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JerryNumbers

Zimmerman Found Not Guilty

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Anyway, you are an adult, and know much better how to handle yourself than a teenager.  There is no telling what a frightened teenager will do.

 

I don't know what the law is in the USA but in the UK there is a prinicple that you must not go beyond 'reasonable force' in self-defence. In other words feeling threatened, even being attacked, does not give one carte blanche to try to kill the other person. If the dead kid was repeatedly trying to smash the other guy's head on the pavement (as some have suggested) then surely wasn't he trying to kill him?

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This is what I've always heard, as well as the one about cracking the whip at the slaves. My 3x great grand daddy and two of his 3 sons fought for the Confedracy and the two sons were killed in the war. When the war was over my 3x grandad became a Baptist preacher and moved to Florida. The story is told that the last of his 3 sons, my 2x great grand dad, hid in a well to avoid beinbg drafted; he was 14 at the time. If he hadn't done that, I might not be here. My folks were always too poor to own slaves and, as far as I know, they weren't cattlemen either. My 2x great grand daddy's log cabin is at the Science Discovery Center museum in Panama City .It has a sign in the exhibit with his name and a short family history. Here's an interior shot..... http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__thuDkhvRVM/TPaFHwRf8EI/AAAAAAAABr4/2XvclPCxE6I/s1600/044.JPG

http://scienceanddiscoverycenter.org/

 

 

That bed sure has some thick springs & a mattress.  :smug:

 

I passed a house that had two # 3 wash tubs hanging on the side of a shed. Made me think of taking a bath in the back yard behind the old hedge during the summer many years ago.

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The more significant issue in this instance that has not been discussed much is the irresponsible use of a gun and the danger of taking police work into one's own hands.

 

Zimmerman was negligent and reckless in his actions.  After calling the police to report suspicious activity, that should have been the end of his actions.  Instead, he stalked this boy.  It is hard to say who started the altercation, but I'd be afraid if someone were stalking me and would feel the need to defend myself or run.  

 

This is an example of why I am uncomfortable with people walking around with guns in highly populated places.  It is dangerous.  Good motivations can go bad in an instant.

 

Zimmerman's license to carry a gun should be revoked, I believe, because he did not use it responsibly.  He stalked someone and provoked an altercation and then shot the boy in "self defense."  

 

Also, I think a civil suit is in store against Zimmerman for his negligent and reckless actions.  I do not believe what he did rose to the level of criminal, though manslaughter was certainly close, but it does rise to the level of negligence and reckless, and he should be held civilly responsible for his actions.

 

If someone had you on your back, they were on top of you,  beating your head against the side walk, & you had a gun would you try to use it or let them beat your brains out?

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In trial, the testimony was that he called the police and the police told him not to follow Martin.  Zimmerman then followed him.  That is irresponsible and taking police work into one's own hands.  

 

The testimony from the 911 dispatcher was that Zimmerman said he was following Martin, and the 911 dispatcher told him not to follow Martin.  He disregarded this advice and took police work into his own hands.

 

He had a gun.  He should know that tailing someone who does not know you will arouse fright and suspicion and could easily lead to an altercation.  Which is exactly what happened.  Martin felt afraid because a strange man was following him.  It does not surprise me at all that an altercation broke out.

 

 

Wrong, it was not the police who told him that, it was the dispatcher, & they have to say that to keep from being liable. You being a lawyer ought to know that.

 

And at that time he was already out of his car following him, it would be impossible for him to take back the following being as it was already started.

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Okay, thanks, I see where you're coming from more now. 

 

In this particular case, I would think that the fact he was acting in self-defense when actually shooting would preclude any damages needing to get paid. Unless they want to bring a suit against Martin's family for any brain damage incurred during the attack. But that's my opinion and worth what you paid for it! :frog:

 

 

Right on, he has already been found not guilty, he should not be called back into court again, it should be over with.

 

Of course I'm against lawsuits.

 

Long story, but I will tell only a small part. I had tow neck surgeries & still having major trouble, went to a new NS, & took 3 complete sets of MRI's. My new NS looked them over telling me, that NS did a great surgery the 1st time, the before & after is there, I could not have done better. But the 2nd surgery it seems all he did was cut you open, & sewed you back up for the money, for we have the before MRI, & the after MRI, I believe he did the 2nd surgery for the money.  :puzzled3:

 

Them went on pointing out troubles within my neck, saying the doctor did not even get close to them, did nothing about them, operated at the wrong places, & they are all on the 1st MRI, the 2nd MRI, & still there on the 3rd MRI.

 

I asked, "You mean to tell me they show up plain on both of the MRI's yet it seems he missed them or paid no attention to them?'

 

The NS stated, "All i can say is they were there on the two sets of MRI that he reviewed, & they are still there now, i can't imagine how any NS could mess them for they show up very plain on all 3 sets of MRI's.

 

suppose the 1st thing many people would do is sue, not me. So I can say what I would do, I've been there, I don't believe in suing.

 

Oh, after this he did a Myelogram on my neck & found another problem, bone spurs hiding behind the titanium plate & screws on C6 that were put in my neck on the 1st surgery. I said hiding, they were not really hiding, the titanium plate & screws causes distortion on the MRI somewhat & they fail to show up on the MRI, but showed up very clear with the Myelogram.

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There is no evidence he was a thug.  From, everything I've read, he was a typical teenager who had gotten in a little trouble at school.  He had smoked a little marijuana (and way why he was staying with his father).  Many kids have smoked a little dope.  He was suspended for painting some graffiti on a locker.  Yes, he caused a little trouble, but there has been no past history with law enforcement and no history of violence.  

 

This was a teenager who was scared that a strange adult man was stalking him.  I'd be scared as well.  You say you would have shot him before hi could hit you.  If Martin had been carrying a gun, would he have been justified in shooting Zimmerman for following him?  

 

Zimmerman is not innocent in this.  No, he did not commit a crime, but he acted in a way to make Martin feel threatened, which I believe led Martin to acting violently to protect himself.  This escalated, and Zimmerman had a gun.

 

You do not claim Zimmerman is a thug for trying to defend himself.  Why do you say Martin was a thug for doing the same thing?  A grown man was following him.  He was a teenager, and we know teens do not always have the best judgment or impulse control, especially when scared.  

 

This is not a "liberal" "conservative" issue as you try to make it out to be. It is a tragedy a senseless death that could have easily been avoided.

 

M-DSPD Cover Up – The Curious Case Of Trayvon Martin’s Backpack With Stolen Jewelry and Burglary Tool…

 

How a Miami School Crime Cover-Up Policy Led to Trayvon Martin’s Death

 

Please read about the real Trayvon.

 

Seems a school superintendent & a chief of police let the young man get away with crimes, if they had done their job, he just might still be living today. But they really just passed to trouble teen on to others while trying to make their self look good.

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I don't know what the law is in the USA but in the UK there is a prinicple that you must not go beyond 'reasonable force' in self-defence. In other words feeling threatened, even being attacked, does not give one carte blanche to try to kill the other person. If the dead kid was repeatedly trying to smash the other guy's head on the pavement (as some have suggested) then surely wasn't he trying to kill him?

 

If your on your back, on the ground, or sidewalk in this case, & the other person is on top of you, hitting your head against the sidewalk, what force would you use?

 

Would you just lay there letting him keep on beating your head against the sidewalk? What if you had a gun, if you could get it out would you use it?

 

One thing for sure, in that position you surely could not retreat.

 

Many people in that position would not have had the strength to get the gun out & use it, & they might have been killed.

 

If Trayvon knew he had a gun he just might not have done this, & or would have went for his gun to keep him from trying to use it.

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M-DSPD Cover Up – The Curious Case Of Trayvon Martin’s Backpack With Stolen Jewelry and Burglary Tool…

 

How a Miami School Crime Cover-Up Policy Led to Trayvon Martin’s Death

 

Please read about the real Trayvon.

 

Seems a school superintendent & a chief of police let the young man get away with crimes, if they had done their job, he just might still be living today. But they really just passed to trouble teen on to others while trying to make their self look good.

 

Luke 8:12 "For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad."

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Trayvon confronted Zimmerman and sucker punched him when Zimmerman was heading back to his vehicle.  Zimmerman was told not to follow Martin AFTER he was already out of his vehicle. Martin confronted him and sucker punched him as he was heading back to his vehicle. So the excuse that Martin was scared for his life that a man was following him doesn't float. If I was scared that a "gay rapist" was following me I wouldn't circle around to punch him in the face and do a little MMA on him as he was heading back to his vehicle. 

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Meanwhile, black preachers across the land are calling for blacks to protest this weekend in "peaceful" marches. In their own comments they give away their true goal, which is a new "civil rights" movement which they hope to use to push their agenda, gain more millions of dollars in government hand outs, and gain political clout.

 

Plus it seems to keep the black criminals from being punished. Its as if some of them wants a free pass for the black criminals.

 

Of course for the leaders its all about squeezing money out of their fellow black people so they can live high on the hog at their expense. And the black leaders are the ones behind this.

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 If the dead kid was repeatedly trying to smash the other guy's head on the pavement (as some have suggested) then surely wasn't he trying to kill him?

 

Trayvon was quoted as saying (while on on top of and beating Zimmerman), "You're Gonna Die Tonight...!"  (Curse words excluded)

 

@NO_LIMIT_NI$$A even covered Zimmerman's mouth to keep him from screaming and alerting others of his plight.

 

If someone had you on your back, they were on top of you,  beating your head against the side walk, & you had a gun would you try to use it or let them beat your brains out?

 

 

If Trayvon knew he had a gun he just might not have done this, & or would have went for his gun to keep him from trying to use it.

 

According to Zimmerman, Trayvon did discover his sidearm and made a move for it.

Edited by swathdiver

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If someone had you on your back, they were on top of you,  beating your head against the side walk, & you had a gun would you try to use it or let them beat your brains out?

Of course I can't say for certain how I would respond.  I certainly hope I would not shoot someone to kill them.  I would fight back with my fists, feet, knees and try to get away.  Honestly, I don't even own a gun, so it's not an issue.

Edited by kindofblue1977

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Funny, if you follow and are attacked, it is all your fault. But if you follow and are correct, you are a hero (and these boys are heros).

http://www.fox8live.com/story/22844442/teen-boys-chase-kidnapper-on-their-bikes-to-save-5-year-old-girl

They sure are!  I just wish they would get more media attention.  I think it might go a long way to salve some feelings!

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I don't know what the law is in the USA but in the UK there is a prinicple that you must not go beyond 'reasonable force' in self-defence. In other words feeling threatened, even being attacked, does not give one carte blanche to try to kill the other person. If the dead kid was repeatedly trying to smash the other guy's head on the pavement (as some have suggested) then surely wasn't he trying to kill him?

Exactly, Carl.  My best friend was murdered in this manner - by someone who also was on drugs and otherwise unarmed.  As George's brother said, Trayvon was armed with the a sidewalk.  

 

Most people don't realize that Trayvon was actually a pretty big guy (basically because the media showed sweet pictures of him as a 12 year old...).  An inch taller than my husband.  And he actually had some muscle to him (I saw a picture of him without a shirt on - no, he wasn't Mr. America, but he wasn't scrawny, either.

 

GZ was returning to his truck. TM came after him.  Let's say TM was scared (I highly doubt it, to be honest. I don't know many 17-year-olds who have the common sense to have fear, let alone one who has 3 different drugs in his system...) because he thought he was being followed.  GZ turned back to go to his truck per the instructions received from the 911 operator.  IF GZ had been in the wrong for following TM, that wrong was over in the eyes of the law.  If it were a crime, that particular crime had ended.  However, since TM went after GZ, he perpetrated ANOTHER crime. He jumped GZ, broke his nose, got him on the ground (now, since GZ had a gun, he could easily have pulled it at the time and shot him then...he didn't...), and began bashing his head on the ground.  He was seen doing that - or at least, the movement that was in line with it.  The back of GZ's head proved it.  

 

My best friend's brain (I mentioned this before) looked like hamburger meat.  That's what happens when the head is smashed against concrete. Our skulls are marvelous creations by God, but they are not indestructible. When the force of immovable concrete meets movable skull, with the pressure applied from someone who has a little bit of strength and is on a drug that causes aggression (as TM was - autopsy showed that) - we have a weapon.  A life-threatening weapon.  And under FL's very wise stand your ground law, GZ protected himself.

 

We can sit around and second guess and moralize all we want.  We can say TM was in fear of his life (but, really, if he were, he would have run away NOT toward GZ...especially when GZ was walking away...), but I don't believe he was. I think he thought he'd found someone on whom to vent his aggression.  That's my opinion, and really, that's all any of us have.

 

The fact of the matter is GZ was found not guilty under FL law, with the panel of 6 women deciding - after studying the law carefully, according to one of the jurors - and so it is done.  Going after a civil suit will simply prolong the hard feelings that have been stirred up by the POTUS, Holder, and the media.  We'll see if they do.  GZ is looking at suing NBC for starting the whole thing with their lies about what he said to 911, and he is looking at suing the prosecutor and TM's family.  His life has been threatened. The New Black Panthers have put out a reward on his head.  And the POTUS says nothing...Holder says nothing about that...Carney claims not to have heard about the threats on GZ and his family's lives...But they think the feds have the right to, once again, step all over the Constitution and threaten a civil suit.  Methinks they are using this to keep people's attention away from the very real crimes of this administration.

 

Oh, and FWIW:

 

 

Among its reports, Trayvon Martin’s drug use, explaining how the Skittles and Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail drink he carried that night are ingredients that, when mixed with dextromethorphan (DXM) cough syrup, create “Lean”, a concocted high which can cause psychosis and aggression over the longer term. According to the autopsy report, Martin’s liver showed damage consistent with DXM abuse.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/it-wasnt-just-skittles-trayvon-was-carrying/#Srqa9F3kSdzVehuU.99 

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Of course I can't say for certain how I would respond.  I certainly hope I would not shoot someone to kill them.  I would fight back with my fists, feet, knees and try to get away.  Honestly, I don't even own a gun, so it's not an issue.

 

Yes its an issue, you made it an issue, you seem to be calling George a murderer because he defended his life & lived to tell about it, & was only prosecuted because of threats in that community even those there was no evidence supporting he committed a crime.

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Yes its an issue, you made it an issue, you seem to be calling George a murderer because he defended his life & lived to tell about it, & was only prosecuted because of threats in that community even those there was no evidence supporting he committed a crime.

 

No, I've never said ZImmerman was a murderer.  In fact, I said as far as I can tell, he did not commit any crime.  

 

My point is that he made a mistake in following Martin.  He should not have followed him, which probably spooked Martin.  Had he merely called the police and not followed him, this entire thing would have been avoided.  

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Of course I can't say for certain how I would respond.  I certainly hope I would not shoot someone to kill them.  I would fight back with my fists, feet, knees and try to get away.  Honestly, I don't even own a gun, so it's not an issue.

 

Well then KOB, I would have hoped that you hugged your daughters and kissed your wife because that young man would have killed you.  In just seconds (while figuring out how to draw your weapon unseen and then aim it at non-life threatening parts of the man who was in the process of murdering you) while contemplating your next move you would have lost consciousness from having your head bashed in and you'd be dead.  

 

I'm too old, fat and out of shape to get into any fight let alone one with a murderous teenager.  My .44 gives me the ability to come home to my wife and daughters or defend them from those who would do us harm.

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My God gives me the ability to come home to my wife and son and He defends us and protects us from those who would do us harm.

 

"Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness." Isaiah 41:10

 

 

Psalm 91

King James Version (KJV)

 

91 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;

10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.

15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

 

 

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'President Barack Obama on Friday called on Americans to respect the verdict handed down in the George Zimmerman trial and compared himself to slain black teenager Trayvon Martin.
 
"Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago," Obama said during a surprise appearance in the White House briefing room.'
 
 
He just had to keep pushing it.
 

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My God gives me the ability to come home to my wife and son and He defends us and protects us from those who would do us harm.

 

"Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness." Isaiah 41:10

 

 

Psalm 91

King James Version (KJV)

 

91 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;

10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.

15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

 

 

 

And sometimes that ability and defense comes via a firearm which God does not forbid us to own.   :peek:

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No, I've never said ZImmerman was a murderer.  In fact, I said as far as I can tell, he did not commit any crime.  

 

My point is that he made a mistake in following Martin.  He should not have followed him, which probably spooked Martin.  Had he merely called the police and not followed him, this entire thing would have been avoided.  

 

Mistake? No. Black men in hoodies had been robbing this community & getting away with it. And this was a black man with a hoodie.

 

There is no law that says you cannot follow someone, especially someone your suspicious of walking through your community.

 

The mistake that he made was turning & walking away, he should have been very alert, watchful.

 

If more communities had people like George there would be fewer robberies in the communities.

 

And as previously stated carrying a bag of skittles & a can of tea does not mean it contains skittles & tea, except for the uninformed & foolish.

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