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The Glory Land

Tithe With Out A Cheerful Heart?

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A little humor interjected at this point would be the fact that a minister of finance is also known as a "comptroller"

When looking up the word "comptroll" in the Webster's 1828 Dictionary, I find the following definition:

Webster's 1828 Dictionary [A-J]
comptroll

COMPTROLL, from L., To count or compute, and a register. If this word were of genuine origin, both the verb and its derivative, as applied to a public officer, would not be sense. But there is no such legitimate word in English, nor in any other known language. See Control.

Wait!  Did I read that right?  There is no such legitimate word in the English, nor in any other language?  Well, how did it end up in a dictionary of words?  And if there is no such word, why does it have a definition?

Maybe Gary can give us some insight into that one.

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Is Music Ministry in the scriptures?  How about Youth Ministry?  Singles Ministry?  Need I go on?

 

Being that I minister/teach, and I teach finances/stewardship, I consider my "job description" to be that of a Financial Minister.  I don't use any title in front of my name other than that of "Brother."

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Was just thinking about the original OP - cheerful giving. Kinda ironic how most of this thread has revolved around a lack of cheerfulness - either concerning our own giving, or that of others. 

 

Hilarem datorem diligit Deus.

:goodpost:

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We give, not tithe, with a cheerful heart.  The Biblical tithe was paid, not a gift (Matthew 23:23).

 

Being Spirit led instead of OT law and/or pastor led, I find myself giving more like 30% of my income each month, cheerfully.  I can't be cheerful about paying my taxes.  Tithing was very similar to paying taxes.

 

Tithe - paid by those who inherited the promised land.
Inheritance or Estate tax - paid from the estate or inheritance.

Tithe - ONLY on property owners.
Property tax - ONLY on property owners.

Tithe - used to run the theocracy.
Income tax - used to run the government.

Tithe - doesn't apply to the poor.
Luxury tax - doesn't apply to the poor.

Tithing can also be compared to sharecropping.

Tithing was always taxation so that the programs of the government could run: the priestly program, the national religious program, and the welfare program.
Taken from God’s Plan for Giving, John MacArthur, Moody Press, 1985, page 76.

God placed all of these verses in our Bibles to remind us that Levites were public officials of the state and tithes were included as state-taxation to support them.
Taken from Should the Church Teach Tithing, Russell E. Kelly, Ph.D., page 70.

Even the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica, agrees that tithes were political taxes.
Taken from Should the Church Teach Tithing, Russell E. Kelly, Ph.D., page 71.

See also William Hendriksen and Simon J. Kistemaker, New Testament Commentary: Exposition of Thessalonians, the Pastorals, and Hebrews (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1995), 187, for support of the relationship between taxes and tithing.
 

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Whether it's incorporated or not, the point is the same.  As soon as a "local church" requires or offers membership, it puts it out of the category of being like a club.  This whole "church membership" thing is man made.  Just like the tithing doctrine taught in so many churches today.  Just a man-made doctrine as can easily be found when researching the history of tithing money in the Christian Church.

 

So you believe in one large universal church, not the local church. that teaching comes from the RCC.

 

church which was in Jerusalem

 

church that was at Antioch

 

church at Cenchrea.

 

church of God which is at Corinth

 

church of the Laodiceans

 

church of the Thessalonians

 

the church of the Cretians

 

church which is in his house

 

the church in Smyrna

 

the church in Pergamos

 

church in Thyatira

 

Yes, & that's not all of them, each one of them is refereed to as a church, so what we actually have is local churches, with each one being independent of the other yet the head of each one is Christ.

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Interesting, some of the varied aspects brought up in this thread are primarily unique to Western churches and matters mostly of more recent times.

 

Anyway, several things here could be interestingly discussed, if not all jumbled together in one thread, and if folks discussed the matters in a civil manner with Christian love.

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Jesuspaiditall4all,

And just exactly why is it wrong to stand firm on what the Scripture teaches, prey tell?
One should never desert the Truth written in Scripture and embrace error.

 

 

It isn't wrong to stand firm on what scripture teaches, but it is wrong to twist what someone has said to try to prove your point.  I haven't been back very long, however, long enough to see what has occurred here.  I believe you will respond back and have more to say to defend your position, but, I'm not here to disagree with you.  I come to this forum to learn, to fellowship and share.  I stated what I did because it was - is my observation.  When things are known they are clear to the individual and that doesn't mean that all individuals have the understanding correctly,  just because they firmly believe it to be so.  We can be wrong, dead wrong and still believe we are correct in our stand.  Just something to think about.

O

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It isn't wrong to stand firm on what scripture teaches, but it is wrong to twist what someone has said to try to prove your point.  I haven't been back very long, however, long enough to see what has occurred here.  I believe you will respond back and have more to say to defend your position, but, I'm not here to disagree with you.  I come to this forum to learn, to fellowship and share.  I stated what I did because it was - is my observation.  When things are known they are clear to the individual and that doesn't mean that all individuals have the understanding correctly,  just because they firmly believe it to be so.  We can be wrong, dead wrong and still believe we are correct in our stand.  Just something to think about.

O

I have not twisted anything anyone has said at all. 

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The Old Testament clearly tells us that the tithe was agricultural in nature. It was not money.
That is what you appear to have such a hard time understanding. There is no Scripture whatsoever that says the tithe was to be money. To say we are to tithe money is to add to the Word of God.
God said He gave His Holy tithe to the Levites. From what I understand, there are still Levites living on the Earth today. Since there are still Levites, if tithes were still to be received, it would be the Levites who are to be the recipients of the tithe. Not Pastor so-and-so who is a Gentile Believer. Unless you can provide the verse that says God gave the tithe to Churches in other countries, you are merely denying the Word of God.

Numbers 18:24-26 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

The reason I explained the verses you gave away is because as anyone can see, they say nothing of a tithe for Gentile Believers whatsoever.
You say the Old Testament still applies today. Tell me, Irishman, when is the last time you heard of the Elders of your tribe stoning a rebellious child? If you have not, why not? After all, the Old Testament is for us as you claim.

The truth is the Old Testament is for our learning, but not all commands of the Old Testament are for the New Testament believer. The Laws that were written in the Old Testament were to the children of Israel... not to us. And Peter and James both said the same thing at the Jerusalem Council that I am saying here now.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to the Apostles that no greater burden be put upon the Gentile Converts than four necessary things. Too bad the Holy Ghost didn't seek consultation from Irishman, eh? You would certainly have set Him straight.


Sorry Irishman, but the tithe was not for us. God's Word says He gave it to Israel. God's Word later tells us that He abolished the tithe. You are fighting against the Word of God,.


The Levirate marriage was prior to the Law and was carried into the Law. Would you advocate I marry my deceased brothers wife seeing they had no children?
God told Hosea to marry a harlot. Would you balk if your son came home one day with a prostitute and said he was going to marry her? Something tells me you would.

As I said, the Old Testament is there for our learning. It's commands are not for us, nor are the blessings and cursings that God gave to Israel.
Rightly dividing might be a class you would benefit from. Then again, you might argue with the Teacher, so maybe not.







It's none of my business, but how much do you give to your church? Fear not and speak freely.

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Not meant harshly --- but you're right, it's none of your (or any of ours) business.

True, and if one were to post such it would only serve as grounds for some to say they must not be telling the truth, or charge them with giving too little, or having posts telling them just how much they should be giving, and on and on.

 

Our giving is to be between us and the Lord. We really shouldn't even try to speculate how much anyone, rich or poor, is giving, simply tend to our own giving, making sure we are giving as the Lord leads.

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I have not been on here but for a few minutes in the last several months and the discussion has not changed.  Several people have made tremendous posts but I would like to congratulate Salyan for the honesty and clarify of your post.  Pastor Scott Markle also had some insightful thoughts.  When people who are normally clear thinking individuals becomes enraged and willing to openly castigate men of God, and fellow members on this board there is reason. 

I have to wonder how many people leave this website for discussions like this.  

Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 

Edited by The Ohio Patriot

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I wonder how many leave the Church because of the Church telling them they are to tithe their money when the Word of God never tells them that?

 

Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

When a man of God is in the wrong, those who know the truth should stand up to them and tell them they are wrong.  If you were in my home or on my doorstep, or even in my Church and you were telling me or anyone else that a tithe of money belongs to God, I would withstand you to the face, because you are to be blamed.

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I have to wonder how many people leave this website for discussions like this.  

Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 

I know of one person on onlinebaptist who thanked me for my posts encouraging said person to study out the tithe.  Said person now admits the truth and is thankful to be set free from the man-made law of the monetary tithe.

My prayer now for that person is that that person go to the Church that person has been a member of and that person shares the truth written in Scripture with other Church members so they to can be freed from the bondage of the man-made monetary tithe they are enslaved to.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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Yes I am well aware of your truth.

 

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 

I'm glad your back, but this really isn't helpful.

 

That said, how have you been?

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Yes I am well aware of your truth.

 

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 

You do err, not knowing the Scriptures. 
(then again, maybe you do know the Scriptures but just don't care)

It is obvious that it is you who will not endure sound doctrine.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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Not meant harshly --- but you're right, it's none of your (or any of ours) business.



There was a reason for this, if he does not support any ministry, we know where he is coming from. If he is giving more then the tithe, then he is right and we are wrong. But I guess we will never know now.

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