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John81

Pastor Charged With Felony For Spanking Son

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To clarrify my post, I have nothing against spaking, though I will use it as a very last resort with my child. I do think if there are other ways to effectively discipline, those methods should be used first, but spaking as a last resort.

It should be up to the parent about how to discipline their child.

However, no parent should ever hit a child hard enough to leave a bruise. If I saw a childed that had bruses that looked like they were caused from hitting or spaking, I would call the authorities immediately.

Just saying someone spanked their child is not enough. So what is? Well, if I saw a child walking slowly, sitting slowly, acting like he was sore when he sat down, etc. I would certainly ask the child what the problem was. If he said his parents spanked him, I'd ask when and if it still hurt. If it still hurt, and I'd ask him if there were bruises there.

If a parent leaves a bruise, that is not right. I've seen some horrible photos of children who had black and blue behinds from "spanking." That is abuse, I don't care how to phrase it.

Like I said, I don't know all the facts about this situation, but if there were bruises, then an investigation is appropriate.

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I want to say too, that some children bruise easier than others. If you are talking a very small bruise, I think that's different than what you are describing, their whole butt being black and blue. And it certainly should never be on the back. God made the behind to be full of nice padding so nothing is injured.

I am totally saying that a bruise should NOT be common, if ever...but there are times, with a stubborn child, they may get a very small bruise, every once in awhile, especially if fair skinned.

That is not abuse.

Constant bruising, or large bruises, would yes, be abuse.

You have to remember too that parents who discipline their children in love with a spanking are much less abusive than a parent who never touches their child, yet screams and yells and cusses at them day in and day out. Why can't we through those kinds of parents in jail? Kids are suicidal all the time...possibly from severe emotional abuse? That's worse than any occasional rear end bruise.

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15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to

Prov 29:15 (KJV)

3 A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.

Prov 26:3 (KJV)

14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Prov 23:14 (KJV)

13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

Prov 23:13 (KJV)

15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Prov 22:15 (KJV)

24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Prov 13:24 (KJV)

13 In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.

Prov 10:13 (KJV)

God is pretty clear on it. Like its been said, some children are very strong willed and to stop them from doing wrong, that which is harmful, it take more than a pat, some time its take enough to bruise their behind. If you let the child win, them that child is more than likely lost.

And no, a bruise being present does not mean an investigation is needed. Some people have never dealt with a very strong willed child that believe this, if they have, they lost.

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15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to

Prov 29:15 (KJV)

3 A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.

Prov 26:3 (KJV)

14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Prov 23:14 (KJV)

13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

Prov 23:13 (KJV)

15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Prov 22:15 (KJV)

24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Prov 13:24 (KJV)

13 In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.

Prov 10:13 (KJV)

God is pretty clear on it. Like its been said, some children are very strong willed and to stop them from doing wrong, that which is harmful, it take more than a pat, some time its take enough to bruise their behind. If you let the child win, them that child is more than likely lost.

And no, a bruise being present does not mean an investigation is needed. Some people have never dealt with a very strong willed child that believe this, if they have, they lost.



:goodpost: I was just fixin' to put some Scripture up for this and I'm thankful you did the work for me :Green

Too many people don't take the Word of God seriously.

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Right on, I'm not saying parents ought to burse their children when whipping them, but sometimes it does happen. Its better to burse them than lose them because parents will not correct their children.

There is a woman who works with my wife, she has no control over her teenage daughter, the reason being, never corrected.

Some people think the young child who is wild an uncorrected is cute, but when they get a little older they're not so cute. I've seen several who were not so cute.

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You have to remember too that parents who discipline their children in love with a spanking are much less abusive than a parent who never touches their child' date=' yet screams and yells and cusses at them day in and day out. Why can't we through those kinds of parents in jail? Kids are suicidal all the time...possibly from severe emotional abuse? That's worse than any occasional rear end bruise.[/quote']

I completely agree. I was just saying I don't know all of the facts about this case, so cannot come to a conclusion. I expect that there was some very significant bruising or this guy would not have faced felony charges. IF that is not the case, this prosecutor needs to be thrown out of office.

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You have to remember too that parents who discipline their children in love with a spanking are much less abusive than a parent who never touches their child' date=' yet screams and yells and cusses at them day in and day out. Why can't we through those kinds of parents in jail? Kids are suicidal all the time...possibly from severe emotional abuse? That's worse than any occasional rear end bruise.[/quote']

I completely agree. I was just saying I don't know all of the facts about this case, so cannot come to a conclusion. I expect that there was some very significant bruising or this guy would not have faced felony charges. If that is not the case, this prosecutor needs to be thrown out of office.

I still stand by my position that bruising should NEVER be acceptable. I'm not saying that a small bruise once warrants an investigation, but if it happens once, that should clue a parent in that they are spanking too hard. If a child does not respond to a spanking that hard, perhaps that parent needs to find another form of discipline that is more effective.

As far as the argument goes that a child is better off by beating him so hard he bruises if he is strong willed makes no sense. Would he be better off if locked in a closet for three days? If a spanking so hard he bruises does not work, what about a whip? Come on now. That is taking it too far. If a child is that strong willed and does not respond to a spanking hard enough to leave a bruise, then perhaps the parent needs to find another form of discipline that is more effective for that child.

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Let's face it...correction of a child starts when that child is in diapers. End of story!

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Let's face it...correction of a child starts when that child is in diapers. End of story!


True, but lets face all the facts.

One fact is, you can't start making them mind when they become teenagers. Just as one needs to teach the child about God from the time they're a baby and be sure they set the right example.

But some children will be led by other teenagers who happen to be their running mates, when this takes place it may take stiffer punishment to get them back in line.

And its a fact, the way of the world is not to punish children for fear of killing their self esteem, that is a lie, just pat them on the back of the hand for punishment and say that is wrong, please do things this way, with most children that will not work.

Also, each child and not be dealt with the same. All children are different, even in the same family. For instants, in one family they may have 2 boys, the parents may well keep one boy in line and never have to whip them, but in order to get the other boy in line you may have to give him a very harsh spanking to get his attention and get him back in line.

One problem now days is that to many people think they know what the parents of other children should do and they do not have inside information and our government thinks they can do better than the parents but yet when an underage child gets in trouble the 1st thing they do is blame the parents they tell not to whip their children.

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And its a fact' date=' the way of the world is not to punish children for fear of killing their self esteem,[/quote']


Which the world doesn't understand---that it is better to do that than...have the child killed. **seriously**

The one thing that I have made a habit of (and my son's dad, too) is getting to know the parents of our son's friends. "Strength in numbers"...you know? We have our own "Parent Mafia" going on---and the teens know it. :thumb

The second time our son was in trouble this year (for breaking curfew) his dad was out of town. Of course. LOL. Our son changed friends on me for a "split second"...actually, on his uncle---who was on watch that night (but, he is NOT responsible for our child.) Boy...did I make it a point to get to know the parents in that crowd. The "baseball team." Now...it is the "golf team" and then it will be the "basketball team." Goodness...it can be hard to keep up. With one it is much easier, though.

Parents need to "stay awake at the switch" so to speak. It is a shame when the government tries to get involved where they don't belong. :roll Were they there at the time of conception and at the time of birth? *sarcasm* Nope! It is the parent's responsibility to raise their children as they see fit.

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The problem we seemed to have when our daughter was growing up one of her best friends came from a broken home where the mother was a run around mother, going to night clubs, from Friday evening till Sunday afternoon she would be out doing her thing, letting her 2 daughters run wild of which one of her daughters was the same age as mine..

It was so hard to make Jerri Lynn understand she could not run wild with from Friday evening till Sunday afternoon, she just did not understand the danger.

It would be so nice if we could pick our children's best friends, that could take much bad influence out of their early years. Good children running with wild children will quickly go astray and it can lead to the parents losing all control.

When I was a teenager there was one friend, when I would get in trouble I was always with him, when I would stay away from him trouble seemed to stay away from me. Sad to say, trouble still follows him around at 61 years of age.

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I don't understand these parents who run around "with their hair on fire" so to speak when they have children to raise. I have seen couples as well as single parents do this. How much energy do these people have?

When I was a single mom the last thing I wanted was some man complicating my life. I had my son and my job. Being a mom and working was my life. :smile

Anymore...Wednesday night and Sunday night services at church are late enough for my hubby and I. LOL. We love to be home in our cozy house when the sun goes down. :fall:

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one thing I made a rule is that I would never allow my kids to spend the night with people. that's when kids start coming up with wild ideas and boys, and such.... even start smoking. Alot of people disagree with me on this, but I had my experience on spending the night with my friends and family so many times. It is also when the parent of that friend start telling you ungodly things.

They can still have fun and play anytime.. just not spend the night

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Kindofblue, A bruise does not mean the parent spanked too hard... not at all. some kids just bruise easy... and frankly, everyone loves the 'spank as last resort' comments... I say that's foolish. There is one, very simple, very effective, very fast punishment that is condoned in scripture repeatedly (thanks Jerry#s for the verses). Its not timeout, and its not grounding. A very real tangible punishment shows cause and effect. Its also short lived, and you can turn around and get on with living a loving life together. I spank my child all the time. Its fast, its effective, it registers that she did wrong, and within a minute, we have hugged, kissed, repented and moved on to playing delightfully. It works, and scripture made it clear that avoiding it is both foolish from the parents POV and harmful to the child.

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Kindofblue' date=' A bruise does not mean the parent spanked too hard... not at all. some kids just bruise easy... and frankly, everyone loves the 'spank as last resort' comments... I say that's foolish. There is one, very simple, very effective, very fast punishment that is condoned in scripture repeatedly (thanks Jerry#s for the verses). Its not timeout, and its not grounding. A very real tangible punishment shows cause and effect. Its also short lived, and you can turn around and get on with living a loving life together. I spank my child all the time. Its fast, its effective, it registers that she did wrong, and within a minute, we have hugged, kissed, repented and moved on to playing delightfully. It works, and scripture made it clear that avoiding it is both foolish from the parents POV and harmful to the child.[/quote']

It really depends on the child. I stand by my position that if your child bruises often when you spank the child, the spaking is too hard. If a child's behind is black and blue, then an investigation for abuse is warranted.

Spaking has a place, but with some children it does not work. For some children, taking away a privilege is what works. For others, "thinking time: or "time out" is most effective. For others, the thread of a spanking is all that is needed. The Scriptural principal to be followed is to consistently discipline your child. It does not matter if that is spaking, time out, grounding, etc. You know what works for your child, so do it consistantly. For example, with me, my parents rarely spanked me. They just did not phase me, so they moved on to taking away privileges, or giving me extra chores. That worked for me. With my brother, he did not mind extra chores or things taken away. He got more frequent spankings. We both turned out well.

For some people, perhaps spaking does not work for the strong willed child. Perhaps another form of discipline will be more effective. That is what needs to be used.

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Kindofblue' date=' A bruise does not mean the parent spanked too hard... not at all. some kids just bruise easy... and frankly, everyone loves the 'spank as last resort' comments... I say that's foolish. There is one, very simple, very effective, very fast punishment that is condoned in scripture repeatedly (thanks Jerry#s for the verses). Its not timeout, and its not grounding. A very real tangible punishment shows cause and effect. Its also short lived, and you can turn around and get on with living a loving life together. I spank my child all the time. Its fast, its effective, it registers that she did wrong, and within a minute, we have hugged, kissed, repented and moved on to playing delightfully. It works, and scripture made it clear that avoiding it is both foolish from the parents POV and harmful to the child.[/quote']

True, and if you get that in early on and they have an understanding of it, you do not have to use the spanking much later on, that comes from my experience of raising a daughter.

I must say, I observed others, early on they would say what they would do, what they would take away from them, tell them about the spanking they would get, and they kept saying this over and over, guess what, they lost all control for the children knew dad & mom would forget about it.

Take care of it at the time, them parents nor child will forget, and the child will learn this and parents will have control and never lose control and the child will know what will come to pass if they do not mind their parents.

Children need to fear their parents, not think of them as their best friends, to many try to be their children's best friend, that will not work, besides that is not what God teaches us. And if you veer off of God's way, your completely wrong.

There are many things I never did when growing up, and only for one reason, fear, fear of what would happened when father and mother found out, without that fear no telling what I would have. To many parents thinks their children are above being that way, so they don't use God's method.

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Dr.Sears says that the rod is used for guiding sheeps.


I don't recall reading nothing that a Dr. Sears wrote in the Bible. What does he have to do with the life of a Child of God, I would think God would know much more about this topic than a mere Dr. Sears.

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I don't recall reading nothing that a Dr. Sears wrote in the Bible. What does he have to do with the life of a Child of God, I would think God would know much more about this topic than a mere Dr. Sears.


I agree, but he did say that in his website. I'll send a link, but alot of people follow his advices.

edited: seem his site is down. If it come back up, you can search up spanking. askdrsears.com

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I don't dispute any of the Scriptures you have cited. But to take them 100% literally is not right. Proverbs is a book of wisdom, and there are underlying principals that the author is trying to convey. We are not to literally use a rod on our children. I need to research this a bit, but I imagine that my results will be that the rod was used in some sort of way to train livestock. The author is not saying we should train our children like livestock. Rather, the principal is that we need to use steady and constant discipline in a gentle, loving way to rear our children. Just like a horse trainer today would break a horse. You don't beat a horse silly to get him to comply. You use steady, firm, but gentle methods to discipline and train him. The same goes for children. I don't see anywhere where it says spanking is the only form of discipline. The form is not important. The important thing is that we use discipline in a steady, consistant and firm way to train our children in the way they should go.

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So do you believe that taking a rebellious child outside in the OT was also figurative language?

Not saying we do that today obviously, we are in the age of grace....but I'm saying that you can't just explain away things you don't like in Scripture by saying its figurative.

I don't like spanking my kids, and we don't use that for everything...but it is definitely the Biblical way and so we do have to follow the Bible. I find it generally more effective than "time out".

Anyway...what does one do when a child refuses to sit in a time out? LOL....

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