In Christ Alone Removed From Presbyterian Hymnal

[swathdiver]

...well - ok - I guess they might be heretics (although I won't name someone as such for merely being ecumenical), but they are certainly not apostates or infidels.

 

My intent was to declare that some are heretics, some apostates and some infidels.  There are several people associated with that song.

 

While I don't know much more, in what I did study they never said anything about trying to bridge a gap between the world and the church...

 

We don't have to agree with them on all points nor do we have to join with them in matters of disagreement, but we are commanded to love them and treat them as beloved family members in Christ.

 

Point 1:  It's been posted before, even with video and you've made comments in those many threads.

 

Point 2:  Titus 3:10-11  - "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

[John81]

My intent was to declare that some are heretics, some apostates and some infidels.  There are several people associated with that song.

 

 

Point 1:  It's been posted before, even with video and you've made comments in those many threads.

 

Point 2:  Titus 3:10-11  - "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

Does not apply.

 

her·e·tic

/n. ˈhɛrɪtɪk; adj. ˈhɛrɪtɪk, həˈrɛtɪk/  Show Spelled [n. her-i-tik; adj. her-i-tik, huh-ret-ik]  Show IPA

noun

1.

a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.

[ASongOfDegrees]

Nothing new. Years ago, back in the 80's, a friend of mine told me they took the hymn "Whiter Than Snow" out of the hymnbook because it might offend black folks. He thought it was a crazy thing to do and he is black. 

[John81]

Nothing new. Years ago, back in the 80's, a friend of mine told me they took the hymn "Whiter Than Snow" out of the hymnbook because it might offend black folks. He thought it was a crazy thing to do and he is black. 

I've heard of such before. It's that political correctness bug that infects churches.

[Covenanter]

I don't think they're heretics, apostates, or infidels, but I do agree that their attempt to 'bridge' the gap between worldly and godly music is very, very dangerous.

Let's flip the argument. All those modernists, heretics, liberals, apostates, infidels, etc, are singing good Scriptural songs. They are singing of salvation "In Christ Alone" & the other hymns the words are which are acceptable to IFBs. Can we object to that?

[John81]

Let's flip the argument. All those modernists, heretics, liberals, apostates, infidels, etc, are singing good Scriptural songs. They are singing of salvation "In Christ Alone" & the other hymns the words are which are acceptable to IFBs. Can we object to that?

Oftentimes over the years I've thought of churches I know that aren't preaching the pure Gospel, that are of the worldly Christian sort, and they sing the same hymns we sing every Sunday and yet to them those hymns have different meaning and seem to have little to no impact upon the congregation.

[HappyChristian]

I absolutely love the lyrics to In Christ Alone.  Nothing unscriptural about them.  The way it's normally sung, though, gives me pause. Ian, didn't you mention something in another thread about the pausing that's done in some CCM? 

[Covenanter]

Oftentimes over the years I've thought of churches I know that aren't preaching the pure Gospel, that are of the worldly Christian sort, and they sing the same hymns we sing every Sunday and yet to them those hymns have different meaning and seem to have little to no impact upon the congregation.

Yes - "Amazing Grace" is widely popular - even as a "folk" song, but why doesn't it speak? I suggest the problem why the great hymns do not speak to the unconverted is nothing to do with the words, but all to do with the universalistic "Christianity" that is taught. Jesus died to save sinners; we are all sinners; therefore we are all saved. Even "the wrath of God is satisfied" so what's the problem? Only the Holy Spirit can break through that impasse.

 

 

LuAnne:

I absolutely love the lyrics to In Christ Alone.  Nothing unscriptural about them.  The way it's normally sung, though, gives me pause. Ian, didn't you mention something in another thread about the pausing that's done in some CCM?

It's the guitar-playing leader, flute/violin/whatever obligato between phrases & verses - they know when to sing again, but it becomes entertainment & show-off.

[HappyChristian]

 

It's the guitar-playing leader, flute/violin/whatever obligato between phrases & verses - they know when to sing again, but it becomes entertainment & show-off.

Okay - when I read that you said that it clicked with me, and this does too.  When I watched her sing this song, I just didn't like it and later I realized that I felt that I was watching entertainment instead of listening to a song about the Savior.  

[Salyan]

I know the names, and I know who they are, but I have no reason for believing them to be unsaved. Therefore, well - ok - I guess they might be heretics (although I won't name someone as such for merely being ecumenical), but they are certainly not apostates or infidels.

 

 

Let's flip the argument. All those modernists, heretics, liberals, apostates, infidels, etc, are singing good Scriptural songs. They are singing of salvation "In Christ Alone" & the other hymns the words are which are acceptable to IFBs. Can we object to that?

 

That flip the argument idea misses my point.  It was that a heretic is one who preaches heresy, an infidel is an unbeliever, and an apostate is one that has departed from the true faith. We ought not to be naming believers (however misled) as unbelievers, or calling those apostates who still preach the true Gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. Let's not apply labels where they are not called for.

[Covenanter]

That flip the argument idea misses my point.  It was that a heretic is one who preaches heresy, an infidel is an unbeliever, and an apostate is one that has departed from the true faith. We ought not to be naming believers (however misled) as unbelievers, or calling those apostates who still preach the true Gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. Let's not apply labels where they are not called for.

That misses MY point! Hymns we recognise as Scriptural are being sung by people who attend churches we would not. I'm not naming or accusing the Gettys, Townend & others - they have moved from charismatic pop to sound hymns, & they should be commended for that. The words people sing do make an impact.

 

Eph. 5:¹⁹ Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

²⁰ Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

 

Col. 3:¹⁶ Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

 

Deut. 31:¹⁹ Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.

[Ukulelemike]

A lack of written score (lyrics on the screen) leaves the congregational singing without harmony unless someone is able to harmonize by ear (most cannot).

 

Most hymns (being prose put to music) have a huge hole in the story (message) when a verse is left out. The only thing worse than being a Vice-President is being verse 3 of a 4 or 5 verse song in the average Baptist church.

I can harmonize by ear pretty well, though I'm out of practice as I am song leader in my church.

 

As well, we sing ALL the verses, unless we're really strapped for time.

[HappyChristian]

We sing all the verses, too.

[swathdiver]

I'm not naming or accusing the Gettys, Townend & others - they have moved from charismatic pop to sound hymns, & they should be commended for that. 

 

Since when?  Have they renounced what they used to produce and their ecumenical associations?  Last time I checked they just added the Scriptural stuff to reach another audience (bridge building) and make more money.  I am not aware of them changing their ways.

[brosmith]

... they have moved from charismatic pop to sound hymns, & they should be commended for that.

 

Really now. I would say that the music that is used on their own site proves that you are wrong.