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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Tithe With Out A Cheerful Heart?

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Jesus identified religious leaders as hypocrites (and other harsh words) when they were wrong.

Unless you can prove me wrong with Scripture, (that doesn't mean taking them out of context ) you can't prove me wrong when I say a preacher is greedy, ignorant of Scripture, or deceitful when teaching a monetary tithe. 

Where are those verses that prove me wrong, Salyan. Don't just say I am wrong, present the proof that I am.

 

Sigh. Actually, I didn't say your statements concerning the tithing question were wrong. I was pointing out that your attitude is wrong.  

 

You want verses? Okay...

 

 

Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. Col. 4:6

 

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Matt. 7:1-5

 

Put on therefore, as the elect of God... kindness... Col. 3:12

 

And be ye kind one to another... Eph. 4:32

 

I cannot prove your cruel, false words about godly men to be wrong, because you will not be proven wrong! But your refusal to listen to others does not make your statements correct.  You want to be proven wrong? Come up here and meet my pastor.

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The Scriptures teach otherwise.  However, the Holy Spirit may place a burden to give offerings for other things, such as missions or to help a struggling family member.  The tithe is for the storehouse, your offerings can be given as the Lord leads through the Holy Ghost.

Do you attend the Jewish temple under the Old Covenant where a storehouse existed and used for the support of the priesthood and needy? Jesus fulfilled the law, the Old Covenant has been replaced by the New Covenant, the temple and priesthood system has been replaced by local churches and pastors.

 

Scripture commands that Christians are to give in accord with the will of God, out of love, doing so cheerfully and out of their abundance; which means those with more should give more. Christians are called to give to their home church, to support missionaries, to care for the poor and needy, and to provide for not only their immediate family, but also their extended family which is in need.

 

As the preacher told the man who worked for Coke during the Great Depression when he bragged about always giving a tithe and complained that some in the church gave exceedingly little or even nothing (due to the fact they had no jobs); that this man was not fulfilling his Christian duty. He told the man that in times of abundance, the Christian is called to give more. When those who have abundance give abundantly that makes up for the lack of those with nothing.

 

The Lord knows all things and when we seek His guidance He will direct us as to how much we should give. The Lord may guide one man to put 5 dollars in the collection, another 50, another 500 and yet another 5,000. If each does as the Lord told them, each of them is in the will of God, no more, no less.

 

The New Covenant says our giving is not to be by compulsion, which means there can be no "you are required to give 'X' amount. We are also told our giving should be between us and the Lord, not a matter we tell others about, not the pastor, not our friends or enemies, not the government. Our giving is primarily a spiritual matter between us and the Lord.

 

If the Word is properly preached, if folks are properly discipled, if the congregation is properly led to grow in Christ and they are doing so, there is no need for a pastor to plead for money or complain about the amount of giving. If we are walking right with the Lord, we will be giving in accord with His leading, out of hearts filled with love, gratitude, joy and cheerfulness. Then the local church will be fully supplied and well able to carry out the tasks the Lord has for that church.

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The Scriptures teach otherwise.  However, the Holy Spirit may place a burden to give offerings for other things, such as missions or to help a struggling family member.  The tithe is for the storehouse, your offerings can be given as the Lord leads through the Holy Ghost.

Where's the storehouse?

 

The storehouse is not the church house.

 

The fact is, there is no storehouse today.  The storehouse was located in Jerusalem in the Temple.  As of 70AD, there is no more Temple. 

 

The church does not store their "alleged" tithes in chambers in the church as the Levites stored their tithes (crops, flocks, and livestock) in the Temple storehouse chambers, until 70AD.

Edited by LindaR
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Maybe this one won't. Maybe, just maybe, we can continue to post the truth as it is written in God's Word.

Of course, there's always the chance that some will not want the truth to continue because it

1. Allows them to see that they have been deceived for years. (No one likes to admit that)
2. Reveals their pastor, whether intentionally or unintentionally, has deceived them for years.
3. Reveals that they are not studying the Word of God enough.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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Seem like most of my post are getting lock. :(

That's a bummer. If you see one of your threads getting off track, or any folks posting in ways the Mods might pounce on, take the opportunity to post about this, asking posters to focus, post kindly, avoid personal attacks, including personal digs, and such.

 

Most threads get locked because of unkind, uncivil posts that carry one between two or more posters. You have the power to help police your own threads by trying to head such off.

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SFIC, I did produce some scriptures, and you totally explained them away.  The Jews of the O.T. were mostly who occupied Israel, so of course they were talking to the Jews! Duh!  But is pointing that out, you seem to say that the O.T. is not for us, the church (as you stated outright) or Christian people.  Do you believe that the Old Testament is the Word of God?  If so, it is given to all peoples everywhere, and forever.

 

There are no verses as you demand other than those I cited, but there are none that are contrary to it either.  Since you claim tithing was under the law, we both know that it preceded the law, and was therefore overlapped, and adopted into the law, but since it precedes the law, it is a principle carried over (since nothing has been said to tithe or not to tithe in the New Testament according to you)

 

The verse in the New Testament were speaking to the Jews, yes, but we are all spiritual Jews (Gal. 3) and the seed of Abraham.  The judicial laws have been annulled, and many of the traditions and types (that are not necessary today), but the tithe is not a part of those.

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Three "observances" that were prior to the law being instituted, and they also became part of the law.

 

1.  Tithing (Genesis 14:18-20)

2.  Circumcision (Genesis 17:9-14)

3.  Keeping the Sabbath (Exodus 16:23-30)

 

The law was given to Israel in Exodus 20.

 

If we use the "tithing pre-dates the law" argument for why we should tithe today, why do we not also use the same argument for requiring circumcision and keeping the Sabbath today?

 

Please forgive me...I'm working from memory here...but I don't recall where keeping the Sabbath or circumcision were definitively declared to no longer be observed.  I know Paul basically said that circumcision doesn't profit you anything, but I can't recall that the New Testament says that people are no longer to observe the Sabbath or circumcision (if I'm wrong, please correct me).

 

Don't get me wrong...I'm in no way, shape, or form saying that we should observe the Sabbath or require circumcision...just pointing out what I see as a weakness in the "pre-law argument".

 

Though they aren't "forbidden" (if I'm right), they have been replaced with something better.

 

All three "Pre-law observances" have been replaced with something better.

 

1.  The Sabbath has been replaced with the Lord's day.

2.  Circumcision has been replaced with faith.

3.  Tithing has been replaced with "as you purpose in your heart" and "as God prospers you".

 

As Christians, we have no specific guideline in the New Testament other than those for giving. Yes, both guidelines were in relation to special offerings, but that's still the only guidelines we have.

 

I truly believe in my heart that if people gave according to those guidelines, the offerings would far surpass what tithing would bring in...but that's me.   :)

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SFIC, I did produce some scriptures, and you totally explained them away.  The Jews of the O.T. were mostly who occupied Israel, so of course they were talking to the Jews! Duh!  But is pointing that out, you seem to say that the O.T. is not for us, the church (as you stated outright) or Christian people.  Do you believe that the Old Testament is the Word of God?  If so, it is given to all peoples everywhere, and forever.

 

There are no verses as you demand other than those I cited, but there are none that are contrary to it either.  Since you claim tithing was under the law, we both know that it preceded the law, and was therefore overlapped, and adopted into the law, but since it precedes the law, it is a principle carried over (since nothing has been said to tithe or not to tithe in the New Testament according to you)

 

The verse in the New Testament were speaking to the Jews, yes, but we are all spiritual Jews (Gal. 3) and the seed of Abraham.  The judicial laws have been annulled, and many of the traditions and types (that are not necessary today), but the tithe is not a part of those.

The Old Testament clearly tells us that the tithe was agricultural in nature.  It was not money. 

That is what you appear to have such a hard time understanding.  There is no Scripture whatsoever that says the tithe was to be money.  To say we are to tithe money is to add to the Word of God.

God said He gave His Holy tithe to the Levites.  From what I understand, there are still Levites living on the Earth today.  Since there are still Levites, if tithes were still to be received, it would be the Levites who are to be the recipients of the tithe.  Not Pastor so-and-so who is a Gentile Believer.  Unless you can provide the verse that says God gave the tithe to Churches in other countries, you are merely denying the Word of God.

Numbers 18:24-26 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

The reason I explained the verses you gave away is because as anyone can see, they say nothing of a tithe for Gentile Believers whatsoever. 
You say the Old Testament still applies today.  Tell me, Irishman, when is the last time you heard of the Elders of your tribe stoning a rebellious child?  If you have not, why not?  After all, the Old Testament is for us as you claim.   

The truth is the Old Testament is for our learning, but not all commands of the Old Testament are for the New Testament believer.  The Laws that were written in the Old Testament were to the children of Israel... not to us.  And Peter and James both said the same thing at the Jerusalem Council that I am saying here now. 

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to the Apostles that no greater burden be put upon the Gentile Converts than four necessary things.  Too bad the Holy Ghost didn't seek consultation from Irishman, eh?  You would certainly have set Him straight.


Sorry Irishman, but the tithe was not for us.  God's Word says He gave it to Israel.  God's Word later tells us that He abolished the tithe.  You are fighting against the Word of God,.


The Levirate marriage was prior to the Law and was carried into the Law.  Would you advocate I marry my deceased brothers wife seeing they had no children? 
God told Hosea to marry a harlot.  Would you balk if your son came home one day with a prostitute and said he was going to marry her?  Something tells me you would.

As I said, the Old Testament is there for our learning.  It's commands are not for us, nor are the blessings and cursings that God gave to Israel. 
Rightly dividing might be a class you would benefit from.  Then again, you might argue with the Teacher, so maybe not.



 

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Unless you can prove me wrong

 

you can't prove me wrong 

Where are those verses that prove me wrong, Salyan. Don't just say I am wrong, present the proof that I am.

 

Nobody has been able to sway you in anything SFIC, Your moniker should be SFIP, P for Pride.  

 

Folks present scripture time and again and you swipe their verses right off the table and declare their failure to back up their case.  You my friend, suffer from pride and it's blinding you.  Maybe or maybe not from this issue, but your blinded by pride nonetheless.

 

You owe many folks here an apology for your comments towards them too.

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Because I stand for what the Bible teaches I am prideful? 

Sorry swathdiver.  But you are dead wrong on that one. 

Perhaps it is you who is guilty of pride.  Too proud to admit that the Word of God nowhere teaches the saved of Christ to tithe their money to the Church.  Too proud to admit that the monetary tithe taught today is a man-made doctrine that the Church pushes off as being the Word of God.

Where are these verses that prove me wrong, swathdiver?  Tell you what, to be fair, I will go back and copy every verse that has been used in this thread. 

Then, you can apologize to me for the false accusations.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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SFIC, I did produce some scriptures, and you totally explained them away.  The Jews of the O.T. were mostly who occupied Israel, so of course they were talking to the Jews! Duh!  But is pointing that out, you seem to say that the O.T. is not for us, the church (as you stated outright) or Christian people.  Do you believe that the Old Testament is the Word of God?  If so, it is given to all peoples everywhere, and forever.

Irishman, do you live in the Old Covenant dispensation of the law?  Are you not a NT Christian....a member of the body of Christ/the Church who lives in the dispensation of grace?

 

The Old Testament describes man's creation and fall and contains God's preparations for and prophecies of the coming of the Saviour, Jesus Christ.  The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old.  The Bible, all 66 books are the Word of God.  We need to "rightly divide" the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15) and make a distinction between Israel and the church.  There is no church mentioned in the OT.  Therefore the Mosaic Law that was given to the nation of Israel is for Israel.  The epistles of Paul, Peter, John, James and Jude are for the NT Christian who lives in the dispensation of grace.  The church is not Israel!

 

There are no verses as you demand other than those I cited, but there are none that are contrary to it either.  Since you claim tithing was under the law, we both know that it preceded the law, and was therefore overlapped, and adopted into the law, but since it precedes the law, it is a principle carried over (since nothing has been said to tithe or not to tithe in the New Testament according to you)

Tithing is not a principle...it was a custom before the law and a command during the dispensation of the law.  The tithe that preceded the law is not the same type of tithe that is preached today in our churches.  It was not monetary and Abraham only tithed once and as for Jacob, his promise to tithe (or give a tenth) was not fulfilled until 21 years after he "bargained" with God. (Genesis 28:20-22).  Also, Abraham's tithe didn't consist of his own possessions but were from the spoils of war (Genesis 14:18-20; Hebrews 7:4) and Abraham returned the 90% to Bera, the King of Sodom.  Do you practice the Levirate marriage (practice of marrying your dead brother's wife to continue his seed), and polygamy?  They also were practiced before the law.

 

The verse in the New Testament were speaking to the Jews, yes, but we are all spiritual Jews (Gal. 3) and the seed of Abraham.  The judicial laws have been annulled, and many of the traditions and types (that are not necessary today), but the tithe is not a part of those.

There is no such thing as a "spiritual" Jew!  Gentiles who are born again are Abraham's seed and heirs "according to the promise" (Galatians 3:29).  That doesn't make Gentiles "spiritual Jews" anymore than born again ethnic Jews (as I am) become spiritual Gentiles.  In the New Testament (rightly dividing the Word of truth), the Church is never called, and is not, a “spiritual Israel” or a “new Israel.” The term “Israel” is either used of the nation or the people as a whole, or of the believing remnant within. It is never used of the Church in general or of Gentile believers in particular.

 

All the ordinances (of which tithing was one of those ordinances) were nailed to the cross of Christ. (Colossians 2:14)....those same ordinances were abolished in His flesh (Ephesians 2:14-15)

Edited by LindaR
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Preacher:  You tithe on the first ten percent of your income.

God’s Word:  You tithe on crops, and every tenth animal that passes under the rod.  NOT the first, but the tenth.  See Leviticus 27:30-33.  Preachers are mixing firstfruits with the tithe and they are NOT the same.  In Nehemiah 10:37-38 we learn that the firstfruits were taken to the temple for the priests, and the tithe was taken to the Levites to go into their cities.

Preacher:  The Levites worked full-time at The Temple.

God’s Word:  The Levities and priests were divided into “24 courses” and they rotated working at The Temple one week out of every 24 weeks.  Therefore, the priests and Levites actually worked at The Temple about two weeks a year.  The rest of the time they had regular jobs. See First Chronicles 24 for the priests and chapters 25 and 26 for the Levites.

Preacher:  You tithe the BEST to God.

God’s Word:  You tithe every tenth animal whether that animal be good OR BAD.  See Leviticus 27:30-33.

Preacher:  The firstfruits of your income belong to God.

God’s Word:  In the Old Testament, every time a firstfruits offering is mentioned it is referring to the first of the crop, assets that came from God’s hand, not man’s labor.  Firstfruits offerings has nothing to do with income.

Preacher:  The tithe was taken to The Temple.

God’s Word:  The tithe was taken to the Levites to go into their cities.  See Nehemiah 10:37-38.

Preacher:  Malachi 3:10 Take all the tithes to the storehouse.

God’s Word:  The Levites received the tithe, and they were required to take a tenth of the tithe to the priests.  ONLY that tithe went to the storehouse, NOT the tithe from the people.  Again, see Nehemiah 10:37-38.

Preacher:  You are robbing God if you don’t bring your tithe to the church.  Malachi 3:8-10.

God’s Word:  The priests were robbing God, not the people.  The priests robbed God of the tithe by stealing the Levites portion (Nehemiah 13).  The priests robbed God of the offerings by giving the worst and keeping the best (Malachi 1).

God defined His tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33 as HOLY.  How can anyone change God’s definition and then call a tenth of their income a HOLY tithe!
 

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  1.  In post #13, iamchief posted the following verses:

    Acts 6:2   Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. 
    Acts 6:3   Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. 
    Acts 6:4   But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

    Nothing in that passage, nor in that chapter, nor in the entire book of the Acts of the Apostles is said of tithes whatsoever.

    * while iamchief did mention “double honour”, he did not give the Church reference.  But even that does not say double honour means tithes.  One has to add tithes there, for it is not there.
  2. In post #19, NoNicolatians posted 2 Corinthians 9:7, which tells how we are to base our giving… as we choose in our own hearts to give.
     
  3. In post #25, LindaR posted 2 Corinthians 8:12, which does not say anything of tithes, but giving according to what one has and not according to what one does not have. 

    *this verse shoots down the false doctrine of Faith Promise.

     
  4. In post #36, Irishman posted Leviticus 27:30, stating that the tithe is the Lord’s.  Funny, he conveniently left out verse 34 that states that the tithe was for the children of Israel.  He stated that the tithe was not money at that time because money was scarce for the average person.  Yet, Deuteronomy 14:22-29 easily proves he is wrong.  Scripture would not say the tithe could be sold for money if money was scarce for the average person.  The facts are, money was readily available for any tither should he need it.  Even the tither, the farmer had money, for he was given the option of buying the tithe back from the Levite according to Leviticus 27:31.  That fact alone proves than money was not scarce for the average person.
     
  5. In post #36, Irishman also quoted Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42.  Both of these verses have our Lord saying that tithing was to be done.  But He was not telling the Church to tithe.  He was telling the scribes and Pharisees… “Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees… these ought YE to have done.”  And why did He tell them to tithe?  Because it was an eternal moral principle?  NO!  He told them to tithe because that is what the Law they were commanded to obey required them to do.
     
  6. In post #36, Irishman posted 2 Corinthians 9:6-10 as well.  Not one of those verses have anything to do with tithing. 

     
  7. In post #51, OLD fashioned preacher posted 1 Timothy 5:4,16.  Neither of these verses prove a monetary tithe.  1 Timothy 5:8 & 2 Thessalonians 3:10 were also referenced.  Neither of these say anything about tithing.
     
  8. In post #55, Calvary came in with references to Acts 11, 2 Corinthians 9:1 and 1 Corinthians 16.  Neither of these passages say anything about a tithe.
     
  9. In post #59, Calvary quoted 1 Corinthians 16, which was a collection for the saints in Jerusalem.  Had absolutely nothing to do with a monetary tithe.
  10.   In post #61, Salyan posted Colossians 4:6, Matthew 7:1-5, Colossians 3:12, & Ephesians 4:32.  Nothing whatsoever about tithing in those verses.
     

In post #71, NoNicolatians posted reference to several verses, pointing out that tithing was Old Testament Law and not for us.

Sorry Irishman, but the only verse you used that had anything to do with the tithe was Leviticus 27:30.  And verse 34 clearly tells us that that tithe was for the children of Israel. 

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Preacher: Abraham tithed to Melchizedek.  Melchizedek is a type of Christ, and Christ is a priest after the order of Melchizedek.  Therefore, we should tithe to Christ.  Gen. 14 w/ Psalm 110 and Heb. 7

 

God's Word:  in agreement.

 

Remember - it is a PRINCIPLE, not a DEMAND....and when a Christian uses his liberty in Christ as an excuse to NOT GIVE, then that Christian will not grow in grace enough to serve the Lord or to handle the problems that will inevitably come his way.  (Don't forget II Cor. 9:8!!!)

 

In Christ,

Edited by Steve Schwenke
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You forgot one, Gary ...

Preacher: (to the new Christian) 10% is where you should start.
God's Word: every man, as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give.

As can be seen, the preacher in this scenario begins deceiving the new Christian immediately.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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