Abortion as viewed by Peter Ruckman

[trc123]

I don't see how any born-again Christian could defend him after hearing that!

[Calvary]

[quote="Samer"][quote]?I teach that a baby is not a living soul until it breathes. I?m considered a great heretic for teaching that, but then again if a man goes by the King James Bible he?s bound to be a heretic these days. And so I don?t teach that abortion is murder like the brethren do. ... Some of the brethren get to harping on these things. They say, ?Abortion is murder; abortion is murder.? They show you pictures. They are trying to prove that the thing looks like a person and therefore it is a person. That?s what Darwin taught. You gotta watch that business. You can take an embryo of an animal and prove that it looks like an embryo of a person. That doesn?t make it a person. ... Now I?ll grant you that the child is an organism. I?ll grant you that it may be alive and have animal life. But if you are talking about a living soul, I read my Bible and there is no living soul there until the Lord breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. If you ever start teaching the other, you are going to have some real problems. When all of those Indians and Hindus came into Bangladesh and Pakistan and raped about 2,000 women and left them with about 800 illegitimate children, the good Catholic nuns in order to increase the membership in the church decided it would be a terrible sin to have any abortions. So they taught that it was the will of God for 800 women who were abused against their will to bear children for the Roman Catholic Church. I don?t believe it."[/quote]
(From a Peter Ruckman sermon at [url]http://sites.google.com/site/ruckmantruth/Home/ruckman.mp3[/url].)

[size=150]So Ruckman believes abortion is a-ok. My unborn baby and I strongly disagree with that.[/size]
"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them! If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee." -Psalms 139:13-18[/quote]


Dr Ruckman never said that. That's your own conclusion. In fact his commentary on Genesis states clearly that abortion is a terrible thing, a tragic loss, but his stand is that life doesn't begin until you take a breath.

[JerryNumbers]

Amazing, so many people have so much trouble believing what Peter Ruckman truly teaches.

[Annie]

[quote] [b]Dr Ruckman never said that. That's your own conclusion.[/b] In fact his commentary on Genesis states clearly that abortion is a terrible thing, a tragic loss, but his stand is that life doesn't begin until you take a breath.[/quote]
Let's be reasonable here...
Unborn babies have yet to "take a breath." Given this fact, a reasonable person would therefore surmise that Peter Ruckman condones abortion.

Trouble is, Peter Ruckman is not a reasonable person; neither is he honest. He speaks out of both sides of his mouth (assuming the quoted material is accurate). Here is his position: Abortion is a terrible thing, a tragic loss. But, since personhood begins at birth (first breath of air), abortion is not condemned by Scripture. What, then, makes abortion a terrible thing or a tragic loss? You can't have it both ways, Mr. Ruckman.

[lettheredeemedsayso]

I don't know if I would agree with Ruckman on this. Adam and Eve were formed from the dust of the earth and not in the womb. In Leviticus 17:11 it says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Just like we cannot be born into the family of Jesus Christ without blood; It is the blood that causes that little heart to beat and the body to function. I believe that it is the Lord that causes conception.

[Pastor Matt]

Not surprising to me. When I have time I will have to check the sermon completely.




[i]On a side note, let's keep this topic on the subject of Mr. Ruckman and abortion and let's not have this thread go off on Ruckman in general[/i]

[deafnva77]

Planned parenthood would love to have him to counsel women.
actually I heard "a child is not a living soul until he had first breath of life" before , but from other preachers who don't see abortion as murder. They try to tell women who went through it or going to go through it that it is ok . Most of the time, it works :(

look like Ruckman is judging from the surface (the embryo part) .

[John81]

From the Pulpit: Pastor says abortion is murder
By JOHN FRAZIER
Article Launched: 10/24/2008 09:10:07 PM PDT


OK. What is it? That thing that is on the inside of a pregnant woman? Is it a thing or is it a baby?
One of the major issues in the United States of America is the issue of legalized abortion. This is one of the most disconcerting dilemmas in the country. Supposedly there are men and women of faith that do not know where they stand on the issue of abortion.

Webster's Dictionary defines abortion as follows; "The act of miscarrying, or producing young before the natural time, or before the fetus is at a viable stage."

This pastor at one time truly did not know what he believed concerning the subject of abortion. My mother had 12 children and this pastor is the oldest of the clan. It is safe to say that our mother and father did not believe in abortion but this preacher does not remember any family discussions about the subject.

There was a short period of time when I was wondering about the subject, and I began to search the Bible for an answer. Please, read chapter one of The Gospel of Luke. You will read about the godly man and woman. They became the father and mother of John the Baptist. The name of John's father was Zechariah, his mother was Elisabeth. Elisabeth became pregnant. That was miraculous. Luke 1:36 " ... behold, they cousin Elisabeth, she hath conceived a son in her old age ..."; verse 41, "... The babe leaped in her womb." The fetus had to be a person to hear that announcement. That convinced this preacher that an unborn fetus is a person, and that

makes abortion become murder.
Lady, if you have an abortion, you are guilty of murdering your child. You were deceived into thinking that that thing inside of you was just "a fetus." That fetus was your unborn daughter or son.

Much of the United States of America has been swooned by brilliant godless scholars. They have put you under a spell. They have hypnotized you into believing that murder of unborn babies in a civilized society is acceptable and even preferable, because it can help keep the population smaller and more manageable. These people are guilty of premeditated murder.

How on earth can a mother murder her own baby? She can do it because she has been deceived by this Godless evil society into believing that it is not a baby but "a fetus."

The only long-range hope for us is that God Almighty sends some very powerful people to Oroville to help us change Oroville from "The City of Gold" into "The City of God."

http://www.orovillemr.com/ci_10810822?source=rss

[Anon]

I agree, the Bible says the life of the flesh is in the blood...and babies have blood VERY early....before a woman even knows she is with child, the baby has blood. And Psalms 139 has alot to say about the unborn as well.

Unfortunately people like what Ruckman believes about this or that and they are sucked into believing everything he says is true...the devil himself works like that. In Genesis, the Devil gave a partial truth and therefore Adam and Eve believed the lie. We recognize lies for what they are...but mix them with truth, and we can be deceived.

This is how Ruckman works.

[Calvary]

My interest is not whether Dr Ruckman recieves fair treatment or not, nor is to defend him. I simply have a hard time with distortion tactics. I believe it is one of the worst forms of slander.

After having listened top the entire "sound byte", I did not come away from it believing that Dr Ruckman promotes abortion as the OP said. But starting in the middle of a conversation is always a tactic of lible and slander, or at best out of context information.

Sadly, the text written in the OP was also only used to further a scandoulous image and was not the full text of the mp3 linked text. I've noted this style of journalism on David Cloud's site several times ove rthe years.

Dr Ruckman later went on to say, Don't you go out of here saying Ruckman says it's alright to kill babies, don't you do that, I didn't say that. What I said was that life doesn't start until that breath is taken, and if you stick by the book you can't commit murder where there is no life. Ruckman this, Ruckman that, some of you have Ruckmanitis...

[Samer]

Leviticus 17:11 says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Well, enough said.

If a woman has a miscarriage that baby goes to Heaven. Every Christian woman knows that...it's how God provides peace to that dear woman after something so tragic happens to her. My little Benjamin is alive and a living soul. I tell him about Jesus and sing to him and pray for him. I KNOW he's a living and breathing SOUL.

The more I read and hear what Ruckman says from his own mouth, the more troubled I am by this man. I believe that he has a mental problem and possibly a spiritual one. I don't mean to offend any one here, but the stuff he is teaching is WRONG, and is to be rejected if you truly hold to the King James Bible as your final authority.

edit: this was Rachel posting, not Samer.

[Anon]

Read in the OT what the penalty was for a man who hurt a woman and caused a miscarriage...it was pretty much a murder penalty.


[quote]r Ruckman later went on to say, Don't you go out of here saying Ruckman says it's alright to kill babies, don't you do that, I didn't say that. What I said was that life doesn't start until that breath is taken, and if you stick by the book you can't commit murder where there is no life. Ruckman this, Ruckman that, some of you have Ruckmanitis...[/quote]

You can't commit murder where there is no life?!?!?!?!

That is dangerous, dangerous thinking. This is a dangerous, dangerous man. He makes me sick.

[deafnva77]

I agree... many prochoice preacher have taught the same thing.

in fact, I think Ruckman got this type of teaching from a prochoice website or something.

[Bakershalfdozen]

[quote="Calvary"]
Dr Ruckman later went on to say, Don't you go out of here saying Ruckman says it's alright to kill babies, don't you do that, I didn't say that. What I said was that life doesn't start until that breath is taken, and if you stick by the book you can't commit murder where there is no life. [/quote]


Do you agree with this? If so, do you have Biblical proof to back up such a belief? If this belief is not Biblical, it is fitting that people be warned against this false teacher.

[Samer]

Ruckman said unborn babies may be "organisms" and have "animal life." He also gave an example of rape in which he said the women should have abortions. One doesn't need too much context to reject something like that.

As far as Leviticus 17:11, Ruckman believes Adam and Eve did not have blood until they sinned. He thinks they had water in their veins, and that the fruit they took when they sinned was a grape, which turned their water into blood (and also that Eve had physical relations with the serpent and bore Cain).

*shrugs* Heresy is heresy.