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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Postmillinium

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Well, Revelation 20 says that Satan is bound "that he should deceive the nations no more". That's not the same thing as that author is saying.

Those more knowledgeable than I on this particular point would have to hash that out. All I know is what I read says the preterist position is that Satan is bound from "deceiving the nations" in that he is bound from preventing the spread of the Gospel in every nation.

 

As far as I know, all the differing pre-mil views hold this verse to mean that during a literal thousand years Satan will be bound completely from involvement on earth until near the end of that thousand years when he's loosed and the nations seem to almost instantly fall in line with him and rebel against Christ.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The dispensationalist teaching was confined to the Brethren and Irvingites (The Catholic Apostolic Church) in England during most of the 19th c.  Then Darby went to America and it went viral.

You overlooked the apostles in the Bible, the first century fathers etc.  It was the calvinist who attempted to change this because in the view of biblical interpretation the calvinst's interpretation falls apart.  This was discovered during the reformation and a Biblical view came back into the main stream.  Now the accepted teaching dispensationalism is being attacked by those who belief system crumbles in the face of God's Word.

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You overlooked the apostles in the Bible, the first century fathers etc.  It was the calvinist who attempted to change this because in the view of biblical interpretation the calvinst's interpretation falls apart.  This was discovered during the reformation and a Biblical view came back into the main stream.  Now the accepted teaching dispensationalism is being attacked by those who belief system crumbles in the face of God's Word.

I've not had the time to check into this, but a long-time brother in Christ, who is around 60 and been saved most of those years and held to the pre-mil view until a couple years ago (he decided to study the end times purely from Scripture and his view was changed). In any event, he posted the following, perhaps someone here knows more about this:

 

--------------

As I said earlier, it was by way of Emmanuel Lacunza, a Chilean Jesuit priest, who wrote, "The Coming of Messiah in Majesty and Glory" in 1812, which was the first historical mention of a two-part coming of Christ. Before that time, "rapture" was not heard of, in either written or spoken modes.

----------

 

Elsewhere he pointed out that prior to Darby popularizing this, no one held to such a view. He points out what a pastor showed him on cemetery headstones prior to this, whenever Christians had writings placed on their stones they referred to the coming resurrection, not a rapture.

 

As I said, I've not had a chance to try and look into any of this, but would be interested in what any here may know about these things.

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Covenanter, where does the Tribulation fit in your view? Dimming of the sun, and all that? I don't see how that could have taken place already.

 

The tribulation was to take place during the 3 1/2 year siege of Jerusalem. Jesus said so. We know God darkened the sun at Calvary, and various astronomical phenomena occurred as recorded in the OT. We also read in Isaiah 13 that the same effects were prophesied when the Medes conquered Babylon. 

1 The burden of Babylon,...

 

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

 

17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, ....

 

Oh yes, and if the Millennium is a spiritual one that's currently taking place, how does that work since it's been more than a millennium since the fall of Jerusalem and all that?  Also, how could Satan be currently shut up in prison and is not deceiving people? Seems to me they're pretty well deceived right now.

 

Look up thousand years - it's normally indicative of a long time, not an accurate period. Satan was totally defeated at Calvary - Hebrews 2 says "through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil." What we do know is the radical contrast by the cross - the Gospel was open to the nations - commanded. People are deceived, until they are set free by the Gospel. The gates of hell are open. 

 

Hope that didn't come out snarky at all.  I don't agree with your view, but I am sincerely curious to see how you explain these apparent inconsistencies.

 

No - they are fair questions, and must be answered from Scripture. If my understanding were contradicted by Scripture, I would have to change - as I did when I came to the partial preterist understanding. BUT - I cannot completely understand all Scripture - can anyone? We tend to use an interpretative system that best answers our questions.

 

For me, the BIG unanswered disp premil failure is the fact that Christ's millennial rule fails completely with all the nations (except for the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city) uniting under Satan for the Gog-Magog war. There is a reliance on claimed "literal interpretation" of OT prophecy concerning Israel of a glorious age, but nowhere in the OT do we read of that glorious age ending.  

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The main fact that almost noone born again can identify in their wildest imagination that this is the kingdom nor does Prophesy even hint that the 1000 years would be an invisible spiritual kingdom. Plus we are at 2000 years and the clock is still ticking. Plus the entire world apart from a fraction of a percent know the Lord. Plus on and on and on. Come on, the Lord was far more visible to the known world in the OT than He is now.

 

I have tried to get it, my esteemed British colleague. Maybe I am not smart enough?  I will shut up about it.

Are you not a citizen of the Kingdom of God? Are you born again? What did Jesus say in John 3? The purpose of the present kingdom age is salvation of sinners of all nations. Repentant sinners are delivered [us] from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:  Paul had the same sort of problem with the Corinthians who claimed to reign. 

 

Read Rev. 20, and you will read that the souls of the martyrs live & reign - an spiritual, heavenly reign. Read Rev. 1, and you will se we are now kings and priests unto God. Now, look at your own understanding of the millennium - Christ's glorious reign fails completely as soon as Satan reappears on the scene. How is that different from the present age, except that the present age will end with the return of Christ for resurrection & judgement, and the glorious unending NH&NE.       

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I have not studied this, but a quick Wikipedia search (I know, I know...) mentions that Morgan Edwards wrote on a pre-tribulational rapture in 1788.

 

Found this interesting document documenting possible early rapture references.

http://www.bbc.edu/barndollar/Barndollar_Pre-Darby_Rapture.pdf

 

There have always been those who teach strange doctiines.  

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You overlooked the apostles in the Bible, the first century fathers etc.  It was the calvinist who attempted to change this because in the view of biblical interpretation the calvinst's interpretation falls apart.  This was discovered during the reformation and a Biblical view came back into the main stream.  Now the accepted teaching dispensationalism is being attacked by those who belief system crumbles in the face of God's Word.

 

I obviously cannot agree that the apostles taught any such thing.  The early church fathers certainly did NOT.

 

Back in 1990, a pastor was asked to write an article in Grace Magazine.  He asked me if I knew if any of the church fathers taught that the let and hindrance in 2 Thess. 2 referred to the Emperor and the Empire.  I said I didn't know but I would look it up, so I went to the library and borrowed all the books by the fathers that I could find.  I found that all, without exception taught that was the case.    Speaking from memory, Tertullian, for instance  said when the emperor was removed the man of sin would come then would follow the end of all things. He said that was why the whole church prayed for the safety of the emperor.

 

Even after Constantine removed the empire to the east, fulfilling the prophecy, it was mostly not recognized as such, by the church, as it was still called The Roman Empire, although no emperor ruled from Rome after that, except the successor of the emperors, the popes.    This was the time the Waldensians say they.separated from Rome, during the bishopric of Sylvester who was bishop of Rome at the time.

Edited by Invicta
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Your modifications helps. I don't know if that guy was in a hurry when he typed that or just unable to articulate his point well. He's too touchy for me to bother asking him to clarify. I tried that one time and rather than answer my seemingly simple question, he launched into an attack accusing me of not believing the Bible, of questioning God, and on and on.

 

Touchy  :boxing: I ain't touchy  :boxing:   

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I obviously cannot agree that the apostles taught any such thing.  The early church fathers certainly did NOT.

 

Back in 1990, a pastor was asked to write an article in Grace Magazine.  He asked me if I knew if any of the church fathers taught that the let and hindrance in 2 Thess. 2 referred to the Emperor and the Empire.  I said I didn't know but I would look it up, so I went to the library and borrowed all the books by the fathers that I could find.  I found that all, without exception taught that was the case.    Speaking from memory, Tertullian, for instance  said when the emperor was removed the man of sin would come then would follow the end of all things. He said that was why the whole church prayed for the safety of the emperor.

 

Even after Constantine removed the empire to the east, fulfilling the prophecy, it was mostly not recognized as such, by the church, as it was still called The Roman Empire, although no emperor ruled from Rome after that, except the successor of the emperors, the popes.    This was the time the Waldensians say they.separated from Rome, during the bishopric of Sylvester who was bishop of Rome at the time.

 

No because if you agreed with the truth, you would have to re-think everything you have convinced yourself that you believe. 

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I obviously cannot agree that the apostles taught any such thing.  The early church fathers certainly did NOT.

 

Back in 1990, a pastor was asked to write an article in Grace Magazine.  He asked me if I knew if any of the church fathers taught that the let and hindrance in 2 Thess. 2 referred to the Emperor and the Empire.  I said I didn't know but I would look it up, so I went to the library and borrowed all the books by the fathers that I could find.  I found that all, without exception taught that was the case.    Speaking from memory, Tertullian, for instance  said when the emperor was removed the man of sin would come then would follow the end of all things. He said that was why the whole church prayed for the safety of the emperor.

 

Even after Constantine removed the empire to the east, fulfilling the prophecy, it was mostly not recognized as such, by the church, as it was still called The Roman Empire, although no emperor ruled from Rome after that, except the successor of the emperors, the popes.    This was the time the Waldensians say they.separated from Rome, during the bishopric of Sylvester who was bishop of Rome at the time.

 

what???

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I got the basis for this chart from Rose - when you ask the basic questions, what is the Scriptural answer? Not that Rose even listed amil Preterism as an possible understanding of end times doctrine.

attachicon.gifEnd times chart.doc

Only 4 downloads of this chart - & one was mine to check how it looked.

 

If you are serious about eschatology, please have a look & comment.

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No because if you agreed with the truth, you would have to re-think everything you have convinced yourself that you believe. 

 

The Truth.  The truth is futurism, as I have often said, is a Jesuit invention.  

 

You can find links to the Jesuit books on this page, but you wouldn't believe the truth.

 

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htmhttp://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm

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Only 4 downloads of this chart - & one was mine to check how it looked.

 

If you are serious about eschatology, please have a look & comment.

I can only speak for myself, but I didn't notice anything new on there to comment about. It does line up with the recent studies I've been doing on the subject.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
Preterism is a Catholic doctrine that was cooked-up following the merging of Church and State under Constantine.
Constantine saw that Christians were "good citizens" in that they did not cause trouble, were honest and hard working Roman citizens. The adoption of Christianity as the State Religion was strictly political. False doctrines were created/adopted to counter any doctrines that was seen as causing trouble for the Empire and stable rule of the Emperor. It was strictly a political move to develop doctrine that the second coming and the millennium had already occurred.

The Great Commission will be fulfilled during the Tribulation by believing Jews who are miraculously saved (like Paul) following the Rapture of the Bride of Christ. These true genetic Israelites will receive the same gifts that the Sect of the Nazarenes received in Acts chapter 2. They will have the ability to supernaturally know any language and communicate the Gospel of God to the very ends of the earth. Edited by beameup
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Preterism is a Catholic doctrine that was cooked-up following the merging of Church and State under Constantine.
Constantine saw that Christians were "good citizens" in that they did not cause trouble, were honest and hard working Roman citizens. The adoption of Christianity as the State Religion was strictly political. False doctrines were created/adopted to counter any doctrines that was seen as causing trouble for the Empire and stable rule of the Emperor. It was strictly a political move to develop doctrine that the second coming and the millennium had already occurred.

The Great Commission will be fulfilled during the Tribulation by believing Jews who are miraculously saved (like Paul) following the Rapture of the Bride of Christ. These true genetic Israelites will receive the same gifts that the Sect of the Nazarenes received in Acts chapter 2. They will have the ability to supernaturally know any language and communicate the Gospel of God to the very ends of the earth.

 

The RCs may have adopted Preterism & used it to try to distract from the obvious apostasy of the Papacy. That does not mean they invented the doctrine. Read my posts - have I EVER quoted any source other than Scripture?

 

As for your second paragraph, that is an interpretation imposed on Scripture. You have been taught it & given Scripture references to support it, but the same Scriptures have other interpretations. It all depends on how you read Scripture, & whether you impose a paradigm.

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This is what the bible says about the post millinium world.

 

Revelation 21

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

 

7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

 

8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

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This is what the bible says about the post millinium world.

 

21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

Wonderful ! How many of these blessings are ours NOW, in Christ, by our glorious salvation !

 

v. 2 - We are already citizens of the New Jerusalem: 22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, (Heb. 12)  26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. (Gal. 4)

 

v.3 - Jesus is with us, he is our God & we are his people. 16 .... ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (2 Cor. 6)

 

v. 4 - Already we rejoice, already we are alive from the dead: As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing;... (2 Cor. 6) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5)

 

v. 5 - We are already renewed: Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Cor. 5)

 

v. 6 - Already we drink living water: He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (John 7)

 

v. 7 - We are now children of God, heirs in Christ: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1.) 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Rom. 8)

 

O dear - I've made a good case for post-mil, not to mention full Preterism ! But no - I look for the glorious appearing of our Saviour at the conclusion of this present amillennial Gospel age; an appearing for a Kingdom that will not be corrupted by any future Satanic rebellion needing a further intervention from heaven. Jesus IS King of kings and Lord of lords.

 

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; (2 Tim. 4)

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Covenanter,

 

 

Wonderful ! How many of these blessings are ours NOW, in Christ, by our glorious salvation !

 

21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

((Not yet.))

 

 

 

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

((Where? I am still looking for a city to come Hebrews 13:14 ))

 

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

((Come quikly Lord Jesus.))

 

 

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

((I still cry and I still have pains.))

 

 

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

((I am still old and fat but I am looking forward to my new body when Jesus calls me home.))

 

 

 

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

((Thank you Jesus))

 

 

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

((I don't have it yet, but I will.))

 

 

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

((They are still here for us to witness too.))

 

Wonderful ! How many of these blessings are ours NOW, in Christ, by our glorious salvation !

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