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Absent From The Body Present With The Lord....dead In Christ Shall Rise

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I am not sure if this has already been discussed here anywhere, but if it has I am sorry I missed it.

 

This has been a puzzling area for me and I would love to read and receive some insight on it.  It's regarding being a Christian and passing on versus the Resurrection.  
 

 

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV 1900)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

 

This verse says to me, to be absent from our body (death) is to be present with the Lord.  

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:51–54 (KJV 1900)

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible 

must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

It appears to me that these two areas of scripture are opposing each other.  I have read that when a Christian dies they go to sleep per say and will remain that way until Jesus comes again and at that time the souls in Christ will rise first and become present with the LORD.  

 

Another area that needs clarifying is God's judgement....are we judged when we die or when we are resurrected?  

 

Looking for biblical truth.

 

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"What happens after death?"

In the Christian faith, there is much confusion regarding what happens after death. Some believe that after death, everyone “sleeps” until the final judgment, after which everyone will be sent to heaven or hell. Others believe that at the moment of death, people are instantly judged and sent to their eternal destinations. Still others claim that when people die, their souls/spirits are sent to a “temporary” heaven or hell, to await the final resurrection, the final judgment, and then the finality of their eternal destination. What do you say... what exactly does the Bible say happens after death?

 

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When the Christian dies, their body is buried, & their soul goes to be with the Lord.

 

When Jesus comes for His own your soul will come back with Him, at which time your glorified body will rise into the air to meet your soul, after this has taken place them those who are alive at His coming will be resurrected & changed.

 

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 
Hope that helps.
 
Added though.
 
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
 
The born again believer has something that even the grave digger cannot bury.

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I've always been taught that the Judgement Seat of Christ is a one-time, end of time event.

My friends and I were discussing this a couple nights ago. One of them had an explanation for this 'inconsistency.' Essentially, the idea is that time, as we experience it, is limited to this universe/existence. Eternity, as God experiences it, is not constrained by time (a day is as a thousand years, etc.). When we die, we temporarily step outside the limits of time. We re-enter it at the events of the end. Therefore, as far as we are consciously aware, we closed our eyes in death and were instantly with The Lord at the end. Those left behind might see that as sleeping, because they're still constrained by understanding events through the lenses of time. For the deceased believer, no time passes. He has essentially stepped outside time.

That's the general idea. I'm still processing it, and how the details would work, but it seems like a plausible way of explaining those verses.

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I've always been taught that the Judgement Seat of Christ is a one-time, end of time event.

My friends and I were discussing this a couple nights ago. One of them had an explanation for this 'inconsistency.' Essentially, the idea is that time, as we experience it, is limited to this universe/existence. Eternity, as God experiences it, is not constrained by time (a day is as a thousand years, etc.). When we die, we temporarily step outside the limits of time. We re-enter it at the events of the end. Therefore, as far as we are consciously aware, we closed our eyes in death and were instantly with The Lord at the end. Those left behind might see that as sleeping, because they're still constrained by understanding events through the lenses of time. For the deceased believer, no time passes. He has essentially stepped outside time.

That's the general idea. I'm still processing it, and how the details would work, but it seems like a plausible way of explaining those verses.

 

Yes, but the judgment does not happen at your death, the judgment will not be made whether you will got to Heaven or not, that was decided the moment you trusted Jesus as Savior. After Jesus comes for His own we will be judged whether we will receive rewards or lose rewards. Sadly many will lose all of their rewards.

 

Re 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
And of course, those who die rejecting Jesus at death their souls will go to Hell, see Luke 16:18-31,, them in the end they will face judgment to see what their punishment will be at the Great White Throne.
 
Re 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

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Yes, but the judgment does not happen at your death, the judgment will not be made whether you will got to Heaven or not, that was decided the moment you trusted Jesus as Savior. After Jesus comes for His own we will be judged whether we will receive rewards or lose rewards. Sadly many will lose all of their rewards.

Re 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

And of course, those who die rejecting Jesus at death their souls will go to Hell, see Luke 16:18-31,, them in the end they will face judgment to see what their punishment will be at the Great White Throne.


Re 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


Yes, that's what I said.

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"What happens after death?"

In the Christian faith, there is much confusion regarding what happens after death. Some believe that after death, everyone “sleeps” until the final judgment, after which everyone will be sent to heaven or hell. Others believe that at the moment of death, people are instantly judged and sent to their eternal destinations. Still others claim that when people die, their souls/spirits are sent to a “temporary” heaven or hell, to await the final resurrection, the final judgment, and then the finality of their eternal destination. What do you say... what exactly does the Bible say happens after death?

 

 

 

That comes mainly from the RCC & those who have come from among them, & of course they do not abide by the Bible, they teach doctrine of man for commandment of God.

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Quote:

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV 1900)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.(end quote)

 

I believe that this verse is one of the most mis-quoted verses in the Bible.  I have heard many great preachers and lay people quote it the way you did, but if you read it carefully, Paul makes no such statement, he merely says he would rather be with the Lord, than here on earth.  Don't get me wrong, I believe that we go immediately to heaven when we die, as Lazurus did accompanied by angels, but I don't believe this verse says that.

 

Luk 16:22  And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

 

Many speculate that "Abraham's bosom was a place called paradise, where one thief was to meet Jesus that very day (Lk. 23:43), and Paul spoke of in 1 Cor. 12:4 (read the text).  Many say this is the "holding place" you spoke of, ("temporary heaven or hell).  There is not much info given us that we can say 100% this is so.  In Rev. 2:7 "Paradise" sounds a little like Eden, and it is speculated that God took it up to heaven after the fall of man.  He talks as if it was present then ("which is in the midst of the Paradise of God")

 

Again, there is little matter-of-fact evidence as to the doctrine of paradise, perhaps others can shed more light on it.


 

Edited by irishman

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Quote:

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV 1900)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.(end quote)

 

I believe that this verse is one of the most mis-quoted verses in the Bible.  I have heard many great preachers and lay people quote it the way you did, but if you read it carefully, Paul makes no such statement, he merely says he would rather be with the Lord, than here on earth.  Don't get me wrong, I believe that we go immediately to heaven when we die, as Lazurus did accompanied by angels, but I don't believe this verse says that.

 

Luk 16:22  And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

 

 


I also believe we go immediately to be with the Lord upon our death if we have accepted Christ, however, how do you explain 1 Thessalonians 4 13-18

 

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

 

 

The above scripture looks to be saying that those that have passed in Christ and are in the grave are "asleep" rather then already being present with the LORD?

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Quote:

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV 1900)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.(end quote)

 

I believe that this verse is one of the most mis-quoted verses in the Bible.  I have heard many great preachers and lay people quote it the way you did, but if you read it carefully, Paul makes no such statement, he merely says he would rather be with the Lord, than here on earth.  Don't get me wrong, I believe that we go immediately to heaven when we die, as Lazurus did accompanied by angels, but I don't believe this verse says that.

 

Luk 16:22  And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

 

Many speculate that "Abraham's bosom was a place called paradise, where one thief was to meet Jesus that very day (Lk. 23:43), and Paul spoke of in 1 Cor. 12:4 (read the text).  Many say this is the "holding place" you spoke of, ("temporary heaven or hell).  There is not much info given us that we can say 100% this is so.  In Rev. 2:7 "Paradise" sounds a little like Eden, and it is speculated that God took it up to heaven after the fall of man.  He talks as if it was present then ("which is in the midst of the Paradise of God")

 

Again, there is little matter-of-fact evidence as to the doctrine of paradise, perhaps others can shed more light on it.


 

 

Doesn't the Bible say that Christ was in the heart of the earth? Thus paradise/Abraham's bosom/Hades had to be in the middle of the earth, rather than up in heaven.  Also, doctrinally wouldn't there be issues with believers saved by faith being in heaven when Christ had not yet died on the cross.

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If Jesus bring the souls of them who have died in Christ with Him when He comes for His own them the souls of them who died in Christ has to be in Heaven with Him.

 

Yet until Jesus death, burial, & resurrection the souls of the saved went to Paradise, Luke 16:18-31, which is beneath the surface of this earth but during Jesus; death burial, & resurrection Jesus took them to Heaven.

 

And of course in Paradise their was a great gulf between Hell & where Abraham & Lazarus was.

 

Lu 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

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Lazarus was carried by the angels to "Abraham's bosom" ...the rich man died and was buried (Luke 16:22).  Abraham's bosom refers to a place OF paradise (not paradise itself) where believing Jews rested after death.  There was a great gulf fixed between Abraham's bosom and hell (Luke 16:26)

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I didn't say there were two "paradises".  There is only one paradise and one place that was called "Abraham's bosom", which is not paradise, but a place where believing Jews rested after death, before the resurrection of Christ.  Does one rest in hell?  Paradise has always been  located in the third heaven (2 Cor. 12:2-4).  When was "paradise" moved?

 

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

Salyan, why do you say we are off topic?

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Next to the place of suffering. "A great gulf fixed" between them. Refer to the story (not a parable) of Lazarus and the rich man.

 

Right on, Its not a parable, yet many there be that claims its only a parable.

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I didn't say there were two "paradises".  There is only one paradise and one place that was called "Abraham's bosom", which is not paradise, but a place where believing Jews rested after death, before the resurrection of Christ.  Does one rest in hell?  Paradise has always been  located in the third heaven (2 Cor. 12:2-4).  When was "paradise" moved?

 

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

Salyan, why do you say we are off topic?

 

I agree that there may not be two paradises, but what about the place Paul was caught up into (2 Cor. 12:4) , was that not paradise?  If so, it is not the same as the paradise Jesus spoke of on the cross, or is it? Lk. 23:43) if so,  It cannot be hades then.

 

I have to agree with SFIC this time.

Edited by irishman

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