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Absent From The Body Present With The Lord....dead In Christ Shall Rise


Jesuspaiditall4all

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2Co 5:1 ¶ For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
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I am not sure if this has already been discussed here anywhere, but if it has I am sorry I missed it.

 

This has been a puzzling area for me and I would love to read and receive some insight on it.  It's regarding being a Christian and passing on versus the Resurrection.  
 

 

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV 1900)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

 

This verse says to me, to be absent from our body (death) is to be present with the Lord.  

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:51–54 (KJV 1900)

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible 

must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

It appears to me that these two areas of scripture are opposing each other.  I have read that when a Christian dies they go to sleep per say and will remain that way until Jesus comes again and at that time the souls in Christ will rise first and become present with the LORD.  

 

Another area that needs clarifying is God's judgement....are we judged when we die or when we are resurrected?  

 

Looking for biblical truth.

 

I Thess. 4:14

 

[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

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"What happens after death?"

In the Christian faith, there is much confusion regarding what happens after death. Some believe that after death, everyone “sleeps” until the final judgment, after which everyone will be sent to heaven or hell. Others believe that at the moment of death, people are instantly judged and sent to their eternal destinations. Still others claim that when people die, their souls/spirits are sent to a “temporary” heaven or hell, to await the final resurrection, the final judgment, and then the finality of their eternal destination. What do you say... what exactly does the Bible say happens after death?

 

We sleep in Jesus.  The judgement seat takes place on the "day of Christ" which begans after the rapture.

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Yes, sad to say there's some preachers that says at funeral services that the departed has gone on to his or her rewards, but that is completely false. No child of God will receive their rewards until right after the rapture.

 

1Jo 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

 

When He appears on that day some will be ashamed. What will Jesus catch you doing on that day when He comes for His brothers & sisters?

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Yes, sad to say there's some preachers that says at funeral services that the departed has gone on to his or her rewards, but that is completely false. No child of God will receive their rewards until right after the rapture.

 

1Jo 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

 

When He appears on that day some will be ashamed. What will Jesus catch you doing on that day when He comes for His brothers & sisters?

 

So what you are saying Jerry Numbers is that those that have passed on in Christ, are currently 'sleeping' (they are not in heaven yet) but rather asleep, until the rapture when they will be taken up to heaven at that time??

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DEATH IS A JOURNEY. Some false teachers say that death is a sleep, but according to the Bible, death is a journey. The body sleeps, but the spirit of man journeys either to Heaven or to Hell. The O.T. teaches that death is a journey (Genesis 25:8; 35:18; Numbers 27:13; 2 Samuel 12:23; 1 Kings 17:21-22).

 

(7) The dead saints are said to return with Christ from heaven at the time of the resurrection and rapture of the saved. This shows that dead saints go to Heaven at death. "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him" (1 Thessalonians 4:14). (Way of Life Encyclopedia:  DEATH)

 

It is only the BODY which "sleeps" in the grave, not the spirit/soul.

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So what you are saying Jerry Numbers is that those that have passed on in Christ, are currently 'sleeping' (they are not in heaven yet) but rather asleep, until the rapture when they will be taken up to heaven at that time??

 

You need to reread all my post, I did not even come close to stating such a thing.

 

I stated, when the Christian dies their soul goes to Heaven to be with Jesus, their body goes into the grave, when Jesus comes for His own their body will be resurrected & will meet their soul in the air, them those who are alive at His coming will be change & caught up.

 

Soul sleep is a false doctrine, & its not taught in the pages of the Bible.

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You need to reread all my post, I did not even come close to stating such a thing.

 

I stated, when the Christian dies their soul goes to Heaven to be with Jesus, their body goes into the grave, when Jesus comes for His own their body will be resurrected & will meet their soul in the air, them those who are alive at His coming will be change & caught up.

 

Soul sleep is a false doctrine, & its not taught in the pages of the Bible.

 

Sorry for my misunderstanding....thanks for clearing it up for me though!!  :)

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Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 

Surely no one would deny that Jesus did this.

 

Bro Jerry, I did not say, or mean to imply, that I don't believe that Jesus did what the scripture says He did, I question our interpretation of it, and all the little "pieces" we put together to make a doctrine out of it, then teach it as fact.

 

There is much the Bible does not say, and we are good at filling in the gaps.

 

One point to consider is that Jesus promised the thief on the cross that "Today" they would meet in paradise.  That means that Jesus went to paradise that same day (Lk 23:43), yet Paul was also caught up into paradise (2 Cor. 12:2-4) After Christ's resurrection, and the graves were opened (Mt.27:52,53) so, was that the same "paradise?"  It would have to be.  Paul made it sound as if it was "the third heaven" (2 Cor. 12:2 and 2 Cor. 12:4, where Paradise is mentioned.)  The thief, then, went to the third heaven the very day that Jesus died, right?  That sounds less feasible than my illustration that you objected to (which was more of a query than a stated doctrine), but it is all conjecture anyway.

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Until Jesus' death, burial, resurrection, saved souls did not got to Heaven, see Lazarus & the rich man, they were separated by a great gulf. But after Jesus death, burial, resurrection, they went to Heaven, & as I have shown Jesus will bring them back with Him at his coming.

 

Now, you may see it some other way, but we need some Scriptures to back it up.

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So what you are saying Jerry Numbers is that those that have passed on in Christ, are currently 'sleeping' (they are not in heaven yet) but rather asleep, until the rapture when they will be taken up to heaven at that time??

Nobody is sleeping in the grave but the bible does say that those who have died "sleep in Jesus". I don't understand what this completely means to be honest. I know that those who are slain during the tribulation have their souls kept under the altar but that is a different group of people altogether.

 

It's doesn't make sense when you say someone is asleep in Jesus when you are just referring to a dead body in ground that is returning to dust. It seems there is more to it than this. Especially if we are to say the real person has gone on to heaven. How can that corrupt body be said to sleep in Jesus. It seems to me that the phrase is a reference to the state of a believer's spirit/soul and not their body. There are plenty of bodies of the saints that are long gone and no longer exist, period (unless you want to talk of the law of physics where matter cannot be completely destroyed).

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Nobody is sleeping in the grave but the bible does say that those who have died "sleep in Jesus". I don't understand what this completely means to be honest. I know that those who are slain during the tribulation have their souls kept under the altar but that is a different group of people altogether.

 

It's doesn't make sense when you say someone is asleep in Jesus when you are just referring to a dead body in ground that is returning to dust. It seems there is more to it than this. Especially if we are to say the real person has gone on to heaven. How can that corrupt body be said to sleep in Jesus. It seems to me that the phrase is a reference to the state of a believer's spirit/soul and not their body. There are plenty of bodies of the saints that are long gone and no longer exist, period (unless you want to talk of the law of physics where matter cannot be completely destroyed).

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

Who are "them also which sleep in Jesus"?  God is able to "resurrect" the totally decayed, burnt, drowned, decapitated, etc. bodies and reunite them with those souls of those born again believers who went on to be "present with the Lord" at the time they physically died, by whatever means they died.

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I believe your explanation has made it clearer for me and if I understood what you stated from the scripture I quoted, I understand it to mean.....

When a believer dies their soul goes directly to be with the LORD and then in the future when Jesus returns, at that time those bodies who are asleep (dead in Christ)  will be transformed to their new heavenly bodies and will rise first and go directly to heaven?

So if I have understood correctly, that leads me to wonder what their bodies are now?  All those currently in heaven are they just a group of heavenly souls without a body or face?  How will they recognize their loved ones who have gone on before them??

This explanation has opened up a whole new set of questions for me....that is if I understood you properly??

 

Sister "Jesuspaiditall4all,"

 

You have indeed understood correctly.  Concerning your further questions, believers who have died and are in heaven at the present time would not possess physical "bodies" at tha present time, but would exist in heaven only in soul-spirit form.  However, this does not mean that they have no recognizable form or face to one another.  According to God's Word, the angels are spirit beings by nature.  Yet God's Word seems to indicate that the angels as spirits do possess a recognizable and distinguishable "spirit-form" one from the other.  Thus I would conjecture that at present believers in heaven also possess such a "spirit-form" that includes a "spirit-face," whereby they can recognize and distinguish one another.

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It's doesn't make sense when you say someone is asleep in Jesus when you are just referring to a dead body in ground that is returning to dust. It seems there is more to it than this. Especially if we are to say the real person has gone on to heaven. How can that corrupt body be said to sleep in Jesus. It seems to me that the phrase is a reference to the state of a believer's spirit/soul and not their body. There are plenty of bodies of the saints that are long gone and no longer exist, period (unless you want to talk of the law of physics where matter cannot be completely destroyed).

 

Brother "SongOfDegrees,"

 

Throughout God's Word the picture of "sleep" is often employed for the reality of death (at least for believers).  This appears to be due to the physical appearance of a dead body, that it is in a deep sleep.  However, the phrase that you have referenced from 1 Thessalonians 4:13 ("sleep in Jesus") is worthy of addition consideration.  Grammatically, the second half of this verse indicates that God (the subject) will bring (the verb) certain individuals (the direct object designated by the word "them") with Him (that is -- with the Lord Jesus Christ when He comes for the "catching-up" event).  The certain individual that this verse indicates will be brought with the Lord Jesus Christ are grammatically designated by the pronoun "them" and the modifying adjective clause -- "which sleep in Jesus."  Thus the specific ones whom this verse designates as being brought back from heaven with the Lord are those who "sleep in Jesus."  Yet their dead bodies are not that part of them that are being brought back, for their dead bodies remained on the earth to return unto the dust.  Rather, it is their soul-spirit that will be brought back from heaven with the Lord.  So then, this verse would be presenting the following equivalency --

 

          the soul-spirit of dead believers will be brought back = them that sleep in Jesus will be brought back

 

Indeed, this equivalency seems to indicate that the present condition of the soul-spirit of dead believers may be defined as being "asleep in Jesus."  What then is this condition of being "asleep in Jesus" in this soul-spirit form.  Since God's Word teaches that in death a believer's soul-spirit is absent from the body and is present with the Lord, this cannot refer to the limbo state that is taught by the doctrine of "soul-sleep."  However, the idea of "sleep" does communicate a picture of "resting."  Furthermore, Revelation 14:13 speaks concerning those who "die in the Lord," saying, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."  Thus I would contend that to be "asleep in Jesus" means to be at heavenly rest from the labors of this life.

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