Members beameup Posted September 6, 2013 Author Members Share Posted September 6, 2013 Darby publicly described his ecclesiological and eschatological views, including the pretribulation rapture in 1831 (harpazo in the Koine Gk). Dictionary of Premillennial Theology. Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications. 1996. ISBN 0-8254-2351-1. page 82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members swathdiver Posted September 6, 2013 Members Share Posted September 6, 2013 Greek schmeek, God wanted "falling away"; if He wanted "departure" our King James would say so! wretched and InSeasonOut 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted September 6, 2013 Members Share Posted September 6, 2013 How does this fit in all this? 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Can anyone explain just what this means, the timing, and how this piece fits into the end times puzzle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted September 6, 2013 Moderators Share Posted September 6, 2013 Can anyone explain just what this means, the timing, and how this piece fits into the end times puzzle? Not sure-did anyone go into the temple in 70ad and declare themself God? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beameup Posted September 6, 2013 Author Members Share Posted September 6, 2013 (edited) Can anyone explain just what this means, the timing, and how this piece fits into the end times puzzle? When the Bride of Christ ("Church") is taken to meet Jesus "in the air" and taken to heaven, and the indwelling Holy Spirit simultaneously removed, Satan and his angels will be cast to the earth. It's all a matter of "timing". It could happen at any moment. Time is short. Edited September 6, 2013 by beameup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted September 6, 2013 Members Share Posted September 6, 2013 Not sure-did anyone go into the temple in 70ad and declare themself God? Sorry, I'm confused. I asked the question regarding those verses with a totally open mind wondering what the answer is. I don't already have a view on this so I need some detail and/or context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted September 6, 2013 Members Share Posted September 6, 2013 When the Bride of Christ ("Church") is taken to meet Jesus "in the air" and taken to heaven, and the indwelling Holy Spirit simultaneously removed, Satan and his angels will be cast to the earth. It's all a matter of "timing". It could happen at any moment. Time is short. You are saying 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is referring to the rapture? Is the rest of what you mentioned in those verses somewhere or something from other Scripture you are using to help establish timing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beameup Posted September 7, 2013 Author Members Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) You are saying 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is referring to the rapture? Is the rest of what you mentioned in those verses somewhere or something from other Scripture you are using to help establish timing? That section of scripture goes through vs. 12. Compare scripture with scripture, rightly dividing, and be filled with the H.S. as you do. 1 Thes 4:13-18 PS: you need to stick with Paul, as to him was revealed the "mystery" of the Church - "the bride of Christ". Edited September 7, 2013 by beameup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted September 7, 2013 Members Share Posted September 7, 2013 That section of scripture goes through vs. 12. Compare scripture with scripture, rightly dividing, and be filled with the H.S. as you do. 1 Thes 4:13-18 PS: you need to stick with Paul, as to him was revealed the "mystery" of the Church - "the bride of Christ". Do you believe this is speaking of the rapture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beameup Posted September 7, 2013 Author Members Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) "caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air" [from 1 Thes 4:17 KJV] harpazo - to (violently) snatch out or away harpazo is rendered rapturo in the Latin Vulgate Note that it is "in the air" not upon the earth. This is not the "second coming" where Jesus returns TO the earth. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away (harpazo) Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. Acts 8:39 Edited September 7, 2013 by beameup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted September 7, 2013 Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2013 Sorry, I'm confused. I asked the question regarding those verses with a totally open mind wondering what the answer is. I don't already have a view on this so I need some detail and/or context. I ws agreeing with you on the need for an answer to the question-I suppose I could have worded it better. John81 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted September 7, 2013 Members Share Posted September 7, 2013 "falling away" should have been translated "departure" as was the case in the five English translations prior to the King James. Thus it would indicate a "departure" of the Saints (harpazo) as well as a "departure" to a different Gospel (Antichrist, "the Lie"). No, falling away fits it perfectly, for many will fall away, the KJ has it right. swathdiver 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invicta Posted September 7, 2013 Members Share Posted September 7, 2013 Many have fallen away all through the centuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invicta Posted September 7, 2013 Members Share Posted September 7, 2013 "caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air" [from 1 Thes 4:17 KJV] harpazo - to (violently) snatch out or away harpazo is rendered rapturo in the Latin Vulgate Note that it is "in the air" not upon the earth. This is not the "second coming" where Jesus returns TO the earth. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away (harpazo) Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. Acts 8:39 We will meet the Lord in the air. But the Brethren teaching that He is only coming to the air, is false. He is returning to the earth and we will meet Him in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted September 7, 2013 Members Share Posted September 7, 2013 How does this fit in all this? 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. John, cast your mind back to AD 50 when Paul wrote the 2 letters to the Thessalonians. Jesus' Olivet prophecy was still unfulfilled; the generation that rejected its Messiah was still living, still in control of Jerusalem, & still worshipping in the temple. Jesus would not return while the temple was standing. Paul presumably told the Ts Jesus prophecy, so that we need not think his word to the Ts is secret to us. I recommend reading both letters as an entity, ignoring the chapter breaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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