the HRM loves their rock and roll.  I scanned over a website that an HRM woman put on her Timeline, and listened to all of the sermon, rock and roll, and all.  After she insisted I call Jesus, Yeshua, and that Jesus = Zeus.  I told her what the Bible said, and politely un-friended her. Unbelievable!  That is the impression that I got from the HRM people.  These men have taught their followers to be bullies to Christians and Jews, along with other faiths.  It is so heartbreaking that they have fallen for this deceit.  As prophet said, "A sign of the times."  I merely say, the "falling away."  *sigh* 

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In part 1 of that NTEB article on Hebrew Roots, there is a picture of the "Restoration Scriptures: True Name Edition".  They don't say much about it in that article, so I'm going to do a little "digging".

 

I missed this, Linda.  I love NTEB.  What an awesome ministry!  I was friended by the IFB that runs that ministry, almost 6 years ago.

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I missed this, Linda.  I love NTEB.  What an awesome ministry!  I was friended by the IFB that runs that ministry, almost 6 years ago.

Geoffrey Grider?  I believe he has a page on FB.  He does have some interesting articles.  This one (in 2 parts) on the Hebrew Roots Cult Movement is excellent and I have posted the entire 2 part article (in small sections) on another forum board.

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Geoffrey Grider?  I believe he has a page on FB.  He does have some interesting articles.  This one (in 2 parts) on the Hebrew Roots Cult Movement is excellent and I have posted the entire 2 part article (in small sections) on another forum board.

 

Yes, Geoffrey Grider.  Oh, he has his another FB page?  He must have his own Timeline, NTEB - Now the End Begins - and another page that I didn't know about.  Can you find me the link of his new page with the entire 2 page article on it?  Thanks in advance:)

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Yes, Geoffrey Grider.  Oh, he has his another FB page?  He must have his own Timeline, NTEB - Now the End Begins - and another page that I didn't know about.  Can you find me the link of his new page with the entire 2 page article on it?  Thanks in advance:)

I'll send you Geoffrey Grider's FB timeline page in a PM
 

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Test - just trying to see how this works, I hit the "quote" button and it don't really work how I expected. So this is really a test post for me. sorry

 

Hmmm - nope, didn't work as I thought it wouldn't... I'll mess with it.

Edited by Letsgo
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Go to the post you want to respond to and click the 'quote' button on the right side of the post and it will show up in your response box at the bottom of the page.

Beware though, if you try to go back a page to look at something, you will lose anything you have already typed.

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I did that and it brings up a stream of topic. I post on other forums, just a couple, and that's the way it works; but for some reason when I select the "quote" button here, it gives me a stream and didn't isolate the post I was quoting. I will work on it.

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Ok  I will try to figure that out...I am not and don't want to be a "nerd" - sorry to you nerds out there...

If I wasn't so dense I would have remembered that prOBlem sooner. I downloaded Firefox so I could use that here. Prior to that I had only ever used Explorer and it worked fine until some new updates made things stop working fine.

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