Dorightchristians - James White’S “Could Lazarus Have Said ‘No’?”

[Dr James Ach]

    I want to examine the often cited proof text that Calvinism and Reformed Theology use as evidence that the spiritually dead can not resist the call of God in the story of Lazarus on John chapter 11. I want to begin by examining the argument of popular apologeticist and Calvinist author, James White. […]

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[heartstrings]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. John 5:25

 

I believe that Lazarus was stinking and dead as a rock when he HEARD the Almighty voice of the Son of God; the all powerful majestic voice which breaks the cedars, shakes the wilderness, divides the flames of fire, makes the hinds to calve, and discovers the forests. It matters not whether the ear is physically or spiritually dead. Lazarus was not quickened until he obeyed what that mighty Voice said; "Lazarus come forth" and neither will a sinner.

[Calvary]

The Calvinist believes a man incapable of responding to the voice of the Lord as he is dead in sins and trespasses. They cite Lazarus as a generic example of the deadened sinners inability to respond until he has been quickened by the Lord to do so, thus bringing salvation, or regeneration to the lost sinner. (Effectively making regeneration a prerequisite to salvation! Talk about heresy!! Born again but not saved?? )

 

Only problem with all that is that there is nothing in the scriptures to indicate an inability of a man to respond, but strong evidence that he does not wish to respond.

 

Take Adam for example. The very 1st man who according to the Calvinist shares the dead spiritual condition of all men having disobeyed the voice of the Lord

 

 

Here is your spiritual death -

Gen 3:7  And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
 

Here is the spiritually dead hearing the voice of the Lord:

Gen 3:8  And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day:

 

Here is the spiritually dead responding to their condition:

... and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

 

Watch it again:

 

A spiritually dead man, in his sins and trespasses, unregenerate, unsaved and in a fallen state and nature.

Gen 3:9  And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

A spiritually dead man, with a fallen Adamic nature (in fact the Original fallen man) and he is fully capable of understanding his condition, his predicament and his choice of hiding from God instead of getting right with God.

Gen 3:10  And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

 

Man in a fallen nature is aware of it. He also understands his accountability to God, in a fallen nature. No amount of theological mazes will change that.

 

God bless,

calvary
 

[DaveW]

Always amazes me that they use an example of physical death to relate to spiritual death. IT IS AN ILLUSTRATION that is used, and illustrations are rarely perfect or complete, and should not be what doctrines are based upon.
Plain fact is that a man who is physically dead can think, feel, reason, and respond. The account (not illustration or parable) of the rich man and Lazarus speaks definitively of that.

[Dr James Ach]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. John 5:25

 

I believe that Lazarus was stinking and dead as a rock when he HEARD the Almighty voice of the Son of God; the all powerful majestic voice which breaks the cedars, shakes the wilderness, divides the flames of fire, makes the hinds to calve, and discovers the forests. It matters not whether the ear is physically or spiritually dead. Lazarus was not quickened until he obeyed what that mighty Voice said; "Lazarus come forth" and neither will a sinner.

Although I disagree with the Calvinist interpretation of John 5 and John 11, I also do not agree that Lazarus obeyed. This was actually the point that James White was refuting which I left alone because at least on that point he was right (that there was no action whereby Lazarus obeyed), he simply went into a different direction from there that took the conclusion into left field. The obedience that Lazarus displayed was before he died.

 

You are right, that the sinner is responsible for obeying the voice of God, but in this particular instance, that's not what the story of Lazarus is teaching.

[heartstrings]

Agreed; Lazarus no doubt had obeyed, that is believed on the Lord, before death. But the sentence "lazarus come forth" is a command.