The "sons Of God" In Genesis 6:2 & 4 Are Angelic Beings?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

One thing is for sure, the sons of God are not humans. The Holy Spirit pointed out that "they" had sexual intercourse with the "daughters of men (adam)", and they produced "abnormal" offspring.The Holy Spirit put many "clues" in scripture without excessive explanations, but it is up to the reader to recognize what is being conveyed.

abnormal children are born every day to human parents.

Your argument does not hold under the light of facts.

[heartstrings]

What I have seen here is a "reply in kind" format in his posts.

 

When dealt with in a thoughtful, civil manner he has responded similarly though he disagreed with the respondent. Case in point, Scott Markle.

When dealt with in a caustic or snide manner, he has responded more sharply. Case in point, Standing Firm.

The following are some of the comments directed at me and I don't see how they could be a "reply in kind" because I have used no such comments in my posts on this thread.

 

"That is just plain ignorance on Bible doctrine.........."

"That is simple nonsense........"

That is wherein lies you inability to understand deductive Bible study..........

How can you reconcile your false teaching.......

That is a false doctrine.......

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The following are some of the comments directed at me and I don't see how they could be a "reply in kind" because I have used no such comments in my posts on this thread.
 
"That is just plain ignorance on Bible doctrine.........."
"That is simple nonsense........"
That is wherein lies you inability to understand deductive Bible study..........
How can you reconcile your false teaching.......
That is a false doctrine.......

isn't it ironic that we are accused of making demeaning comments by one who is making demeaning comments toward us?

[beameup]

abnormal children are born every day to human parents.

Your argument does not hold under the light of facts.

20 feet tall is "normal"? By the time the next wave of "sons of God" went to Canaan the size of Og and Goliath was a bit shorter (due to degradation of human DNA no doubt). These were Devil created freaks by any standard.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Just where does the Bible say that giants were twenty feet tall? Chapter and verse please?

[heartstrings]

I have repeatedly asked for a identification of the sons of God in Job 38 and only have been responded to by snide and demeaning innuendos by Standing.

 

To date, neither yourself, neither Uke Mike and neither heartstrings have proffered any clear biblical response.

 

Job 38, states that the sons of God shouted for joy WHEN  (not because, or not due to the.. but WHEN [vs.4] God created. My question, again is, How could men be at the creation of the earth when Adam was not yet created? What sons of God exactly were there? Since there is only 5 classes of sons of God, no... wait.... I´ll concede for the moment only the 4 you have found, of the 4, which class of sons of God were present in Job 38?

Was it Adam? If it was, prove it.

Was it Israel? If it was, prove it.

Was it Jesus? If it was prove it.

Was it born again believers? If it was, prove it.

 

All sons of God are a direct creation of God. There is no other way to become one.

 

God bless,

calvary

No, Brother Calvary, Job 38 says they shouted for joy when someone laid "the cornerstone thereof": it doesn't say 'creation'.

God is asking Job "where wast thou?" and He is asking Job "WHO laid the cornerstone?"

I am not going to post an answer to the question because I really don't know. it would be theory. But Job 38 doesn't call them angels. I can answer that for sure.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I just read that the uninspired Apocryphal books claim the giants were 450 feet tall.

LOL

No wonder they were tyrannical bullies. ROFL.

[Calvary]

No, Brother Calvary, Job 38 says they shouted for joy when someone laid "the cornerstone thereof": it doesn't say 'creation'.

God is asking Job "where wast thou?" and He is asking Job "WHO laid the cornerstone?"

I am not going to post an answer to the question because I really don't know. it would be theory. But Job 38 doesn't call them angels. I can answer that for sure.

Job 38:4  Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5  Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6  Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7  When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

Earths foundation... when..... the question is rhetorical. The obvious answer is NO MAN was there, including Job.

 

When the sons of God shouted for joy, is at the time when the foundations of the earth were laid.

 

That is the context. You nor I have any understanding, but since the Bible is not silent on the term sons of God for us, I ask again, who were they.

 

Were they

1. Adam?

2. Israel?

3. Jesus?

4. Born again believer?

 

 

I understand your inability and unwillingness to answer with anything conclusive on your part, it would lead you to face the "false doctrine", the "nonsense", the "inability to understand deductive bible study", the impossible task of "reconciling false doctrine" with New Testament stated facts of the new birth. No one has been caustic to you, but some one has decided to hold your feet to the fire and exact an answer on this simple question. To date, I have not had one. To say it is one of the 4, you will be found to have more questions then any answer. You both know that, that is why you have as yet refused to chose one of the only choices available.

 

Though Pastor Scott does not agree with my findings, he did graciously concede that they could not have been of the other 4 classes.

I can respect that.

 

 

What I lack respect for is a man who will refuse to answer simple questions.

 

God bless,

calvcary

[Pastor Scott Markle]

Where does the Bible specifically identify angels as being sons of God?

To date, no one has addressed this question.

 

Brother "Standing Firm In Christ,"

 

As I have presented ealier in this thread discussion, and as I believe that both you and Brother Mitchell ("Calvary") are aware, I do not believe that the phrase "sons of God" refers to angelic beings in Genesis 6:2 & 4.  However, as I have also presented earlier in this thread discussion, and as I believe that both of you are also aware, I do believe that the phrase "sons of God" does refer to angelic beings in the three Job references.  (Note: That probably means that both of you should separate from me as a compromiser.)

 

As such, I wish to answer your question quite directly.  Then I wish to ask you a series of questions concerning Job 38:7 and its context.  First, concerning your above question -- There is no place anywhere in God's Holy Word wherein "sons of God" are specifically and directly identified as angels. 

 

Now, concerning Job 38:7 and its context -- "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?  Declare, if thou hast understanding.  Who hath laid the measures thereof [of the earth], if thou knowest?  Or who hath stretched the line upon it [upon the earth]?  Whereupon are the foundations thereof [of the earth] fastened?  Or who laid the corner stone thereof [of the earth]; when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4-7)

 

1.  Would you agree that in all of these verses, the Lord our God is asking questions concerning that time when He "laid the foundations of the earth," when He "laid the corner stone" of the earth?

 

2.  Would you agree that these verses provide a poetic desciptive of our Lord God's creation-work as revealed in Genesis 1:1-10?

 

3.  Would you agree that the relative adverb "when" with which verse 7 begins reveals that the events described in this verse occured at the very time when the Lord our God "laid the corner stone" of the earth?

 

4.  Would you agree that the the Lord our God had not yet created mankind at the time when He "laid the corner stone" of the earth?

 

5.  If you would agree to these questions, would you then agree that the phrases "morning stars" and "sons of God" cannot contextually be references to human beings?

 

6.  If you would agree that these phrases cannot contextually be references to human beings, then in accord with the teaching of the entire Scriptures, to whom could these phrases refer?

 

 

Just saying, "See, it says sons of God... It is speaking of angels." Does not prove they are angels anymore than saying, "See it says light,... It is speaking of General Electric." Proves light bulbs were in the Bible.

 

Brother, this appears to me to be a somewhat sarcastic remark.  As such, you received sarcasm in response (the rendering of sarcasm for sarcasm).  Even so, the sarcasm began to flow within the discussion; and as the sarcasm flowed more freely, the tension within the discussion grew more intensely.  I myself would request that the sarcastic remarks be set aside, in order that the tension might be relieved and in order that grace might return.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

You have not answered out simple question.

That being, Where does the Bible say the sons of God were angels?

[beameup]

Just where does the Bible say that giants were twenty feet tall? Chapter and verse please?

I'm not going to play your game anymore. Obviously you simply don't want to look at the evidence in the Bible for GIANTS (like in Deut. 3:11, for instance).

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Brother "Standing Firm In Christ,"

 

As I have presented ealier in this thread discussion, and as I believe that both you and Brother Mitchell ("Calvary") are aware, I do not believe that the phrase "sons of God" refers to angelic beings in Genesis 6:2 & 4.  However, as I have also presented earlier in this thread discussion, and as I believe that both of you are also aware, I do believe that the phrase "sons of God" does refer to angelic beings in the three Job references.  (Note: That probably means that both of you should separate from me as a compromiser.)

 

As such, I wish to answer your question quite directly.  Then I wish to ask you a series of questions concerning Job 38:7 and its context.  First, concerning your above question -- There is no place anywhere in God's Holy Word wherein "sons of God" are specifically and directly identified as angels. 

 

Now, concerning Job 38:7 and its context -- "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?  Declare, if thou hast understanding.  Who hath laid the measures thereof [of the earth], if thou knowest?  Or who hath stretched the line upon it [upon the earth]?  Whereupon are the foundations thereof [of the earth] fastened?  Or who laid the corner stone thereof [of the earth]; when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4-7)

 

1.  Would you agree that in all of these verses, the Lord our God is asking questions concerning that time when He "laid the foundations of the earth," when He "laid the corner stone" of the earth?

 

2.  Would you agree that these verses provide a poetic desciptive of our Lord God's creation-work as revealed in Genesis 1:1-10?

 

3.  Would you agree that the relative adverb "when" with which verse 7 begins reveals that the events described in this verse occured at the very time when the Lord our God "laid the corner stone" of the earth?

 

4.  Would you agree that the the Lord our God had not yet created mankind at the time when He "laid the corner stone" of the earth?

 

5.  If you would agree to these questions, would you then agree that the phrases "morning stars" and "sons of God" cannot contextually be references to human beings?

 

6.  If you would agree that these phrases cannot contextually be references to human beings, then in accord with the teaching of the entire Scriptures, to whom could these phrases refer?

 

 

 

Brother, this appears to me to be a somewhat sarcastic remark.  As such, you received sarcasm in response (the rendering of sarcasm for sarcasm).  Even so, the sarcasm began to flow within the discussion; and as the sarcasm flowed more freely, the tension within the discussion grew more intensely.  I myself would request that the sarcastic remarks be set aside, in order that the tension might be relieved and in order that grace might return.

Pastor Markle,

I agree with points 1-5 of your questions.  Yet, I would contend, as Heartstrings has posted, that the first 2 chapters of Job could be speaking of humans.

As to the 38th Chapter of Job, we are not told what, or who the sons of God are.  To say they are angels is pure speculation   God doesn't identify sons of God as angels anywhere in the Bible (as you admitted to at the beginning of your post)  What were they if not angels?  Again, we can only speculate.  But Scripture reveals there were more than angels in heaven.

As to the General Electric light bulb remark, I was not trying to be sarcastic.  I was trying to make a point.  It is foolish to build a doctrine on a word or phrase in the Bible, saying it is referring to so-and-so, when the Bible is silent as to what it is referring to.

We are told in the Word of God not to add to the Word of God in three different places.  Yet, it seems we have no problem adding to the Word where the Word is silent and we have our own theories.

On another post, i questioned what the world would be like if the serpent had not tempted Eve with an apple.  Of course, we do not know what kind of fruit it was, but I used the word "apple" in my post to prove that people will add their own imaginative ideas to the Word of God and formulate a doctrine that may, or may not be, absolutely true.

The Word of God instructs us to avoid unlearned and foolish questions for a reason.  I believe when the Bible is silent, we should also remain silent.  When the Bible speaks, we should reflect what the Bible says.

If Genesis 6 is indeed speaking of the Nephilim being the result of humans cohabitating, (which I believe they were and I know you do too) then we should not say they are angels. The fact that "men of renown:" were born to the husband/wife teams, it is obvious that "men" were the fathers of those "men of renown.

 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Deuteronomy 3:11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

Sorry Beammeup, but it appears that it is you who is "playing games."

Deuteronomy 3 gives the measurement of Og's bed as being 13.5 foot long and 6 feet wide. 

A far cry from 20 feet. 

You have no proof whatsoever that the Nephilim prior to the flood were 20 feet tall.  You argue from silence.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Question:

If indeed God called angels His sons (as some contend) in the Old Testament, why does He not call them sons in the New Testament?


Hebrews 1:5 (KJV) 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 1:6 (KJV) 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Hebrews 1:7 (KJV) 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

[DaveW]

To return right to beginning....


Genesis 6

 1  And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

 2  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

 3  And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

 4  There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


To begin with, verse 2 makes it plain that marriage was involved, not only sexual relations.
secondly, while giants are mentioned, the phrase 'and also after that' separates the giants from the event of daughters of men - sons of God.
thirdly, the result of these unions were children who became mighty men, men of renown.

There is actually nothing in the passage that indicates that the resultant offspring were anything more than famous fighting men, and they were not born mighty men but became mighty men.

The only reason there is any contention in this passage is the use of the phrase 'Sons of God' and that only because it is contrasted with 'daughters of men'.

Now even if a particular phrase is used in a particular sense, that does not mean it necessarily must conform to that in every case.
The context of the usage also helps in that determination.

I see no need to read this as angels, and personally I feel that the more obvious reading is that these were men, but I don't think we actually have enough information to be solid about it.