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An Error Taught By Many


Donald

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Normally I would not have started a thread in this part of this site, because the point of any thread is to minister to as many people as possible: Therefore I had questioned the wisdom of this site(and others like it), for even having parts of their site unavailable to everyone.

But this morning I saw the light, when the Lord gave me “this subject” to post about.
This is something that every IFB needs to hear, while those who are not IFB, don’t need to hear; Because it could to turn them away from IFB Churches.
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The subject of this thread is money.
I having been an pastor for 25 years or so and an IFB pastor for c.20 years, but I had never sat(as a member), in an IFB Church.  (If you want me to explain this I will later).

But the Lord has seen fit, to place me as a “member” of a good IFB Church for the last year and a half or so.  I don’t know exactly what the LORD is up to, by not opening a door for me to pastor my own Church during this time, but every day I keep reminding myself, that “The Lord knows what He is doing”!  Anyway, it’s been a good year and a half for my wife and myself, because we are still in the center of God’s will and am still being wonderfully blessed by Him: And praise the Lord I am ministering more than ever through my job and daily visits to a local college.

One of the areas in which we are being blessed, is in the good preaching we are hearing(for the most part) from the pulpit, and also “some” of the practical things we are learning, about the workings of an IFB Church.  Now don’t get me wrong; For 20 years I had also been in God’s will, as I pastured IFB Churches, but they had not been a “carbon copy” of other IFB Churches because I had never sat under an IFB pastor.

Now, I can get a little closer to the point of this thread.
My pastor is a good man: And even though we are not on the same page in every area, I generally get a blessing from his messages.
But.... he has a problem, in the area of money!

I won’t go into every detail of “this problem”, because space would not allow it.
But recently he completed a series of “talks” on Sunday night about the personal finances of the members of his Church; And during the 6 or 7 weeks of this series, the Lord has revealed a lot of things to my heart(none of which were the intent of his talks).

His intent was made clear, from beginning to end.  Basically he taught(and believes), that “gain is Godliness” and that if you are not “well to do” financially, than something is wrong in your life and in your walk with the Lord!  He believes that every “good Christian” will drive a nice car and have a nice house and be out of debt and will always pay all of his bills on time etc.
And he bases this belief upon God’s promise to bless us for our faithfulness.....
“Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.” (Luke 6:38)

Although this is one of his favorite verses to quote; he seems to be blind to others....
“Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?” (James 2:5)

“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.”
(Matthew 19:21)


“For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.” (Matthew 26:11)
....along with thousands of other Scriptures.
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Now although this is bad enough, it goes further.  He regularly “tweaks” other Scripture passages, to make them apply to money, when they don’t really have anything to do with “filthy lucre” at all.

Sure enough, during this series on “our personal finances”, I had come very close to leaving this Church, but the Lord would not give me permission.  As I said before, I trust that “the Lord knows what He is doing”, and this morning, I realized that my son(who lives on the other side of the country), who also attends a solid IFB Church, might be being exposed to this same kind of error.  As I began to consider the kind of warnings I might give to him, I thought about all the people that log on to this site and what I could say to warn you.

One more thing; During my years as a pastor I had received a lot of literature from IFB Churches and pastors and had noticed a preoccupation with money with most of them. Also, during my time in this Church, we have had several guest speakers, who seem to have fallen into the same error as my pastor and seem to echo some of the same tripe that he preaches. Therefore it could be that this problem is so widespread, that I will get an avalanche criticism and maybe even be kicked off of this site.

Please don’t do that.  If you think I am wrong, lets talk about it in light of Scripture and see who God agrees with.
 

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With that thinking there must have been a lot of bad Christians living under the Iron Curtain or under Nazi rule where a found potato and some nuts gathered after passing through a minefield was meal for the whole family (7).

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Blessings from God is not always financial. With that thinking, I guess Job was a Godly man until he lost everything. So if that is what your pastor was saying, I disagree with it.

 

 

Therefore it could be that this problem is so widespread, that I will get an avalanche criticism and maybe even be kicked off of this site.

BTW: Nobody gets the boot for disagreeing here. It always is about the attitude of the poster. 

 

My pastor is a good man: And even though we are not on the same page in every area, I generally get a blessing from his messages.

But.... he has a problem, in the area of money!

Does not every single one of us have a problem in a certain area? I would hope that if your pastor publicly posted "your" problem from his eyes that you would take it in the same manner as you posting his. Not meant to criticize you or anyone, just to make us think. 

 

 

This is not limited to the IFB, ever seen the preachers on tv? 

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Hello Matt

My pastor is not “computer savvy” so I strongly doubt that he will ever find this site or my thread.  I hope that I would never publically criticize my pastor or Church, in a way that could hurt them in any way.

As for being publically criticized myself; That is what I am here for.
My hope and prayer, is that if I am WRONG in any area of my thinking or behavior, that I am informed about it, so that I can get right.......
“For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.” (1 Corinthians 11:31)
 

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I agree with Donald, that sounds like prosperity preaching I've heard on TBN. People get into money trouble all the time but God doesn't say he'll take care of every want but our needs, the only things we NEED are shelter, food, clothing, the rest are wants and desires.

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Matthew 17

27. Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up ; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take , and give unto them for me and thee. 

Too poor to pay his taxes.

 

Matthew 8

And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Luke 9

And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Too poor to own a home.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is this guy on TV who sends/sells miracle water. At first it was suppose to heal the sick. Now a days it makes people rich. I guess they rub it on their check book. :laff cry: 

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We believe in tithing and giving sacrificially to God as a family. However I think even I have been guilty of falling into the trap of believing that giving sacrificially will have God blessing financially in return.

Right now we are going through a really rough time financially, but are still giving sacrificially to God. My husband had to correct my thinking by reminding us that God is still meeting all of our needs and that we are giving to Him what He laid on his heart to give, and we must obey God.

My husband is a pastor and he does not preach that God will make you rich if you give. He does preach that God will meet your needs if you put Him first and give to Him in many ways...time, talents, money. I think sometimes in America we think "meeting needs" means something different than it really means. I know I'm guilty of it many times (thinking I need more than I really do.)

One of my biggest struggles is the idea of financial stability, probably because I grew up in a very financially stable home. My dad had faith in God for a lot of things, but finances was not one of them...he was very self-made financially. So I struggle with that aspect of faith. Anyway that's rambling. I personally don't know of any IFB churches who preach that God will give you a nice car and home if you give.

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Quote: "Although this is one of his favorite verses to quote; he seems to be blind to others....
“Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?” (James 2:5)

“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.”
(Matthew 19:21)


“For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.” (Matthew 26:11)
....along with thousands of other Scriptures" (end of quote)

 

One must be careful both ways.  What I mean is that there are many verses and passages (Psa. 1:1-3 for example) where the Lord does give his blessing to those who seek Him and keep His commandments.  Of course that isn't merely financial blessing, but I believe that is included in the success He promised Joseph (everything he put his hand to prospered) and Joshua who was promise "good success" if he kept God's laws.  (Josh. 1:.8)

 

I do not promote prosperity preaching, it is taking the promises to an extreme.  In 2 Chron. 26:5 we see that Uzziah prospered "As long as he sought the Lord" and it was the Lord that made him prosper.  There are several other verses one could cite. Our Lord said that the poor would always be with us, sure, but that does not mean he recommended us to live in poverty, on the contrary, I believe that the Lord wants us to prosper, financially, socially, mentally, physically, and especially spiritually.  He always wants what is best for us.

 

This is not meant for debate, but while we critique those who promote a prosperity gospel, we cannot ignore the other side of the coin.

 

Praise the Lord for His wonderful grace.

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Irishman I do definitely believe God blesses some with wealth. I know and am related to several people who have honored God and they have plenty of money and to spare.

On the other hand, we are in ministry and it is pretty well known that those in ministry usually do not have much money. It must be God's way of making sure we have extra faith. haha.

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I agree with Donald, that sounds like prosperity preaching I've heard on TBN. People get into money trouble all the time but God doesn't say he'll take care of every want but our needs, the only things we NEED are shelter, food, clothing, the rest are wants and desires.

I've heard many IFBs over the years preach along these lines. Most of the ones I heard went something like, "If you tithe faithfully and give even more then God will make sure you have more than enough money." Many go on to add something about folks who are not doing well financially need to tithe faithfully and give more so God will bless them financially.

 

Many IFB sermons on money I've heard sounded much like many I've heard from Pentacostals or Charismatics.

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I've heard many IFBs over the years preach along these lines. Most of the ones I heard went something like, "If you tithe faithfully and give even more then God will make sure you have more than enough money." Many go on to add something about folks who are not doing well financially need to tithe faithfully and give more so God will bless them financially.

Many IFB sermons on money I've heard sounded much like many I've heard from Pentacostals or Charismatics.

Most Baptists are unaware of the fact that the Baptist Pastors never taught the monetary tithe until the mid-1900's. Prior to that, they taught the truth.
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I've heard many IFBs over the years preach along these lines. Most of the ones I heard went something like, "If you tithe faithfully and give even more then God will make sure you have more than enough money." Many go on to add something about folks who are not doing well financially need to tithe faithfully and give more so God will bless them financially.

 

Many IFB sermons on money I've heard sounded much like many I've heard from Pentacostals or Charismatics.

I've also heard this preached from IFB pulpits: "For those who say they can't afford to tithe, I (the preacher) would ask....can you afford to be cursed?" 

 

Where does it say in the NT church epistles that a born again Christian is "cursed" for not tithing?  Didn't Jesus Christ become a curse to redeem us from the curse of the law?

 

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 

Malachi 3:8-10 was not written to the church.

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It amazes me that American Christianity is so deceived in this area.

 

Try going to India, Africa, or many other places in which the Christians live in absolute poverty.  Try telling them that it's God's will for them to be healthy and wealthy.  Tell them that God wants them to drive a new car and live in a mansion.  If God is has no respect of persons, shouldn't he do the same for them?

 

Let's get down to where the rubber meets the road...

 

1Tim 6:5
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
 

God says that we are to withdraw ourselves from anyone who teaches that gain (acquiring money) is godliness.  That's what prosperity gospel preachers teach when they proclaim that it's God's will for you to be wealthy.  However, people love it, and rather than withdrawing from it, they embrace it.

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I don't think this is about the tithe specifically so much as it is about whether or not God promises to bless believers financially - ever! Let's not hijack the thread.

The tithe aspect I mentioned because that's how I've heard IFB pastors raise the issue of prosperity for believers. They teach specifically that if a Christian tithes, and gives more afterward, then they will be blessed financially. Along with this is the teaching that if they don't tithe, God "will get His tithe" in some other way; at which point some IFB pastors start talking about God taking His tithe by causing non-tithing believers cars to break down, or to have a serious health problem, or lose their jobs.

 

Thus far, I've never heard an IFB pastor preach on this aspect without using the tithe as their basis for why the congregation would be financially rewarded by God, or punished by God.

 

Some pastors go so far as to accuse poorer members of their church of not tithing, even when they are giving a tenth each Sunday, saying that if they were truly tithing they would have more money. That's not right on many levels.

 

I've heard IFB pastors give virtually the same sermon on this issue that is heard from some of the TV prosperity preachers. They tell believers to tithe and God will bless them a hundred fold. Then they tell them to keep tithing after they get more money and God will keep increasing their money a hundredfold.

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