One World Empire?

[John81]

When we look at Scripture we see that four empires are listed (Daniel, etc.) and all four are said to have ruled all the earth. However, did Babylon rule the whole earth? Did the Medo-Persians? Did the Greeks? Did the Romans?

 

Then there is talk of a future empire to rule the earth. Most teach this means a one world kingdom under one ruler. Why? If the first four empires are described as ruling all the earth, when they each obviously only ruled a portion, why do we assume the final empire will indeed encompass the entire earth?

 

I've heard countless prophecy preachers speak of how mighty the first four empires were and then declare that after Rome there has been no mighty empire. That's not even true. There have been several empires of various sizes. What's most striking is the total lack of acknowledging the British Empire, which at its height encompassed the earth and approximately 2/3 of the earth was under British rule. The British Empire had far more power and was much larger than any of the four empires mentioned in Scripture, yet the prophecy preachers totally ignore the British Empire and they state no mighty empire has existed since Rome but that a world empire is coming.

 

Is it possible Scripture is saying something different than what most prophecy preachers proclaim, and what many of us have been taught?

 

I keep in mind that the Jews, religious leaders and common folk alike, thought they understood the coming of the Christ but they turned out to be wrong.

[irishman]

I have always said that prophecy is "iffy" to say the least.  Actually we add a lot to scripture, or maybe just assume a lot, and prophecy is no different.  It takes a lot of "filling in" to make sense to us,

[Eric Stahl]

Daniel 7:23-27

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

²⁴And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

²⁵And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

²⁶But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

²⁷And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

Revelation 17:15-17

¹⁵And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

¹⁶And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

¹⁷For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

[Covenanter]

Eric - Daniel's visions are explained within the prophecy as particularly and specifically dealing with the empires that followed the fall of Babylon - the intertestamental period.

 

These kingdoms end with Jesus claim his eternal kingdom:

Dan. 7:¹³ I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

¹⁴ And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

 

²⁷ And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

That is the one world empire prophesied in Scripture.

[Invicta]

We are still in the latter part of the 4th Empire, the Roman.  Part strong and part not.  

[beameup]

The "times of the Gentiles" is not completed yet - the "fullness of the Gentiles" has not occurred yet.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part
(some Jews get saved by Christ as part of the Church)
is happened to Israel (genetic Jews), until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (genetic Jews) For this is my COVENANT unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Romans 11:25-27

see Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2

[JerryNumbers]

I suppose next that will be coming is that the flood did not flood the whole earth. Just a portion of it.

 

I suppose much of that comes about because the public schools are teaching there is no God & that old 'black book' is nothing but lies & we came about because of the big bang.

[John81]

I suppose next that will be coming is that the flood did not flood the whole earth. Just a portion of it.

 

I suppose much of that comes about because the public schools are teaching there is no God & that old 'black book' is nothing but lies & we came about because of the big bang.

Scripture is clear the whole earth flooded. Archeology even confirms this. The flood doesn't fit the topic at all.

 

How do we explain that Scripture says certain empires ruled the whole earth when we know they only ruled a very small portion? We know that Babylon ruled only a small area. The same is true for the other empires mentioned in the prophecies as well. Scripture refers to them as having ruled the whole earth, yet they only ruled a very small area.

 

Knowing this, why do we believe that a fifth empire, what most call a revived Roman Empire of some sort, will actually literally rule over the whole earth rather than a small portion just as the other four empires listed in the same prophecies? If the empires are consistent, it would seem the fifth empire would be of similar sort to the previous four, all of which ruled a small portion of earth, yet in God's view they are somehow said to have ruled the whole earth.

 

Discussing this is in no way saying the Scripture isn't correct, it's seeking understanding.

[beameup]

Discussing this is in no way saying the Scripture isn't correct, it's seeking understanding.

I've found several things that are "taken for granted" because someone in the past did not look very carefully at a prophetic passage (or verse)
and it gets passed on as factual and accurate for generations (like an urban myth).
A look into the original language usually clears this up, as the Holy Spirit is extremely specific in such matters.
For example, I previously mentioned that "horses" in Ezekiel 38 actually reads "leaper" in the Hebrew, and thus could be translated differently in present day English.

[JerryNumbers]

Scripture is clear the whole earth flooded. Archeology even confirms this. The flood doesn't fit the topic at all.

 

How do we explain that Scripture says certain empires ruled the whole earth when we know they only ruled a very small portion? We know that Babylon ruled only a small area. The same is true for the other empires mentioned in the prophecies as well. Scripture refers to them as having ruled the whole earth, yet they only ruled a very small area.

 

Knowing this, why do we believe that a fifth empire, what most call a revived Roman Empire of some sort, will actually literally rule over the whole earth rather than a small portion just as the other four empires listed in the same prophecies? If the empires are consistent, it would seem the fifth empire would be of similar sort to the previous four, all of which ruled a small portion of earth, yet in God's view they are somehow said to have ruled the whole earth.

 

Discussing this is in no way saying the Scripture isn't correct, it's seeking understanding.

 

Read & believe the Scriptures, those who want to question God's Word, refuse to believe Him, you will not be able to give them an answer that will satisfy  them.

[Ukulelemike]

I think a big difference is that today, the entire world is connected in a manner it wasn't before-you could have calamity in one place, and a hundred mies away, they might know nothing about it.Today, through communications, internet, TV, radio, etc, the entire world is connected, as opposed to the part of the world that were what might be called the known world-the parts that were connected by trade and travel-for them, contextually, that WAS the entire world. Now, the entire earth would indeed be the entire earth, because more and more it is becoming one already. Its the same manner by which the entier world will see Jesus' return-if there is a massive military movement against Israel comprrising numerous armies, surely every eye will be there watching in one manner or another-really, that very prophecy could not be fulfilled until recently when technology made it possible for every eye to see Him. Granted, there may be something supernatural involved in our seeing Him when He returns, but technology has made it actually humanly possible now for the entire world to see something occurring in Israel, at the same time.

[Covenanter]

Can anyone tell where a one world empire is prophesied - other than that of Christ in the NH&NE ?

[John81]

I think a big difference is that today, the entire world is connected in a manner it wasn't before-you could have calamity in one place, and a hundred mies away, they might know nothing about it.Today, through communications, internet, TV, radio, etc, the entire world is connected, as opposed to the part of the world that were what might be called the known world-the parts that were connected by trade and travel-for them, contextually, that WAS the entire world. Now, the entire earth would indeed be the entire earth, because more and more it is becoming one already. Its the same manner by which the entier world will see Jesus' return-if there is a massive military movement against Israel comprrising numerous armies, surely every eye will be there watching in one manner or another-really, that very prophecy could not be fulfilled until recently when technology made it possible for every eye to see Him. Granted, there may be something supernatural involved in our seeing Him when He returns, but technology has made it actually humanly possible now for the entire world to see something occurring in Israel, at the same time.

Yet even today the term "everyone", "whole nation" and "whole world" are used when that's not the actual case.

 

How often do we read something like "all of America" or "everyone in America" was stunned and mourned on 9-11? Yet we know that's not true. Some in America actually rejoiced, some didn't pay much attention to it at all, others had different reactions.

 

Many times I've read of the "whole world" being in sadness and mourning when the space shuttle exploded. Again, we know that wasn't the case. Many in the world didn't even know about it, some rejoiced, many didn't give much thought to it at all.

 

Why would four empires be described as having rule over the whole earth, when they only ruled over a small area, and yet we think another empire will arise that will encompass the literal whole earth?

 

This "final empire" is called a revived Roman Empire, and we know the Roman Empire only covered a small portion of the earth. If we are to believe a final empire will be some form of a revived Roman Empire, why would not that be seen as an empire similar to the previous rather than something that actually encompasses the actual entire earth?

 

Reading through writings of various Christian pastors and writers it's amazing at the multitude of predictions they have made, and continue to make, to try and make a way for a truly world encompassing empire. The RCC, League of Nations, UN, EU and other entities have been held forth as the means for one world empire. As these theories have seemed to be incorrect, in more recent years the idea has been put forth the revived Roman Empire means all the nations of earth that have anyone living in them from people groups which were once within the Roman Empire. It's often put forward this won't be a literal empire, but an empire of "ideas and economy".

 

At the same time, with the resurgence of Islam and the weakening of the RCC, many have scrambled to change their theories here as well.

 

In any event, reading through the various interpretations of these prophecies over the years, decades and centuries, it becomes clear that the understanding of these prophecies changes with the times and while doing so, they fail to address certain aspects of the prophecies which are difficult to deal with. Such is the case with regards to the references to "whole earth" which don't literally mean the whole earth and why a consistent reading of this meaning in the prophecies isn't employed.

[Eric Stahl]

Can anyone tell where a one world empire is prophesied - other than that of Christ in the NH&NE ?

yes

 

Daniel 7:23-27

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

²⁴And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

²⁵And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

²⁶But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

²⁷And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

Revelation 17:15-17

¹⁵And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

¹⁶And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

¹⁷For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

 

As Invicta said "We are still in the latter part of the 4th Empire, the Roman.  Part strong and part not."

[John81]

Yet no answer to the questions.

 

How about another. How are we in "the latter part of the 4th Roman Empire" when that empire had its latter part and ceased to exist many centuries ago?