Abortion as viewed by Peter Ruckman

[Guest Guest]

[quote]If I had as much passion defending the man as some of you have against him, I'd be a Ruckman worshipper. I seriously think some of you really hate Dr. Ruckman, a fellow brother in Christ.[/quote]

Hate isn't exactly the right word, if the man would repent of his attitude, many of his doctrines, and quit leading people astray I would no longer have anything against him. Yet as things stand he is a destructive false teacher so yes many of us are passionate against his teachings.

There is nothing wrong with that biblically. Even Paul, when dealing with destructive false teachers, once said:

[color=#0000FF]"Galatians 5:12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you."[/color]

[Pastorj]

Calvary,

Of all the people on this board, I am simply shocked that you are a Ruckmanite and that you would not wholeheartedly reject this garbage.

Everyone else,
Whether you disagree with him on the Bible issue or not is irrelevant here. The fact is he has gone too far in his position on the beginning of life. Scripture is clear on when life begins.

[pneu-engine]

[quote="Samer"]Leviticus 17:11 says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Well, enough said.

If a woman has a miscarriage that baby goes to Heaven. Every Christian woman knows that...it's how God provides peace to that dear woman after something so tragic happens to her. My little Benjamin is alive and a living soul. I tell him about Jesus and sing to him and pray for him. I KNOW he's a living and breathing SOUL.

The more I read and hear what Ruckman says from his own mouth, the more troubled I am by this man. I believe that he has a mental problem and possibly a spiritual one. I don't mean to offend any one here, but the stuff he is teaching is WRONG, and is to be rejected if you truly hold to the King James Bible as your final authority.

edit: this was Rachel posting, not Samer.[/quote]
A most excellent post, Jp. :amen: :thumb :clap: :clap: :clap:

We did that (reading and singing to them in the womb) too with both our babies, and now they are grown with families of their own and they are doing it with their unborn babies as well that are still in the womb.

[joyfulpraise93]

[quote="Calvary"]

Dr Ruckman later went on to say, Don't you go out of here saying Ruckman says it's alright to kill babies, don't you do that, I didn't say that. What I said was that life doesn't start until that breath is taken, and if you stick by the book [b]you can't commit murder where there is no life[/b]. Ruckman this, Ruckman that, some of you have Ruckmanitis...[/quote]

Oh you'd better believe is someone came and killed my baby inside of me it would be murder. That is what God teaches and it IS the truth. Saying that there is no real soul, no true life before birth is going down a very wrong road.

I am shocked that so many people think that this stuff he teaches on this issue is true. Try having a miscarriage....and THEN tell me you believe what this guy is saying. I'd rather rest on the promises of God's Word myself instead of reading into things and making up stuff that makes no sense.

BTW...I don't hate Peter Ruckman, and I agree with Seth on this one, if he'd stop saying such horribly heretical things, I could stop rejecting him. He's just way off the wall on some stuff and I think it should be exposed as I would do of any man who was teaching false things.

[Guest Guest]

[quote="joyfulpraise93"][quote="Calvary"]

Dr Ruckman later went on to say, Don't you go out of here saying Ruckman says it's alright to kill babies, don't you do that, I didn't say that. What I said was that life doesn't start until that breath is taken, and if you stick by the book [b]you can't commit murder where there is no life[/b]. Ruckman this, Ruckman that, some of you have Ruckmanitis...[/quote]

Oh you'd better believe is someone came and killed my baby inside of me it would be murder. That is what God teaches and it IS the truth. Saying that there is no real soul, no true life before birth is going down a very wrong road.

I am shocked that so many people think that this stuff he teaches on this issue is true. Try having a miscarriage....and THEN tell me you believe what this guy is saying. I'd rather rest on the promises of God's Word myself instead of reading into things and making up stuff that makes no sense.[/quote]

Rachel, I don't see how "life" and "soul" are the same word. Dr. Ruckman never said that a baby inside a womb isn't alive. I don't understand why he believes it's ok for a raped woman to have an abortion, since it's clear in the Bible that if a man kills the baby while inside the mother, he's committed murder. Like I said before, I definitely disagree with the Doc on this one, but I understand the "breath of life/soul" argument.

(To everyone else) You call can claim you don't hate Dr. Ruckman, but actions (or rather, attitudes in your posts) speak louder.

[Guest Guest]

For Dr. Ruckman to "assume" that a child is NOT a living soul until he/she takes his/her breath on this earth is downright heresy. I cannot believe the nerve of this guy. This is paganism at best. Everything that I have seen points to the fact that a child - if miscarried - is in heaven. Also, if a child is (God forbid) aborted - that child is in heaven.

This teaching isn't even taught from the pulpit in the Roman Catholic Church. Where did this come from? This is pure heresy. Nonsense is more like it. No wonder my IFB church doesn't sell any of Ruckman's materials in the church bookstore. This is insanity. WOW!! I thought I saw it all! :roll

I don't condone anything that forbids an innocent life...at all!!

[deafnva77]

[quote="KJB_Princess"][quote="joyfulpraise93"][quote="Calvary"]

Dr Ruckman later went on to say, Don't you go out of here saying Ruckman says it's alright to kill babies, don't you do that, I didn't say that. What I said was that life doesn't start until that breath is taken, and if you stick by the book [b]you can't commit murder where there is no life[/b]. Ruckman this, Ruckman that, some of you have Ruckmanitis...[/quote]

Oh you'd better believe is someone came and killed my baby inside of me it would be murder. That is what God teaches and it IS the truth. Saying that there is no real soul, no true life before birth is going down a very wrong road.

I am shocked that so many people think that this stuff he teaches on this issue is true. Try having a miscarriage....and THEN tell me you believe what this guy is saying. I'd rather rest on the promises of God's Word myself instead of reading into things and making up stuff that makes no sense.[/quote]

Rachel, I don't see how "life" and "soul" are the same word. [u][b]Dr. Ruckman never said that a baby inside a womb isn't alive. [/b][/u]I don't understand why he believes it's ok for a raped woman to have an abortion, since it's clear in the Bible that if a man kills the baby while inside the mother, he's committed murder. Like I said before, I definitely disagree with the Doc on this one, but I understand the "breath of life/soul" argument.

(To everyone else) You call can claim you don't hate Dr. Ruckman, but actions (or rather, attitudes in your posts) speak louder.[/quote]

Ruckman said the baby inside is alive, alright... but put them in an animal category instead of human being:

[quote]Now I?ll grant you that the child is an organism. I?ll grant you that it may be alive and have animal life. [/quote]

[joyfulpraise93]

Rachel, I don't see how "life" and "soul" are the same word. Dr. Ruckman never said that a baby inside a womb isn't alive. I don't understand why he believes it's ok for a raped woman to have an abortion, since it's clear in the Bible that if a man kills the baby while inside the mother, he's committed murder. Like I said before, I definitely disagree with the Doc on this one, but I understand the "breath of life/soul" argument.

(To everyone else) You call can claim you don't hate Dr. Ruckman, but actions (or rather, attitudes in your posts) speak louder.

He breathed into his nostrils the breath of LIFE and man became a living SOUL. Looks like life and soul go together in this very passage we have been discussing. Adam was a LOT different than any other human being on this planet. He was created and not born of a woman as everyone else has been. To say that a baby that is ALIVE in womb is not a living soul is to say that baby has animal or beast life. Why would God require punishment for someone who takes that baby's life it were just a beast life? It wasn't wrong in the Old Testament to kill an animal, and if a baby in the womb only had beast life (without a soul) it wouldn't be wrong to take it's life. That's just following out the logic.

Kathie, I know that you don't hold to all of Ruckman's teachings. I also know that you know I don't "hate" Peter Ruckman. However seeing a lot of the things he has to say causes me to question his ability in discerning and rightly dividing the Scriptures. It's sad to read the many things he says in his writings. It hurts me to the innermost to hear him say my child is not really a soul. That if something happens to Benjamin he'll just die and go into the ground like an animal. This doesn't line up with things that the Bible say about babies in the womb. Think about John the Baptist in the womb of his mother....he had knowledge and was moved by the Holy Spirit to leap in his mother's womb!....and he only had beast life? I don't think that would make sense at all.

[Guest Guest]

This is definitely one of those issues where the facts could point either way depending on how you interpret certain verses in the Bible.

My husband and I are listening to that audio from that message by Dr. Ruckman right now. Later in the message, he tells everyone that if they "take advantage" of a baby not being a "living soul" and kill that baby, that's between them and the Lord. In other words, he tells people that they shouldn't kill a baby even if it isn't a living soul yet. Dr. Ruckman does not defend abortion, except in the case of a woman being raped (and that's where I disagree with him, because a baby conceived in sin still has the right to live). There are many people with good intentions out there who would agree with him on that... because they don't really think about the baby's life when they think of the tragedy of a raped woman. That's wrong on his part, but it doesn't make him a pro-choice advocate.

I can completely understand why Rachel and Samer and anyone who has recently had children would be completely offended by this audio clip. That's one of the reasons I'm being so gracious in this thread.

(btw, good posting Calvary!)

[JerryNumbers]

Its not about hate, its about truth. One thing I don't like is someone to accuse some one of hate when that person is pointing out false teaching and they're contending for the faith. We are to contend for the faith, we are to point out false teaching, because someone does that does not mean they hate that person, although I'm sure they hate the persons teachings when it is clearly false teachings. I surely know I do.

Samer, thanks for posting that about Mr. Ruckman and pointing it out. No doubt, that man led many astray from God's truths.

[Guest Guest]

Its not about hate, its about truth. One thing I don't like is someone to accuse some one of hate when that person is pointing out false teaching and they're contending for the faith. We are to contend for the faith, we are to point out false teaching, because someone does that does not mean they hate that person, although I'm sure they hate the persons teachings when it is clearly false teachings. I surely know I do.

Samer, thanks for posting that about Mr. Ruckman and pointing it out. No doubt, that man led many astray from God's truths.

I didn't accuse Samer's post of being hateful, or any of the other civil posts from members that discussed this issue without being malicious.

I only had an issue with those who post with such hatred toward Dr. Ruckman. You can just see the high blood pressure surging in those posts. I think everyone knows which posts I'm talking about. I'm trying to keep from getting too personal here on this thread, so I'm not going to mention names if I can help it.

[heartstrings]

Its not about hate, its about truth. One thing I don't like is someone to accuse some one of hate when that person is pointing out false teaching and they're contending for the faith. We are to contend for the faith, we are to point out false teaching, because someone does that does not mean they hate that person, although I'm sure they hate the persons teachings when it is clearly false teachings. I surely know I do.

Samer, thanks for posting that about Mr. Ruckman and pointing it out. No doubt, that man led many astray from God's truths.

Amen, Good post.

Calvary......Emotions??.....
True emotions come from the HEART, sir. The Bible says Jesus drove out the moneychangers...He was ANGRY. The Bible says He is ANGRY with the wicked EVERY DAY. The Bible says that Jesus wept, sir. The Bible says He was MOVED with compassion.

Why has America slaughtered millions of unborn babies and why do many see nothing wrong with it? Why does it not MOVE us? If more Americans had stood up and expressed their hatred and disgust for the VILE UNGODLY wicked practice of slaughering innocent, unborn babies, "Roe vs Wade" would have never happened. So why are we even debating this?

Cold Hearts
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

I tell you the truth, sir, it does a body good to just have a good CRY coming from the depths of your SOUL once in a while.

[Guest Guest]

Emotions come from the heart, yes, but "the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked" (Jeremiah 17:9)

I told my husband about this thread. He ranted a little in his blog...hehe. (I posted a blog today, too... but my reaction was much different. I'm more disgusted by the attitudes in this thread than anything else.)

I just thought I'd tell you, so you don't find it and think we were just gossiping on our blogs. That was not the intention of it at all. It was just a more proper place for a rant than on this thread.

[JerryNumbers]

I didn't accuse Samer's post of being hateful, or any of the other civil posts from members that discussed this issue without being malicious.

I only had an issue with those who post with such hatred toward Dr. Ruckman. You can just see the high blood pressure surging in those posts. I think everyone knows which posts I'm talking about. I'm trying to keep from getting too personal here on this thread, so I'm not going to mention names if I can help it.

I think the problem is your reading into and not reading what they say. Be careful what you assume is someone else's thoughts.

Although one person under this topic did get hateful, but it was not on the side that is pointing out Dr. Ruckman false teachings.

[Samer]

Emotions come from the heart, yes, but "the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked" (Jeremiah 17:9)

I told my husband about this thread. He ranted a little in his blog...hehe. (I posted a blog today, too... but my reaction was much different. I'm more disgusted by the attitudes in this thread than anything else.)

I just thought I'd tell you, so you don't find it and think we were just gossiping on our blogs. That was not the intention of it at all. It was just a more proper place for a rant than on this thread.

Your husband's blog post was quite rude and vile. Talk about hate?