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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
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      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Tithe With Out A Cheerful Heart?

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The Glory Land
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Yes, I was. But no longer go to that particular Church.



You have every right to be angry, but you did your part and God knows your heart. Fear not in well doing my friend, for our salvation is not in what we give but in who we believe. God does not need our money. If he can use us for small things, then he will give us bigger things too do.
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You have every right to be angry, but you did your part and God knows your heart. Fear not in well doing my friend, for our salvation is not in what we give but in who we believe. God does not need our money. If he can use us for small things, then he will give us bigger things too do

 

 

You are only hearing the part of the story SFIC wants you to hear.  He was teaching the people at the church that they did not need to give at all, that the Pastor was lying to them and caused a huge division in the church.  The fact is on a previous discussion STIF admitted that he never gives as much as 10% because he does not think he needs to.  The issue and his reason for lashing out at everyone is his love of money.  They were asked to leave the church not because of his opinion of tithing but because they were causing strife and division.  That is the truth and is a correct reason to ask them to leave.  Do the research for yourself, I did.  Then you understand why he is so passionate about proving this point.

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Is it not clear the back and forth in this manner is unedifying and even counterproductive?

 

Most of this has been bandied back and forth countless times, here and in several other threads. Better for all involved to stop replying and move on.

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Is it not clear the back and forth in this manner is unedifying and even counterproductive?

Most of this has been bandied back and forth countless times, here and in several other threads. Better for all involved to stop replying and move on.



Lets move onto a new topic, I agree.

For the Love of Money is the root of all evilness.

Edited by The Glory Land
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Is it not clear the back and forth in this manner is unedifying and even counterproductive?

 

Most of this has been bandied back and forth countless times, here and in several other threads. Better for all involved to stop replying and move on.

I actually agree very much with this statement.  But if we are going to "claim" we are giving the truth, the entire truth needs to be told.  This should be a "locked" topic forever, it is up to each to study the Bible and do as you are led.

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You are only hearing the part of the story SFIC wants you to hear.  He was teaching the people at the church that they did not need to give at all, that the Pastor was lying to them and caused a huge division in the church.  The fact is on a previous discussion STIF admitted that he never gives as much as 10% because he does not think he needs to.  The issue and his reason for lashing out at everyone is his love of money.  They were asked to leave the church not because of his opinion of tithing but because they were causing strife and division.  That is the truth and is a correct reason to ask them to leave.  Do the research for yourself, I did.  Then you understand why he is so passionate about proving this point.

You are bearing false witness, TOP.  I was not teaching at the Church... I was teaching on the Internet and on Facebook.  And I was not telling people not to give at all.  I always told people to give what they purposed in their heart to give.  That the Church has needs and if they could meet that need, they should.

I did not cause a huge division in the Church either.  Matter of fact, the secret meeting they had had a unanimous vote to kick my wife and I out.  Doesn't sound like they were divided to me.

TGL, I hope you can see the agenda that TOP has... to destroy my character through lies.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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I actually agree very much with this statement.  But if we are going to "claim" we are giving the truth, the entire truth needs to be told.  This should be a "locked" topic forever, it is up to each to study the Bible and do as you are led.

Locked forever???

Why?  Are you afraid someone from your Church might learn the truth about what God expects of them?  Because if someone from your Church might come to realize that the tithe ended with Christ as the Bible clearly says?

Don't want them to learn the truth.  That would be wrong.  Don't let the Truth continue.  Lock the thread.  Delete any tithe thread that either Ron or Linda has posted in.  We don't want anyone to find out the truth.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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Here's an example of a greedy pastor - One who takes money from those who can't afford a car and uses that money to buy a luxury car for himself.

Another example - One who takes money from those who are worse off than himself.  In other words, one who raises his standard of living at the expense of those living a lower standard of living. AND DOING IT BY MANIPULATING PEOPLE INTO BELIEVING THEY ARE GIVING IT TO GOD!!!!!

Now please tell me - where is the PASTOR'S heart when he takes from those who have less than he has?
 

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You are only hearing the part of the story SFIC wants you to hear.  He was teaching the people at the church that they did not need to give at all, that the Pastor was lying to them and caused a huge division in the church.  The fact is on a previous discussion STIF admitted that he never gives as much as 10% because he does not think he needs to.  The issue and his reason for lashing out at everyone is his love of money.  They were asked to leave the church not because of his opinion of tithing but because they were causing strife and division.  That is the truth and is a correct reason to ask them to leave.  Do the research for yourself, I did.  Then you understand why he is so passionate about proving this point.

Everything you have stated here are boldfaced lies!  Either present your source(s) of information or admit you are lying.

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I often hear church goers and pastors say they didn't have money then, or that money wasn't commonly used then, etc. etc.  That is pure nonsense.

 

In contrast to the view that the tithes are used to fund the expenses of the church, money (not food) was collected separately by the priests and Levites from all Israel annually to maintain the temple (see 2 Chron 24:5, Neh 10:32). There was also other freewill giving of money to the house of God as seen in 2 King 12:4.

2 Chronicles 24:5 (KJV)
5And he gathered together the priests and the Levites, and said to them, Go out unto the cities of Judah, and gather of all Israel money to repair the house of your God from year to year, and see that ye hasten the matter. Howbeit the Levites hastened it not.

Nehemiah 10:32 (KJV)
32Also we made ordinances for us, to charge ourselves yearly with the third part of a shekel for the service of the house of our God;

2 Kings 12:4-5 (KJV)
4And Jehoash said to the priests, All the money of the dedicated things that is brought into the house of the LORD, even the money of every one that passeth the account, the money that every man is set at, and all the money that cometh into any man’s heart to bring into the house of the LORD,
5Let the priests take it to them, every man of his acquaintance: and let them repair the breaches of the house, wheresoever any breach shall be found.

Aside from the tithe of produce the priests received money as a type of poll tax on the first born ofIsrael(Num 3:45-51). They also collected money for the atonement of sins demonstrated in Exo 30:16, and which was used for the service of the tabernacle. In 2 Kings 12:16 the priests received the sin and trespass money which was not brought to the house of the Lord but belonged to the priests.

2 Kings 12:16 (KJV)
16The trespass money and sin money was not brought into the house of the LORD: it was the priests’.

Numbers 3:45-51 (KJV)
45Take the Levites instead of all the firstborn among the children of Israel, and the cattle of the Levites instead of their cattle; and the Levites shall be mine: I am the LORD.
46And for those that are to be redeemed of the two hundred and threescore and thirteen of the firstborn of the children of Israel, which are more than the Levites;
47Thou shalt even take five shekels apiece by the poll, after the shekel of the sanctuary shalt thou take them: (the shekel is twenty gerahs:)
48And thou shalt give the money, wherewith the odd number of them is to be redeemed, unto Aaron and to his sons.
49And Moses took the redemption money of them that were over and above them that were redeemed by the Levites:
50Of the firstborn of the children of Israel took he the money; a thousand three hundred and threescore and five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary:
51And Moses gave the money of them that were redeemed unto Aaron and to his sons, according to the word of the LORD, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Exodus 30:16 (KJV)
16And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.

One of the clearest passages of scripture which demonstrates that the tithe was nothing other than food can be found in Neh 10. In this chapter we see in verse 34 where wood for example, was given as an offering but it was not included in the tithes. In verse 32 we also note they contributed money annually for the service of the temple and again this was separate from the tithes which we come to realise when we get to verses 37 and 38. Here we note that the tithes were collected from the agricultural cities (cities of the tillage) only thus confirming what I said earlier that only food producers were required to tithe and that the tithe was never money. To add to that, what we notice from the New Testament scriptures is that the practice of tithing produce existed up to Jesus’ time as the Pharisees tithe herbs of mint, dill and cumin (Matt 23:23). This was clearly the practice of tithing and money was given separately to the temple treasury as we see in Mark 12:41. It is noteworthy to mention here that those who argue that Jesus did not abolish tithing, citing Matt 23:23, by the same logic refuses to acknowledge that the tithe was not money or the equivalent of earnings but food produce from food producers only. If Jesus did not change the tithe law then the tithe remains a tenth part of produce only from food producers. This point however is lost on “pro-tithers”. We note from Luke 16:14 that the Pharisees loved money yet Jesus did not rebuke them for tithing herbs instead of money and this is because under the law only produce could be tithed. It should be noted here also that people who were engaged with other professions but who also tilled the land on the side were also required to tithe of the produce of the ground. They did not however tithe of their income from their profession.
 

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Here's an example of a greedy pastor - One who takes money from those who can't afford a car and uses that money to buy a luxury car for himself.

Another example - One who takes money from those who are worse off than himself.  In other words, one who raises his standard of living at the expense of those living a lower standard of living. AND DOING IT BY MANIPULATING PEOPLE INTO BELIEVING THEY ARE GIVING IT TO GOD!!!!!

Now please tell me - where is the PASTOR'S heart when he takes from those who have less than he has?
 

So are you saying that the pastor must be the poorest member in his church?

 

I've been dirt poor most of my 45 years and I don't have a problem giving to a church with a pastor who's doing pretty good as long as he ministers faithfully in the word and doctrine and isn't preaching the word in a way to please certain members of his church or community. I really could care less what kind of car he's driving or what his mortgage is.

Edited by ASongOfDegrees
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So are you saying that the pastor must be the poorest member in his church?

 

No, I didn't say that at all.  I gave an example of a greedy pastor.  I did not say or infer that all pastors who have more than those in the congregation are greedy.

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I often hear church goers and pastors say they didn't have money then, or that money wasn't commonly used then, etc. etc.  That is pure nonsense.

 

In contrast to the view that the tithes are used to fund the expenses of the church, money (not food) was collected separately by the priests and Levites from all Israel annually to maintain the temple (see 2 Chron 24:5, Neh 10:32). There was also other freewill giving of money to the house of God as seen in 2 King 12:4.

2 Chronicles 24:5 (KJV)
5And he gathered together the priests and the Levites, and said to them, Go out unto the cities of Judah, and gather of all Israel money to repair the house of your God from year to year, and see that ye hasten the matter. Howbeit the Levites hastened it not.

Nehemiah 10:32 (KJV)
32Also we made ordinances for us, to charge ourselves yearly with the third part of a shekel for the service of the house of our God;

2 Kings 12:4-5 (KJV)
4And Jehoash said to the priests, All the money of the dedicated things that is brought into the house of the LORD, even the money of every one that passeth the account, the money that every man is set at, and all the money that cometh into any man’s heart to bring into the house of the LORD,
5Let the priests take it to them, every man of his acquaintance: and let them repair the breaches of the house, wheresoever any breach shall be found.

Aside from the tithe of produce the priests received money as a type of poll tax on the first born ofIsrael(Num 3:45-51). They also collected money for the atonement of sins demonstrated in Exo 30:16, and which was used for the service of the tabernacle. In 2 Kings 12:16 the priests received the sin and trespass money which was not brought to the house of the Lord but belonged to the priests.

2 Kings 12:16 (KJV)
16The trespass money and sin money was not brought into the house of the LORD: it was the priests’.

Numbers 3:45-51 (KJV)
45Take the Levites instead of all the firstborn among the children of Israel, and the cattle of the Levites instead of their cattle; and the Levites shall be mine: I am the LORD.
46And for those that are to be redeemed of the two hundred and threescore and thirteen of the firstborn of the children of Israel, which are more than the Levites;
47Thou shalt even take five shekels apiece by the poll, after the shekel of the sanctuary shalt thou take them: (the shekel is twenty gerahs:)
48And thou shalt give the money, wherewith the odd number of them is to be redeemed, unto Aaron and to his sons.
49And Moses took the redemption money of them that were over and above them that were redeemed by the Levites:
50Of the firstborn of the children of Israel took he the money; a thousand three hundred and threescore and five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary:
51And Moses gave the money of them that were redeemed unto Aaron and to his sons, according to the word of the LORD, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Exodus 30:16 (KJV)
16And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.

One of the clearest passages of scripture which demonstrates that the tithe was nothing other than food can be found in Neh 10. In this chapter we see in verse 34 where wood for example, was given as an offering but it was not included in the tithes. In verse 32 we also note they contributed money annually for the service of the temple and again this was separate from the tithes which we come to realise when we get to verses 37 and 38. Here we note that the tithes were collected from the agricultural cities (cities of the tillage) only thus confirming what I said earlier that only food producers were required to tithe and that the tithe was never money. To add to that, what we notice from the New Testament scriptures is that the practice of tithing produce existed up to Jesus’ time as the Pharisees tithe herbs of mint, dill and cumin (Matt 23:23). This was clearly the practice of tithing and money was given separately to the temple treasury as we see in Mark 12:41. It is noteworthy to mention here that those who argue that Jesus did not abolish tithing, citing Matt 23:23, by the same logic refuses to acknowledge that the tithe was not money or the equivalent of earnings but food produce from food producers only. If Jesus did not change the tithe law then the tithe remains a tenth part of produce only from food producers. This point however is lost on “pro-tithers”. We note from Luke 16:14 that the Pharisees loved money yet Jesus did not rebuke them for tithing herbs instead of money and this is because under the law only produce could be tithed. It should be noted here also that people who were engaged with other professions but who also tilled the land on the side were also required to tithe of the produce of the ground. They did not however tithe of their income from their profession.
 

Also, if money was not prevalent, how did farmers sell the Feast tithe for silver in Deuteronomy 14?  How did they redeem the tithe in Leviticus 27?

The fact is, they had money.  Just as you have proven in your post.  Thank you Gary, for your insight.

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No one's deleting anything, SFIC. Even locked threads can still be read for edification (or otherwise) by anyone who happens by. Attitudes get threads locked, remember? Don't want this one locked - watch your attitude. And that goes for everyone. Including me.

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I really have no "attitude." 

That is, until others accuse me falsely as TOP did.

Would you not get angry if he were telling lies about you? 

The Bible tells us we can be angry, but to make sure that anger does not cause us to sin.  Obviously, TOP is so angry that I am posting truth, he has allowed that anger to take him to that point.

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I actually agree very much with this statement.  But if we are going to "claim" we are giving the truth, the entire truth needs to be told.  This should be a "locked" topic forever, it is up to each to study the Bible and do as you are led.

You did not tell the "truth" at all. 

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This thread has turned ugly and personal. I know from past experiences that my motives will be in question for locking this thread. Just read the last few pages with an open heart and you will agree why it was locked.

 

The reason why it is locked is because it is not glorifying to God. Plain and simple. 

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