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2T3:16

1 John 5:8 Picture Thread

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Should this be dictated by what was done in the past or by the context of the Word?  Are you questioning what the word spirit is referring to?  What does the word spirit here refer to?

 

These are the verse in question.  One from Swordsearcher and the other from E-Sword.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 

1 John 5:8  And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

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You sir are no expert in exegesis.  You are somebody with an agenda that you will have to answer for.  People, don't let this man lead you astray.  The KJV is the inerrant Word of God.  If there is one Pure version the rest are corrupted.  Think about it.  Who decided this was pure?  Some guy not a translation committee.  People with an agenda.  This is my last work on the topic, think about what this guy is saying.

Perhaps you should spend more time in the Book, and less time on Facebook, just saying.

Edited by The Ohio Patriot

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Exegisis is from the university and world system and I have, as you say, not proved those weapons. I just come with a few stones: God first, my Bible, prayer, some songs, a good church, some solid christian friends. You are right if you say I am no scholar. Yes, my agenda starts in Genesis and ends in Revelation. We are to reprove, rebuke, and exhort with all longsuffering.

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I believe the answer is in verse 6 whether the spirit should be capitalized. 

 

 

(1John 5:6 [KJV])
This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

(1John 5:7 [KJV])
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

(1John 5:8 [KJV])
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Verse 6 of 1 John is speaking of Jesus Christ. What did he come by? Water and blood and it is the Spirit that beareth witness.,because that Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. Pretty much sums up what verse 8 says.   Verses 9-13 further explain this witness.

(1John 5:9 [KJV])
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

(1John 5:10 [KJV])
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

(1John 5:11 [KJV])
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

(1John 5:12 [KJV])
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

(1John 5:13 [KJV])
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

Because the Son of God hath witness in Himself, i.e.the Spirit,"the Spirit of truth", water and blood. If we believe on the Son we beareth His witness within ourselves because we believe the record that God gave of His Son. Which we know is eternal life and that life is in His Son.  

 

Edited by Kleptes

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Nice post

I believe the answer is in verse 6 whether the spirit should be capitalized. 

 

 

(1John 5:6 [KJV])
This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

(1John 5:7 [KJV])
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. <--- the record in heaven is Holy Ghost=Spirit

(1John 5:8 [KJV])
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Verse 6 of 1 John is speaking of Jesus Christ. What did he come by? Water and blood and it is the Spirit that beareth witness <--with our spirit, little s on earth --->     .,because that Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. Pretty much sums up what verse 8 says.   Verses 9-13 further explain this witness.

(1John 5:9 [KJV])
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

(1John 5:10 [KJV])
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: <---"in himself= spirit little s ---> he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. <--- the record from heaven to earth from Spirit to spirit

(1John 5:11 [KJV])
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

(1John 5:12 [KJV])
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

(1John 5:13 [KJV])
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

Because the Son of God hath witness in Himself, i.e.the Spirit,"the Spirit of truth", water and blood. If we believe on the Son we beareth His witness within ourselves because we believe the record that God gave of His Son. Which we know is eternal life and that life is in His Son.  

 

 

 

Ok, I went through the verses and inserted red comments. I also clarified earlier by posting: How can it be any clearer, comparing scripture with scripture then: Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:  Notice the Spirit capital S in heaven, witnesses with what 1 John 5 is talking about, with our spirit little s on earth.

 

Ok, is there any other scripture that points in this direction?

 

1 Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.    spirit of man communicates with Spirit of God

1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.   The communication is with S in heaven to our s here

 

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:   <--- Notice, 1 chapter back from 1 John 4 it is spirit little s that is confessing Christ on the earth.

 

THE CLEAREST IS ROMANS 8:16

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Ok, I went through the verses and inserted red comments. I also clarified earlier by posting: How can it be any clearer, comparing scripture with scripture then: Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:  Notice the Spirit capital S in heaven, witnesses with what 1 John 5 is talking about, with our spirit little s on earth.

 

Ok, is there any other scripture that points in this direction?

 

1 Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.    spirit of man communicates with Spirit of God

1 Cor 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.   The communication is with S in heaven to our s here

 

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:   <--- Notice, 1 chapter back from 1 John 4 it is spirit little s that is confessing Christ on the earth.

 

THE CLEAREST IS ROMANS 8:16

How about these verses? Seems the Spirit of Truth is in each and every saved person. 

 

(John 14:12 [KJV])
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

(John 14:13 [KJV])
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

(John 14:14 [KJV])
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

(John 14:15 [KJV])
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(John 14:16 [KJV])
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

(John 14:17 [KJV])
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


Notice Jesus said that the Father shall give you another Comforter, that the world cannot receive, he may abide in you for ever. That Comforter is the Spirit of Truth. What else does Jesus say about this Spirit of Truth.

 

 

(John 15:26 [KJV])
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
 

What will this Spirit of truth do when dwells in the body of a believer? He will testify, i.e. bear witness, of Jesus Christ.  What other scripture can show that the Spirit of truth is in us presently. You quoted Romans 8:16

 

(Rom 8:16 [KJV])
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

You are right it is very clear where the Spirit is in relation with our spirit. It is with our spirit presently. How about these verses.

 

 

(Rom 8:9 [KJV])
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 

(Rom 8:11 [KJV])

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

 

(Eph 3:16 [KJV])
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

(Eph 3:17 [KJV])
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

 

You also mentioned 1 Corinthians 2:11-12,

 

(1Cor 2:11 [KJV])
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

(1Cor 2:12 [KJV])
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

 

11 says only the man know the things of man save the spirit of man which is in him. It also says that only the things of God the Spirit of God knows.  So if man only knows the things of man through the spirit of man, how can he bear a witness the things of God in earth? The only answer is if the man has the Spirit of God "truth" in him. I believe that the spirit which is of God in verse 12 should be capitalized. That Spirit is the Comforter that Jesus promised would come and dwell in us, presently, when He ascended back to the Father. 1 John 4:2 goes right along with with Romans 8:16

 

 

(1John 4:2 [KJV])
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

 

The only way a spirit can confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God. Is only if the Spirit of truth "the Comforter" dwells in him. This confession testifies, ii.e. bears witness, of Jesus Christ. 
 

 

 


 

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Lest establish something first. You do agree that the Holy Ghost, also known as the Comforter,the Spirit, the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Spirit dwells in each and everyone that is truly born again right?

If this is the case, the Spirit of truth does indeed beareth the witness of Jesus Christ who came by the water, the blood and the Spirit that beareth witness. That when He died he not only shed blood but the water came out as well. When Jesus left, the Father sent the Spirit, that we know is the Holy Ghost or what other name is used. The Spirit does witness on earth because he dwells in us.  If you look at the context of 1 John 5 you will see it all points to the assurance in Jesus Christ that every Christian has because we have overcome the world.  Verse 7 says that  the Father the Word and the Holy Ghost these Three are One which  beareth a record.  What record does these One bear?  That God gave us eternal life and it is in His Son. Verse 8 says there are three that beareth witness in the earth the spirit, the water, the blood and they agree in one. What do these three beareth? The same thing. That God gave us eternal life and it is in His son.  Verse 9 shows a contrast between the witness of men and the witness of God. The witness of God is greater than that of man. Which He hath testified of His Son.  How does that correspond to verse 7?  Verse 9 brings it out. That a the only men who can bear this witness are only those who believe in the Son of God. In doing so they have the witness in themselves. That witness is the Spirit of Truth or what other name is given for Him; like the examples at the beginning of this answer. He dwells in us.  Jesus even said the Spirit of truth will testify of Jesus when He comes. It is clear that the spirit that beareth the witness is that very Spirit. No spirit of man can do this unless he is born of God. Which points back to verse 9, otherwise it would be the witness of men and we know Who has the greater witness. Just as Jesus told Nicodemus. Ye must be born again. You have to be born of the Spirit.  It is clear that this Spirit is the Spirit that beareth the witness. One of the best examples between those who profess they are Christian and those who are born again is in Matthew 7 starting with verse 21.

 

 

(Matt 7:21 [KJV])
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(Matt 7:22 [KJV])
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(Matt 7:23 [KJV])
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These men have only their witness. We that are born again have the witness of God and we are known of Him. 

 

Look at the preceding chapter 1 John 4.

 

(1John 4:12 [KJV])
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

(1John 4:13 [KJV])
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

(1John 4:14 [KJV])
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

(1John 4:15 [KJV])
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

(1John 4:16 [KJV])
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Verse 13 says that God has given of us His Spirit.

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What I see is two lines of reasoning, I could argue the contrast between 1 John 5:7 and 8 We could look at

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

If you think that lower case s is a mistake lets just see how far and past how many christians and bible readers and men of God this particular mistake gets past in a major eternal security verse in the Bible: 1 John 5:8 was a lower case s for a 1526 (Tyndale NT), a 1560 (Geneva), and for KJV's from: 1637 (Cambridge), 1728,1808, 1810 (Oxford, Clarendon) 1815, 1816, 1817, 1820, 1823, 1827, 1831,1834, 1836, 1837, 1840, 1845, 1849,1854, 1860 (New York), 1860 (London Edition), ... and the list goes on until the REVISED VERSION is published and then shortly after changes start to happen (the 1611 had all 3 capitalized, and I found 1 other that had the s capitalized, ... the catholic bibles clearly prefer it, they also like to remove 1 John 5:7 from modern versions), I can give you pictures of almost all of these bibles having a lower case s as well, if you want to see the actual pages. It is well above 90% of the english Bibles I've been able to find. There are even people who accept both arguments (like Gail Riplinger who is an author, although she prefers capital s, you can download her paper and I could tell you on what page to look where she concludes both work). The fact that the vast majority including the Cambridge 1637 correcting printing errors in the 1611 KJV while there were some of the Cambridge translation team still alive ... really shows a vast acceptance of the lower case s in a NON-obscure verse at a time when people read their bible rather than watched TV.

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What I see is two lines of reasoning, I could argue the contrast between 1 John 5:7 and 8 We could look at

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

If you think that lower case s is a mistake lets just see how far and past how many christians and bible readers and men of God this particular mistake gets past in a major eternal security verse in the Bible: 1 John 5:8 was a lower case s for a 1526 (Tyndale NT), a 1560 (Geneva), and for KJV's from: 1637 (Cambridge), 1728,1808, 1810 (Oxford, Clarendon) 1815, 1816, 1817, 1820, 1823, 1827, 1831,1834, 1836, 1837, 1840, 1845, 1849,1854, 1860 (New York), 1860 (London Edition), ... and the list goes on until the REVISED VERSION is published and then shortly after changes start to happen (the 1611 had all 3 capitalized, and I found 1 other that had the s capitalized, ... the catholic bibles clearly prefer it, they also like to remove 1 John 5:7 from modern versions), I can give you pictures of almost all of these bibles having a lower case s as well, if you want to see the actual pages. It is well above 90% of the english Bibles I've been able to find. There are even people who accept both arguments (like Gail Riplinger who is an author, although she prefers capital s, you can download her paper and I could tell you on what page to look where she concludes both work). The fact that the vast majority including the Cambridge 1637 correcting printing errors in the 1611 KJV while there were some of the Cambridge translation team still alive ... really shows a vast acceptance of the lower case s in a NON-obscure verse at a time when people read their bible rather than watched TV.

I am a KJV only. I don't know if you think that the KJV is an "inspired translation" or not. I don't think it is and, yes I do think that the lower case s is a mistake, but not by the translators, but more or less the printer that printed it off. I can find several places where Spirit should be capitalized or where he when it talks about Jesus or God or the Holy Ghost should be capitalized instead of lower case.  We are talking of God not a mere man. So I believe that anything that talks of God whether it is Jesus, the Father, Holy Ghost, God, Jehovah,I AM, I am, He, Him, His and  ect.  should be capitalized. 

 

Examples are from Jesus conception and few other verses.

 

 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.  19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.  20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost

 

In this verse specifically.  "the child of the Holy Ghost" should be the Child of the Holy Ghost. The term "that which" either it should have been capitalized or better yet "the Child that is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."  Jesus is God. God is not a "that". "the Child" is talking of Jesus. 

 

(Eph 1:13 [KJV])
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

(Eph 4:30 [KJV])
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

(1Thess 4:8 [KJV])
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

Paul is talking of part of the Godhead. They printed Holy Spirit with a lower case h. Holy should be capitalized. His in "his holy Spirit" should be capitalized to.  You might think this is trivial. but look up every verse in the Bible on Holy Ghost. He is capitalized every single time. I believe that the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost are One and the Same.

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Lest establish something first. You do agree that the Holy Ghost, also known as the Comforter,the Spirit, the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Spirit dwells in each and everyone that is truly born again right?

If this is the case, the Spirit of truth does indeed beareth the witness of Jesus Christ who came by the water, the blood and the Spirit that beareth witness. That when He died he not only shed blood but the water came out as well. When Jesus left, the Father sent the Spirit, that we know is the Holy Ghost or what other name is used. The Spirit does witness on earth because he dwells in us.  If you look at the context of 1 John 5 you will see it all points to the assurance in Jesus Christ that every Christian has because we have overcome the world.  Verse 7 says that  the Father the Word and the Holy Ghost these Three are One which  beareth a record.  What record does these One bear?  That God gave us eternal life and it is in His Son. Verse 8 says there are three that beareth witness in the earth the spirit, the water, the blood and they agree in one. What do these three beareth? The same thing. That God gave us eternal life and it is in His son.  Verse 9 shows a contrast between the witness of men and the witness of God. The witness of God is greater than that of man. Which He hath testified of His Son.  How does that correspond to verse 7?  Verse 9 brings it out. That a the only men who can bear this witness are only those who believe in the Son of God. In doing so they have the witness in themselves. That witness is the Spirit of Truth or what other name is given for Him; like the examples at the beginning of this answer. He dwells in us.  Jesus even said the Spirit of truth will testify of Jesus when He comes. It is clear that the spirit that beareth the witness is that very Spirit. No spirit of man can do this unless he is born of God. Which points back to verse 9, otherwise it would be the witness of men and we know Who has the greater witness. Just as Jesus told Nicodemus. Ye must be born again. You have to be born of the Spirit.  It is clear that this Spirit is the Spirit that beareth the witness. One of the best examples between those who profess they are Christian and those who are born again is in Matthew 7 starting with verse 21.

 

 

(Matt 7:21 [KJV])
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(Matt 7:22 [KJV])
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(Matt 7:23 [KJV])
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These men have only their witness. We that are born again have the witness of God and we are known of Him. 

 

Look at the preceding chapter 1 John 4.

 

(1John 4:12 [KJV])
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

(1John 4:13 [KJV])
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

(1John 4:14 [KJV])
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

(1John 4:15 [KJV])
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

(1John 4:16 [KJV])
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Verse 13 says that God has given of us His Spirit.

I agree Kleptes, (clever name btw)  I John 5:6-9 the key verse that frames the idea presented is vs. 6  The Spirit beareth witness that Jesus came by water and blood.  Ch 4:1-3 teaches that anyone who denies Jesus came in the flesh has the spirit of anti-christ. Back to Ch 5.  vs 7 talks about heavenly witness, vs 8 talks about earthly witness, vs 9 then talks about the witness of God being greater than the witness of men, because he (God) testifies of the Son.  What testimony?  The testimony that Jesus Christ came by water and blood.  Therefore going back to vs 8 spirit is the same spirit in vs.6, the Spirit that beareth witness.  On another note, vs 9 states:" If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of  ----  God------  which -----  he-------  hath testified of ------  his-------  Son.  I find it awful strange that if in vs. 8 "spirit" because it is not capitalized means that it is not the Holy Spirit.  However is vs 9 "he" and "his" pro nouns are not capitalized.  Are we then to assume that the wisdom of the KJV translators are correct in not capitalizing them?

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I agree Kleptes, (clever name btw)  I John 5:6-9 the key verse that frames the idea presented is vs. 6  The Spirit beareth witness that Jesus came by water and blood.  Ch 4:1-3 teaches that anyone who denies Jesus came in the flesh has the spirit of anti-christ. Back to Ch 5.  vs 7 talks about heavenly witness, vs 8 talks about earthly witness, vs 9 then talks about the witness of God being greater than the witness of men, because he (God) testifies of the Son.  What testimony?  The testimony that Jesus Christ came by water and blood.  Therefore going back to vs 8 spirit is the same spirit in vs.6, the Spirit that beareth witness.  On another note, vs 9 states:" If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of  ----  God------  which -----  he-------  hath testified of ------  his-------  Son.  I find it awful strange that if in vs. 8 "spirit" because it is not capitalized means that it is not the Holy Spirit.  However is vs 9 "he" and "his" pro nouns are not capitalized.  Are we then to assume that the wisdom of the KJV translators are correct in not capitalizing them?  Therefore meaning that "he" and "his" is not referring to God?

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Ok, you're type of analysis: "1 John 5:8
It is the proper teaching that the three things listed in this verse reflect the persons in 1 John 5:7, “For
there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these
three are one.” However, it is said by some that the things in verse eight are the same as the persons
in 1 John 5:7: the Father is the blood, “the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own
blood.” (Acts 20:28b); that the Word (or Son) is the water, “Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee,
and was baptized of John in Jordan.” (Mark 1:9b); and the Spirit (the Holy Ghost), they say, is the
“Spirit”, which they quote according to the Oxford way. Only the Oxford Edition uses its marginal
notes to have the reader refer to verse 6 for interpretation on their word “Spirit” capital, which they
are making mean the Spirit of Truth, that is, the Holy Ghost. This line of interpretation is deviant
because it does not take into account the role, nature or working of the Spirit of God in men.
Augustine of Hippo said, “If we wish to inquire about these things, what they signify, not absurdly
does the Trinity suggest Itself, who is the one, only, true, and highest God, Father, Son and Holy
Spirit, concerning whom it could most truly be said, Three are Witnesses, and the Three are One. By
the word spirit we consider God the Father to be signified, concerning the worship of whom the Lord
spoke, when He said, God is a spirit. By the word blood the Son is signified, because the Word was
made flesh. And by the water we understand the Holy Spirit. For when Jesus spoke concerning the
water which He was about to give the thirsty, the evangelist says, This He spake concerning the Spirit
whom those that believed in Him would receive.”1 Thus he recognised that the spirit did not refer
identically to the Holy Ghost of the preceding verse, but to the Father.
The Holy Ghost operates in subjection to the Father in this particular regard, though the Holy
Ghost be co-equal and co-eternal, there is a voluntary submission here, namely, “Howbeit when he,
the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but
whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” (John 16:13). The
“spirit” is by the “Spirit” but is not the Holy Ghost alone. Adam Clarke wrote concerning the spirit,
1
Hills, pages 210, 211.
that it is “in the word confirmed by miracles ... By the written word, which proceeded from the Holy
Spirit, that Spirit is continually witnessing upon earth, that God hath given unto us eternal life.”
The correct structure of 1 John 5:6–8 here is presented (as isolated from the rest of 1 John). The
numbered order and connection between the persons and things.
1. A. EARTHLY MANIFESTATION INDEPENDENT
a. He (Jesus Christ) — person 1
b. that came by (that, not who, means Word made flesh) — separable things
c. water — thing 1
d. blood — thing 2
B. EARTHLY MANIFESTATION INTERDEPENDENT
a. Jesus Christ — person 1
b. (came) not by water only — things inseparable
c. but by water — thing 1
d. and blood — thing 2
2. C. UNIVERSAL WITNESS TO ALL ASPECTS SEPARATELY
a. it is the Spirit that bares witness (that, not who, means Spirit is title and attribute) — person 2
D. UNIVERSAL TRUTH OF WHOLE INSEPARABLE
a. the Spirit is truth (Spirit is the essence of all the nature of God) — person 2
3. E. HEAVENLY RECORD
a. the three that bare record in heaven — separable
b. Father — person 3
c. Word — person 1
d. Holy Ghost — person 2
e. three are one — inseparable
F. EARTHLY WITNESS
a. the three that bare witness in earth — separable
b. the spirit — thing 3
c. the water — thing 1
d. the blood — thing 2
e. three agree in one — inseparable
God the Father, denoted as person 3, is only mentioned once, and the spirit, denoted as thing 3, is only
mentioned once. Thus, the proper interpretation is that the Father and the spirit are related: “shall
we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?” (Hebrews 12:9b). “But the
hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:
for the Father seeketh such to worship him.” (John 4:23). “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our
spirit, that we are the children of God [i.e. the Father]” (Romans 8:16).
The Word connects to the water: “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be
born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5). “That he
might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word” (Ephesians 5:26).
The Holy Ghost connects to the blood: “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through
the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to
serve the living God?” (Hebrews 9:14). “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock,
over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath
purchased with his own blood.” (Acts 20:28)"


 

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By my previous post you see there is a rather good argument for the lower case s. But for me, I still feel like there are good arguments on both sides I think Matthew Henrys commentary bears this out somewhat and Gail Riplinger was stuck with this though she preferred the capital S (I can post the quotes next if you wish). The deciding factor is (1) Where the lower case s seems to have shown up (which editions) and (2) That it seemed to dominate for hundreds of years ... through many godly, well versed, generations.

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