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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Tithe With Out A Cheerful Heart?

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The Glory Land
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Please tell me, just how many New Testament Churches does God have?  I thought the scriptures teach there is ONE Church, and all born-again believers are a member.

 

What you are doing is holding membership in a corporation doing business as a church.  Similar to holding membership in a club. 

There is one body (the body of Christ) and many members (local assemblies consisting of born again believers...Jew and Gentile).  The "one baptism" is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

 

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

Romans 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

 

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

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The members here are clearly revealing through scripture what their belief's - opinions are, while you strike back at them if it happens to not agree with you.

 

I see a lot of beliefs and opinions expressed here, but absolutely NO scripture to back up tithing money, or even tithing from one's income.  Opinions and/or beliefs mean nothing if there is no scripture to back them up.

 

Unfortunately, too many believe what man teaches rather than what the scriptures teach.

 

The tithing scriptures are clear.  They aren't confusing.  They aren't a mystery.  God is not the author of confusion.  If God wanted us to tithe from our income, God would have given instructions as to how to do it, and where to take it.  Gross income or net income?  Inheritances?  (In the Old Testament, the eleven tribes that inherited the promised land did NOT tithe the land they inherited, but the Levites were required to tithe from their inheritance.  God spells it out.)  Gifts?  Non-monetary gifts?  In order to teach that tithing is valid on money and/or income, man has to make up the rules.  Do you really think that God would leave it up to man to determine His tithe? 

Edited by GaryArnold
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Whether it's incorporated or not, the point is the same.  As soon as a "local church" requires or offers membership, it puts it out of the category of being like a club.  This whole "church membership" thing is man made.  Just like the tithing doctrine taught in so many churches today.  Just a man-made doctrine as can easily be found when researching the history of tithing money in the Christian Church.

 

This is a good subject for discussion, but will take us waaaay off topic. GaryArnold, if you (or anyone else) would like to discuss this point, could you please start a new thread?  Hopefully that will keep this one from getting any more conglomerated than it already is. :wink Thanks.

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I have been following this topic and must say there is much controversy and stone throwing.  What I don't understand, 'Standing Firm In Christ', is why you are taking much of this personally.  The members here are clearly revealing through scripture what their belief's - opinions are, while you strike back at them if it happens to not agree with you.  In the end it is all between the individual and GOD.  We will all stand before HIM and give account.  Why is this a big deal to you?  I don't believe the majority of the members here, are here to do needless battle.  Let's enjoy the fellowship with one another.....there's a time and a place to stand firmly and somehow I don't think this is it?? Last time I checked, GOD was still in control.

Jesuspaiditall4all,

There have only been three verses used in this thread by others concerning tithing.  Actually, it was not others, but rather one member.
Those verses used are Leviticus 27:30, Matthew 23:23 & Luke 11:42.  Those are the only verses that have been used in this thread that support tithing. 

And the tithing they support is not that monetary tithe that is taught in pulpits today.  They support the tithe found within the Mosaic Law.. tithe of agricultural produce and livestock.

It appears though you may have been following the topic, you have not actually been paying close attention to the posts.

And just exactly why is it wrong to stand firm on what the Scripture teaches, prey tell?
One should never desert the Truth written in Scripture and embrace error.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Whether it's incorporated or not, the point is the same.  As soon as a "local church" requires or offers membership, it puts it out of the category of being like a club.  This whole "church membership" thing is man made.  Just like the tithing doctrine taught in so many churches today.  Just a man-made doctrine as can easily be found when researching the history of tithing money in the Christian Church.

Oh please....

 

And just where exactly is "finance minister" in the Bible?   If you are going to go that route, then at least be consistent.

PS - I believe church membership IS in the Bible, but Prov. 25:2 comes into play here.  Only a lazy student looks for the easy "silver bullet" verse to prove or disprove their pet teachings.

 

Can we close this thread now???

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A little humor interjected at this point would be the fact that a minister of finance is also known as a "comptroller"

When looking up the word "comptroll" in the Webster's 1828 Dictionary, I find the following definition:

Webster's 1828 Dictionary [A-J]
comptroll

COMPTROLL, from L., To count or compute, and a register. If this word were of genuine origin, both the verb and its derivative, as applied to a public officer, would not be sense. But there is no such legitimate word in English, nor in any other known language. See Control.

Wait!  Did I read that right?  There is no such legitimate word in the English, nor in any other language?  Well, how did it end up in a dictionary of words?  And if there is no such word, why does it have a definition?

Maybe Gary can give us some insight into that one.

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Is Music Ministry in the scriptures?  How about Youth Ministry?  Singles Ministry?  Need I go on?

 

Being that I minister/teach, and I teach finances/stewardship, I consider my "job description" to be that of a Financial Minister.  I don't use any title in front of my name other than that of "Brother."

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We give, not tithe, with a cheerful heart.  The Biblical tithe was paid, not a gift (Matthew 23:23).

 

Being Spirit led instead of OT law and/or pastor led, I find myself giving more like 30% of my income each month, cheerfully.  I can't be cheerful about paying my taxes.  Tithing was very similar to paying taxes.

 

Tithe - paid by those who inherited the promised land.
Inheritance or Estate tax - paid from the estate or inheritance.

Tithe - ONLY on property owners.
Property tax - ONLY on property owners.

Tithe - used to run the theocracy.
Income tax - used to run the government.

Tithe - doesn't apply to the poor.
Luxury tax - doesn't apply to the poor.

Tithing can also be compared to sharecropping.

Tithing was always taxation so that the programs of the government could run: the priestly program, the national religious program, and the welfare program.
Taken from God’s Plan for Giving, John MacArthur, Moody Press, 1985, page 76.

God placed all of these verses in our Bibles to remind us that Levites were public officials of the state and tithes were included as state-taxation to support them.
Taken from Should the Church Teach Tithing, Russell E. Kelly, Ph.D., page 70.

Even the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica, agrees that tithes were political taxes.
Taken from Should the Church Teach Tithing, Russell E. Kelly, Ph.D., page 71.

See also William Hendriksen and Simon J. Kistemaker, New Testament Commentary: Exposition of Thessalonians, the Pastorals, and Hebrews (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1995), 187, for support of the relationship between taxes and tithing.
 

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Whether it's incorporated or not, the point is the same.  As soon as a "local church" requires or offers membership, it puts it out of the category of being like a club.  This whole "church membership" thing is man made.  Just like the tithing doctrine taught in so many churches today.  Just a man-made doctrine as can easily be found when researching the history of tithing money in the Christian Church.

 

So you believe in one large universal church, not the local church. that teaching comes from the RCC.

 

church which was in Jerusalem

 

church that was at Antioch

 

church at Cenchrea.

 

church of God which is at Corinth

 

church of the Laodiceans

 

church of the Thessalonians

 

the church of the Cretians

 

church which is in his house

 

the church in Smyrna

 

the church in Pergamos

 

church in Thyatira

 

Yes, & that's not all of them, each one of them is refereed to as a church, so what we actually have is local churches, with each one being independent of the other yet the head of each one is Christ.

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Interesting, some of the varied aspects brought up in this thread are primarily unique to Western churches and matters mostly of more recent times.

 

Anyway, several things here could be interestingly discussed, if not all jumbled together in one thread, and if folks discussed the matters in a civil manner with Christian love.

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Jesuspaiditall4all,

And just exactly why is it wrong to stand firm on what the Scripture teaches, prey tell?
One should never desert the Truth written in Scripture and embrace error.

 

 

It isn't wrong to stand firm on what scripture teaches, but it is wrong to twist what someone has said to try to prove your point.  I haven't been back very long, however, long enough to see what has occurred here.  I believe you will respond back and have more to say to defend your position, but, I'm not here to disagree with you.  I come to this forum to learn, to fellowship and share.  I stated what I did because it was - is my observation.  When things are known they are clear to the individual and that doesn't mean that all individuals have the understanding correctly,  just because they firmly believe it to be so.  We can be wrong, dead wrong and still believe we are correct in our stand.  Just something to think about.

O

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It isn't wrong to stand firm on what scripture teaches, but it is wrong to twist what someone has said to try to prove your point.  I haven't been back very long, however, long enough to see what has occurred here.  I believe you will respond back and have more to say to defend your position, but, I'm not here to disagree with you.  I come to this forum to learn, to fellowship and share.  I stated what I did because it was - is my observation.  When things are known they are clear to the individual and that doesn't mean that all individuals have the understanding correctly,  just because they firmly believe it to be so.  We can be wrong, dead wrong and still believe we are correct in our stand.  Just something to think about.

O

I have not twisted anything anyone has said at all. 

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The Old Testament clearly tells us that the tithe was agricultural in nature. It was not money.
That is what you appear to have such a hard time understanding. There is no Scripture whatsoever that says the tithe was to be money. To say we are to tithe money is to add to the Word of God.
God said He gave His Holy tithe to the Levites. From what I understand, there are still Levites living on the Earth today. Since there are still Levites, if tithes were still to be received, it would be the Levites who are to be the recipients of the tithe. Not Pastor so-and-so who is a Gentile Believer. Unless you can provide the verse that says God gave the tithe to Churches in other countries, you are merely denying the Word of God.

Numbers 18:24-26 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

The reason I explained the verses you gave away is because as anyone can see, they say nothing of a tithe for Gentile Believers whatsoever.
You say the Old Testament still applies today. Tell me, Irishman, when is the last time you heard of the Elders of your tribe stoning a rebellious child? If you have not, why not? After all, the Old Testament is for us as you claim.

The truth is the Old Testament is for our learning, but not all commands of the Old Testament are for the New Testament believer. The Laws that were written in the Old Testament were to the children of Israel... not to us. And Peter and James both said the same thing at the Jerusalem Council that I am saying here now.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to the Apostles that no greater burden be put upon the Gentile Converts than four necessary things. Too bad the Holy Ghost didn't seek consultation from Irishman, eh? You would certainly have set Him straight.


Sorry Irishman, but the tithe was not for us. God's Word says He gave it to Israel. God's Word later tells us that He abolished the tithe. You are fighting against the Word of God,.


The Levirate marriage was prior to the Law and was carried into the Law. Would you advocate I marry my deceased brothers wife seeing they had no children?
God told Hosea to marry a harlot. Would you balk if your son came home one day with a prostitute and said he was going to marry her? Something tells me you would.

As I said, the Old Testament is there for our learning. It's commands are not for us, nor are the blessings and cursings that God gave to Israel.
Rightly dividing might be a class you would benefit from. Then again, you might argue with the Teacher, so maybe not.







It's none of my business, but how much do you give to your church? Fear not and speak freely.
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