Way Of Life - Who Is The 12Th Apostle?

[John81]

There may be a passage that I'm not recalling offhand but if I'm not mistaken ....

 

Nowhere does it state such specifically about the apostles but speculation has been put forth concerning the twenty and four elders in Revelation being the 12 tribes (sans Dan but add Manasseh) and the 12 apostles. 

I've heard to preachers refer to something else, but I remembered one reference to the 12 Apostles.

 

"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Revelation 21:14

 

If nothing else, this clearly indicates there are 12 specific Apostles of Christ what will be listed in the very foundation. This in itself means those 12 are important.

 

As I've said, based upon the rest of the NT, it would seem this would refer to 12 that Jesus Himself chose. That would be the original 11 plus Paul, which Scripture clearly says is an Apostle chosen by Christ. Matthias was no chosen as an Apostle by Christ, as were the 11.

[ASongOfDegrees]

I've heard to preachers refer to something else, but I remembered one reference to the 12 Apostles.

 

"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Revelation 21:14

 

If nothing else, this clearly indicates there are 12 specific Apostles of Christ what will be listed in the very foundation. This in itself means those 12 are important.

 

As I've said, based upon the rest of the NT, it would seem this would refer to 12 that Jesus Himself chose. That would be the original 11 plus Paul, which Scripture clearly says is an Apostle chosen by Christ. Matthias was no chosen as an Apostle by Christ, as were the 11.

I would think that all the apostle were chosen by Christ. If not then they are false apostles.

[John81]

I would think that all the apostle were chosen by Christ. If not then they are false apostles.

Jesus chose the 12 for His specific Apostles. Judas, we know his fall, this left 11 and Scripture only records Christ choosing one more as His Apostle, and that was Paul.

 

The verse in Revelation 21 makes it clear it's referring to 12 specific Apostles, and not others outside that specific 12.

[ASongOfDegrees]

Jesus chose the 12 for His specific Apostles. Judas, we know his fall, this left 11 and Scripture only records Christ choosing one more as His Apostle, and that was Paul.

 

The verse in Revelation 21 makes it clear it's referring to 12 specific Apostles, and not others outside that specific 12.

So the other apostles weren't chosen by the Lord? If not who chose them? Isn't it the Lord that places these men within the church (I Cor. 12:28) as such? If they are apostles then the Lord chose them to be so, including Matthias.

[beameup]

Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles: II Tim 1:11, I Tim 2:7, Rom 11:13
Paul is the "masterbuilder" and his doctrine is "foundational" for the Bride of Christ.
I have begotten you through the gospel. Wherefore I beseech you, be followers of me. I Cor 4:15b-16

That is why I am a mid-Acts, rightly-dividing, Pauline dispensationalist,
following the doctrine laid out from Romans through Philemon.
I'm not a follower of the Jewish "Sect of the Nazarenes" laid out by "the Twelve".

The chart of the gospels: http://www.absolutetruthKJv.com/id2.html

[John81]

So the other apostles weren't chosen by the Lord? If not who chose them? Isn't it the Lord that places these men within the church (I Cor. 12:28) as such? If they are apostles then the Lord chose them to be so, including Matthias.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Do we have any reference in Scripture as to Christ specifically choosing any for His inner circle of 12 besides the original 12 and then Paul?

 

Certainly others were called (not directly chosen personally by Christ) to be Apostles, preachers, evangelists, etc.

[John81]

Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles: II Tim 1:11, I Tim 2:7, Rom 11:13
Paul is the "masterbuilder" and his doctrine is "foundational" for the Bride of Christ.
I have begotten you through the gospel. Wherefore I beseech you, be followers of me. I Cor 4:15b-16

That is why I am a mid-Acts, rightly-dividing, Pauline dispensationalist,
following the doctrine laid out from Romans through Philemon.
I'm not a follower of the Jewish "Sect of the Nazarenes" laid out by "the Twelve".

Huh?

[JerryNumbers]

I think, perhaps, it's not so much that Peter and the other 10 Apostles were wrong and/or sinful in appointing Matthias, but perhaps mayb jumped the gun on trying to fill Judas' vacancy.  How many times do we all do that?  We grow restless waiting on God to do something and try to hurry it along ourselves.  I also think one indication that the appointment of Matthias was in error can be seen in that they cast lots, a common OT practice for discerning the will of God.  It's worth noting that this appointment took place before the outpouring of the Spirit did not take place until the next chapter.  They would have done this prior to being guided by the Holy Spirit, and thus of their own will and conscience, even if it was well-intended.

 

But you don't know that, your guessing, you have nothing to back that up, so you could be 100% wrong.

[JerryNumbers]

This is what we've always thought.  No lying involved, Jerry.  Just human mistake - jumping the gun. It happens, even to good people. And, as Sword pointed out, they hadn't received the Holy Spirit as of yet, so they didn't have the divine guidance they could have if they had waited even one day.

 

Of course, another way of looking at it is that the Holy Spirit waited until Matthias was chosen to pour out Himself....

 

Again, speculation, you cannot build doctrine on speculating, what you think. As I posted to Sword, there is not one verse to back that train of though up.

[DaveW]

Interesting point of wording.
Acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Matthias was chosen but the Bible doesn't actually refer to him as an apostle, and in fact he is referred to here as 'numbered with the eleven' not with the twelve....
Now I know the term 'eleven' was used to refer to the Apostles without Judas, so it is a minor point but.....

More important is the fact that the name Matthias is never referrer to as specifically an Apostle, while Paul definitely is referred to specifically as an Apostle.

I actually don't think it is hugely important though......
They were both faithful servants or Matthias would never have been considered, and we know about Paul.

[John81]

Interesting point of wording.
Acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Matthias was chosen but the Bible doesn't actually refer to him as an apostle, and in fact he is referred to here as 'numbered with the eleven' not with the twelve....
Now I know the term 'eleven' was used to refer to the Apostles without Judas, so it is a minor point but.....

More important is the fact that the name Matthias is never referrer to as specifically an Apostle, while Paul definitely is referred to specifically as an Apostle.

I actually don't think it is hugely important though......
They were both faithful servants or Matthias would never have been considered, and we know about Paul.

Good points, and no, at this point it's not a matter worth battling over. We will find out for sure when we get to heaven and read the names on the foundation!

[No Nicolaitans]

Luke 10:1

After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

[Ukulelemike]

"And when it was day, he called [unto him] his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;"
 

The seventy were disciples, but only the 12, chosen personally BY Jesus, were called Apostles. There were only 12 aposltes of the Lamb, who's names will be in the 12 foundations of the walls of the New Jerusalem.

 

There are those who are apostles, meaning those sent with a purpose, but in the general sense, we are ALL apostles, being all sent with the gospel to the world. But we are distinct from the 12 Aostles of the Lamb. Jesus chose the first 12, one was false, and so Jesus chose the 12th, Paul, just as He had chosen the other 11.

[No Nicolaitans]

My reason for bringing up the 70 was that the Lord did "choose" other disciples.  In that instance, he chose 70; however he had 120 to choose from...

 

Acts 1:15

And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

 

Acts 1:23-26

23   And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24   And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25   That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26   And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

 

Peter and the other apostles had full confidence that the Lord chose Matthias.

 

Matthew 19:28

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

Judas Iscariot had not yet betrayed the Lord when Jesus Christ said those words, so it would appear that he was included in that future promise.  The one thing that I see that excludes Judas from that promise is when Jesus Christ said, "Ye which have followed me..."  We know Judas wasn't a true follower. However, at the same time, Paul wasn't a follower of Christ when the Lord said those words either.

 

I personally believe that Matthias was the twelfth apostle, but I'm not dogmatic about it. 

[JerryNumbers]

 

My reason for bringing up the 70 was that the Lord did "choose" other disciples.  In that instance, he chose 70; however he had 120 to choose from...

 

Acts 1:15

And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

 

Acts 1:23-26

23   And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24   And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25   That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26   And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

 

Peter and the other apostles had full confidence that the Lord chose Matthias.

 

Matthew 19:28

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

Judas Iscariot had not yet betrayed the Lord when Jesus Christ said those words, so it would appear that he was included in that future promise.  The one thing that I see that excludes Judas from that promise is when Jesus Christ said, "Ye which have followed me..."  We know Judas wasn't a true follower. However, at the same time, Paul wasn't a follower of Christ when the Lord said those words either.

 

I personally believe that Matthias was the twelfth apostle, but I'm not dogmatic about it. 

 

 

Was not 120 about the number of church members of the church at Jerusalem? And after Peter preached that great sermon many were added.

 

Ac 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)