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An Error Taught By Many


Donald

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It amazes me that American Christianity is so deceived in this area.

 

Try going to India, Africa, or many other places in which the Christians live in absolute poverty.  Try telling them that it's God's will for them to be healthy and wealthy.  Tell them that God wants them to drive a new car and live in a mansion.  If God is has no respect of persons, shouldn't he do the same for them?

 

Let's get down to where the rubber meets the road...

 

1Tim 6:5
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
 

God says that we are to withdraw ourselves from anyone who teaches that gain (acquiring money) is godliness.  That's what prosperity gospel preachers teach when they proclaim that it's God's will for you to be wealthy.  However, people love it, and rather than withdrawing from it, they embrace it.

To a certain extent I agree, but then it depends on how that is actually put forward. Some preach "wealth" as in millionaire type wealth, while others teach the "wealth" means having all your needs met with money left over to help others.

 

There have been cases in Africa where the latter sort of "prosperity preaching" has led to many coming to the Lord. These people had lived in poverty, suffered war and corrupt governments, and had never heard a positive message from God. Then they heard that God loves them, heard the Gospel, and also heard that God cared about their needs, his promise to meet their needs, and that God does reward those who follow Him.

 

Oftentimes too many things get lumped together when they are not the same, and that's true sometimes when it comes to "prosperity preachers/teachings", which seems to be something Irishman was addressing in another post.

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In my experience there is a great need to preach about Biblical financial principles, but 'prosperity Gospel' in any form is not Biblical.
God actually says things like:
2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
God promises to watch over us and help us in time of trouble but not to make us rich.
Look at Paul.... as a pharisee he was guaranteed a Respected,wealthy,comfortable life, but by submitting to God's will he got poverty, prison, and persecution.

But the Bible does have a lot to say about financial management.

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It seems that my post has been taken to mean tithes (which I do believe in by the way), but I believe I said that it is not merely financial success, but physical, mental, social etc,

 

Consider Abraham's servant: Gen 24:56  "And he said unto them, Hinder me not, seeing the LORD hath prospered my way; send me away that I may go to my master"

 

There are many examples of men that prospered in various ways, but I believe it also includes monetarily.  As someone put it in an earlier post, not millionaire type prosperity, but enough to pay debts and give to others.  That is one of the keys to prosperity, giving to others.

 

Gen 39:3 "And his master saw that the LORD was with him, and that the LORD made all that he did to prosper in his hand."  God made "all that {Joseph} did to prosper.

 

As I said, there are many verses to support this.

 

Deu 29:9  "Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do."

 

Guess what?  Most of them have the stipulation of doing right, seeking God's will, or being "upright" in all we do.

 


Whoever wrote this in my post, please consider:

 

“Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?” (James 2:5)

 

God chose who would be poor, just as he decided not to heal Paul's thorn in the flesh, even though He promises us good health.

And “Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.”
(Matthew 19:21)

 

He was speaking to a man that trusted in his wealth, and not in the Lord--and He knew who He was addressing.
 

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Some preach "wealth" as in millionaire type wealth, while others teach the "wealth" means having all your needs met with money left over to help others.

 

I've never heard "wealth" taught or preached as meaning to have your needs met with money left over to help others...I'm not saying people haven't preached that in relation to wealth...I've just never heard it.

 

God promised to take care of our needs.  If he blesses some with material gain, he has a reason for doing so; however, he also has a reason for not blessing others with the same.  We should glorify him for the fact that he will supply our needs and be content in whatever our situation may be...

 

Phil 4:11
Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
 
1Tim 6:6-9
6   But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7   For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8   And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9   But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
 
Heb 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
 
There were poor Christians from the beginning of the church until now...
 
Acts 2:44-45
44   And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45   And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
 
Rom 15:25-26
25   But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
26   For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
 

Yes, God will take care of the needs of any of his children (no matter where on earth they may live), but we aren't promised financial gain.

 

I heard Creflo Dollar once say that it was ridiculous how so many people claim that Jesus was poor.  His "proof" for saying that Jesus wasn't poor was because the Bible says that they had to carry a purse...if Jesus was poor, they wouldn't have needed a purse to carry all the money in.            :jaw:       :nuts:  

 


 

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I've never heard "wealth" taught or preached as meaning to have your needs met with money left over to help others...I'm not saying people haven't preached that in relation to wealth...I've just never heard it.

 

God promised to take care of our needs.  If he blesses some with material gain, he has a reason for doing so; however, he also has a reason for not blessing others with the same.  We should glorify him for the fact that he will supply our needs and be content in whatever our situation may be...

 

Phil 4:11
Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
 
1Tim 6:6-9
6   But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7   For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8   And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9   But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
 
Heb 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
 
There were poor Christians from the beginning of the church until now...
 
Acts 2:44-45
44   And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45   And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
 
Rom 15:25-26
25   But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
26   For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
 

Yes, God will take care of the needs of any of his children (no matter where on earth they may live), but we aren't promised financial gain.

 

I heard Creflo Dollar once say that it was ridiculous how so many people claim that Jesus was poor.  His "proof" for saying that Jesus wasn't poor was because the Bible says that they had to carry a purse...if Jesus was poor, they wouldn't have needed a purse to carry all the money in.            :jaw:       :nuts:  

 

 

I agree, we are to be content whether rich, poor or in between.

 

I also believe it's wrong for pastors, whether IFB or others, to outright declare that if they tithe they will prosper and if they don't they will be punished or cursed of God.

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Maybe in return for your financial sacrifice God will bless you with poverty? Anyone ever think of that? Wasn't Jesus, Paul, Peter and millions of other dirt poor throughout history blessed of God? There's probably been more poor Christians throughout the last 2,000 years than middle class and well to do combined. That's a good crowd to be associated with.

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That teaching is an error.  The bible is clear on seeking riches, whether it be carnally or even anticipating that God guarantees you to have it, if you follow HIm.

 

(Matt 6:19 [KJV])
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

(Matt 6:20 [KJV])
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

(Matt 6:21 [KJV])
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

(Matt 6:22 [KJV])
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

(Matt 6:23 [KJV])
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

(Matt 6:24 [KJV])
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

The next verses show that men would rather keep hold of riches that they have, instead of following Christ. Jesus does say that with God it is possible that a rich man can be saved.

 

(Mark 10:17 [KJV])
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

(Mark 10:18 [KJV])
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

(Mark 10:19 [KJV])
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

(Mark 10:20 [KJV])
And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

(Mark 10:21 [KJV])
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

(Mark 10:22 [KJV])
And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

(Mark 10:23 [KJV])
And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

(Mark 10:24 [KJV])
And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

(Mark 10:25 [KJV])
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

(Mark 10:26 [KJV])
And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?

(Mark 10:27 [KJV])
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

 

Here is a parable of what riches and cares of this world can do to those who hear the gospel.

 

 

(Matt 13:22 [KJV])
He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

(Mark 4:18 [KJV])
And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,

 

(Mark 4:19 [KJV])
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

 

(Luke 8:14 [KJV])
And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.


Jesus also taught that God will provide for your needs. 
 

(Luke 12:22 [KJV])
And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.

(Luke 12:23 [KJV])
The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.

(Luke 12:24 [KJV])
Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?

(Luke 12:25 [KJV])
And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

(Luke 12:26 [KJV])
If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?

(Luke 12:27 [KJV])
Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

(Luke 12:28 [KJV])
If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

(Luke 12:29 [KJV])
And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

(Luke 12:30 [KJV])
For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.

(Luke 12:31 [KJV])
But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

(Luke 12:32 [KJV])
Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

(Luke 12:33 [KJV])
Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

(Luke 12:34 [KJV])
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

 

God does not frown upon those who are rich in the world. However, they are admonished not to trust in uncertain riches. Does this mean gambling, lotteries ect...?  Joseph of Arimathaea is a good example of a rich Christian.

 

(1Tim 6:17 [KJV])
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

(1Tim 6:18 [KJV])
That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

(1Tim 6:19 [KJV])
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Then there is that apostle called a devil and a thief who had problem with the wrong treasure and you can see where his heart was.

 

(John 12:3 [KJV])
Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.

(John 12:4 [KJV])
Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,

(John 12:5 [KJV])
Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?

(John 12:6 [KJV])
This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.
 

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It amazes me that American Christianity is so deceived in this area.

 

Try going to India, Africa, or many other places in which the Christians live in absolute poverty.  Try telling them that it's God's will for them to be healthy and wealthy.  Tell them that God wants them to drive a new car and live in a mansion.  If God is has no respect of persons, shouldn't he do the same for them?

 

Let's get down to where the rubber meets the road...

 

1Tim 6:5
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
 

God says that we are to withdraw ourselves from anyone who teaches that gain (acquiring money) is godliness.  That's what prosperity gospel preachers teach when they proclaim that it's God's will for you to be wealthy.  However, people love it, and rather than withdrawing from it, they embrace it.

 

Amen & amen!

 

I believe many pastors loves to cater to those who have more so than those who have little, for if they do it might mean more gain for them.

 

And even in many churches with the name Baptist on them there's many who loves the prosperity & feel good message.

 

Once several years ago in a Sunday school class at a church I had been asked to preach that Sunday a man said, "God has blessed me very much financial because I've been a very good Christian. And he will do the same for anyone else."

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I've heard "if you don't tithe, God will get his money by the doctor(and mechanic) " so many times.

 

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

 

God doesn't need our money...He just wants us to be givers, like He is..

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I believe tithing is Biblical and taught in the Bible. It's the first check I write every month. I have missed a month or two, but I do try to be consistent. I've never thought I was going to be blessed financially but that my needs will be met whether I tithe or not. I know some don't support tithing only offerings, whatever, but to not support the church financially in any way if you can is irresponsible for any Christian.

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Matthew 17

27. Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up ; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take , and give unto them for me and thee. 

Too poor to pay his taxes.

 

Matthew 8

And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Luke 9

And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Too poor to own a home.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is this guy on TV who sends/sells miracle water. At first it was suppose to heal the sick. Now a days it makes people rich. I guess they rub it on their check book. :laff cry: 

While I certainly disagree with the proserity preachers, I also disagree with the idea that Jesus was poor, too poor to own a home or pay His taxes. Indeed, Jesus, along with the 12, kept a 'purse', in which they kept a fund, apparently to buy bread and such things as they might need. IN fact, when Jesus was speaking to the Samaritan woman, the disciples were gone to buy food

The point with Jesus and His disciples, is that they gave up everything, not that they had nothing. Jesus apparenty had a house with His mother and brethren where He lived until His ministry began, I would assume. He is said to have gone home from time to time during His ministry, as well. But His work was not to be a carpenter once His ministry began-it was to preach the gospel to the entire nation of Israel, which would have been difficult, had He had a home to care for-she He became a circut-riding, (or walking)  preacher.

 

And obviously, if jesus could pull money out of the mouths of fish, He was hardly 'poor', eh?

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Hello John81

You said.......
The tithe aspect I mentioned because that's how I've heard IFB pastors raise the issue of prosperity for believers. They teach specifically that if a Christian tithes, and gives more afterward, then they will be blessed financially. Along with this is the teaching that if they don't tithe, God "will get His tithe" in some other way; at which point some IFB pastors start talking about God taking His tithe by causing non-tithing believers cars to break down, or to have a serious health problem, or lose their jobs.

Thus far, I've never heard an IFB pastor preach on this aspect without using the tithe as their basis for why the congregation would be financially rewarded by God, or punished by God.

Some pastors go so far as to accuse poorer members of their church of not tithing, even when they are giving a tenth each Sunday, saying that if they were truly tithing they would have more money. That's not right on many levels.

I've heard IFB pastors give virtually the same sermon on this issue that is heard from some of the TV prosperity preachers. They tell believers to tithe and God will bless them a hundred fold. Then they tell them to keep tithing after they get more money and God will keep increasing their money a hundredfold.


It sounds like you have visited my Church.
This is exactly what my pastor says, almost every week.

As expected; This must be a “regular teaching”, in most IFB Churches!
(What a shame!)

 

We have God’s Word and a life changing Gospel message, and we get sidetracked by a love of money!
 

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