Jump to content
Online Baptist

In Milestone, Gay Marriage Prevails At Supreme Court


Recommended Posts

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Are any of us really surprised by this, especially after the ruling on Obamacare? They lost all credibiity at that point.

No surprise at all. Acceptance of one evil leads to acceptance of another. Acceptance of evil in a certain way leads to full acceptance of that evil. From the time homosexuals were allowed to "come out of the closet", with anti-sodomy laws being declared unconstitutional and public displays of homosexual "affection" being allowed, it was only a matter of time before full acceptance of homosexuality as "normal" would become the law of the land.

 

The homosexuals will not be happy with this but will continue to push until homosexual "rights" are declared to be a constitutional right that all states must accept. Even then the homosexual lobby won't be satisfied. They will go forth looking for any company, organization or group that doesn't allow them to have their way. They will hound them with lawsuits, picketings, boycotts and negative national press coverage. This will eventually extend to churches which refuse to conduct or allow homosexual "weddings" and gatherings. The media and public will support their attempts to infiltrate these churches and they will also have the support of liberal churches which will have their pastors on TV talking about "God is love", telling folks this means God loves homosexuals just as they are and those churches which don't accept open homosexuality as normal will be denounced as extremist, mean spirited, bigoted.

 

We would do well to build ourselves up in the Lord in preparation for the coming storms.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Members

I was both shocked, and saddened as I watched CNN's Anderson Cooper 360 last night. A man being interviewed stated that Jesus wept when the Supreme Court ruled that sodomites were free to marry in the state of California. He followed with the statement, "Jesus wept tears of joy."
 

I hate to burst that man's bubble, but if Jesus was weeping over that ruling by the Supreme Court Justices, it was not tears of joy, but rather tears of great sorrow.
 

Sodomy was an abomination in God's eyes in the days of Moses and Aaron, it was still an abomination in the days of the Apostle Paul, it is still an abomination in God's eyes today.

The sodomites may have won a victory in marriage yesterday, but they will wail and mourn when they stand before God on judgment day.

No matter how they try to justify their sin, God's Word declares that it is sin. His Word says that He is angry with the wicked every day.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Like Jezebel, God has given the sodomites space to repent of their wicked deeds. But one day, God will say, "NO MORE TIME!!" and they will be ashamed of their wickedness.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

And, of course, as it is recognized and legalized and normalized in society, it will make them all the more difficult to be saved. How do you convince a person that their accepted lifestyle, poular and celebrated by society, is a sin?

 

And, what's next? Now that one abberation is normal to society, which will be the next group that demands their 'rights?' NAMBLA? Bestiality advocates? Polygamists? They have all spoken while this was going on, which will be next to be deemed no longer harmful to society, but a benefit?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

And, of course, as it is recognized and legalized and normalized in society, it will make them all the more difficult to be saved. How do you convince a person that their accepted lifestyle, poular and celebrated by society, is a sin?

 

And, what's next? Now that one abberation is normal to society, which will be the next group that demands their 'rights?' NAMBLA? Bestiality advocates? Polygamists? They have all spoken while this was going on, which will be next to be deemed no longer harmful to society, but a benefit?

No doubt that's all true. "Shacking up" used to be known as "living in sin" but that's not been the case for a long time now as such as come to be accepted as normal and even good. It's difficult to get across to those living like this that such is sin because virtually everyone accepts it as fine and they can point to many Christians who do the same and many "church folk" who live like that too.

 

One could say the same about having children outside of marriage, premarital sex, divorce, movies, drinking, and other things being continually added, with cussing being a growing problem in this.

 

All of these are so much harder to reach because their most obvious sins are no longer considered bad or even a sin.

 

NAMBLA has been making strides in California preparing the groundwork for having their perversion declared normal, good and worthy of legalization. They already have several shrinks which have written papers on the good for both adult and child that comes from consensual adult/child sexual relations. A few politicians have indicated agreement with such.

 

Various polygamist groups already have cases in the court system which will be boosted by advances in court wins for homosexuals. Polygamists, along with child sex perverts, are among the biggest supporters and donators to the homosexual "rights" cause.

 

A year or so ago there was someone on TV advocating for bestiality (they used a much more user friendly term; their version of "gay", which makes their sin easier for folks to accept) and he cited the growing acceptance, especially in legal areas, of homosexuality as setting the precedents that will advance his cause.

 

Many law professors and other legal experts (from lawyers to judges) have pointed out that once the precedence has been set that marriage is no longer sacred, no longer confined to one man/one woman, that others who "love" one another are allowed to marry, the legal system will eventually be forced to agree that the same "rights" must be extended to all, including polygamists, adult/child pervs, and virtually all others. One judge pointed out that eventually it will be mandated legal across the land that one can marry someone of the same sex, an adult can marry a 10 year old, a woman can marry her dog, a brother can marry his sister, a man or woman can have as many husbands or wives or a mix of both as they want.

 

Sin leads to sins. Bad sin leads to even worse sin.

 

May we seek grace upon grace to stand firm in Christ no matter what happens.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

It is a sad ruling but not unexpected.

 

Now is the time to dive deep into our Bibles, pray unceasingly, and earnestly contend for the things of Christ.  He has already won the battle for our eternity  but the climb towards that victory is getting steeper and the spiritual battles abound.

 

Now is the time for personal revival.  I am only one person, but one of a band of many others, who believe this is a slap in the face to a righteous and holy God. Lets place our focus on Christ and go out into those fields for souls.

 

John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest. 

Amen! Wise words well accepted.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I read the full decision. Those interested, scroll down to Justice Scalia's dissent. He nails the political agenda that was obvious in this case. The case was already rules in favor of the couple in the district court, it should have never been heard in the Circuit Appeals court, and especially the SCOTUS. 

 

When a case is decided in a district court, it is only precedential in THAT district. When it goes to an appeals court, it is only precedential in that Circuit. New York is in the 2nd Circuit which means that it's decision are only binding on New York, Connecticut and Vermont. Thus they worked it up all the way to SCOTUS and they had no grounds to do so. It's like winning a million dollar lawsuit, and then appealing your own case. Once you win, there's no reason grounds for appeal because there's no "live case or controversy" which is a requirement for granting a "writ of certiori" for the S.Ct. or any court for that matter to hear a case. That had the effect of basically deeming the Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional as applied to all the states.

 

It's virtually just as bad in Israel now. Tel Aviv has become the San Francisco of Israel. It's really said when Russia gets it right on sodomites, and the US and Israel get it wrong :(

 

Full decision here

Edited by Dr James Ach
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

And, of course, as it is recognized and legalized and normalized in society, it will make them all the more difficult to be saved. How do you convince a person that their accepted lifestyle, poular and celebrated by society, is a sin?

 

And, what's next? Now that one abberation is normal to society, which will be the next group that demands their 'rights?' NAMBLA? Bestiality advocates? Polygamists? They have all spoken while this was going on, which will be next to be deemed no longer harmful to society, but a benefit?

Once they legislate laws based upon current socially accepted views of morality, instead of absolute truth, eventually nothing will be restrained. Gen 11:6. Sons will marry their mothers, cousins will marry cousins, Mormons will have multiple brother and sister marriages, Mr Ed can marry Mr Rogers, and eventually it will get so bad the a drunk can marry Jack.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
...the US and Israel get it wrong

 

That is an important observation and sad indeed.

 

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

Consider the fact that the leaders of those two (most powerful) nations have long been forced down our throat. Under scrutiny, their actions are contrary to the people. In 20+ years of being a Christian, I’ve witnessed “intelligent” believers drinking news-media kool-aid, rally behind these ungodly men for years. Madness.

 

To tie this in with the OP, the “powers” (Eph. 6:12) are using the media to condition the masses to accept the “unseemly” while thumbing their nose at Christ. More importantly, it’s a tactical diversion. These “rulers” allow folks to exhaust their energy debating the obvious while keeping you completely unaware of more substantial and nameless issues. These subjects enjoy a complete (mainstream) media blackout.

 

To reiterate, the press does not and will not report news that would undermine the “principalities and powers” of this world. Conversely, the media has no problem publishing content elevating those with “vile affections” since it serves as a controlled distraction.

 

Confession: Having a republican mindset in the 90s (Lord forgive me) and a new love for those claiming the seed of Abraham (Revelation 3:9), I read nearly every article, every day, from the Jerusalem Post and Haaretz et al. (for many years). I rebelled against these publications when I FINALLY realized I was being lied to with cunning craftiness. The Jerusalem Post’s blatant whitewash of some of the middles-east’s self-inflicted terror attacks led my revolt against ALL media. I was such a manipulated fool. I give credit to the lying and duplicitous Jerusalem Post for helping me to finally kick the world’s media out of my life forever.

 

“Rulers of the darkness of this world” are primarily using the press and sold-out “leaders” to carry out the malevolence responsible for molding the views of the entire world. The guilty will not incriminate themselves (Luke 11:18) and they’re the ones running the show on all fronts (Ephesians 6:12).

 

If these words are bothersome, my admonishment would be to first get off the news-media kool-aid (Psalms 1:1).

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

That is an important observation and sad indeed.

 

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

Consider the fact that the leaders of those two (most powerful) nations have long been forced down our throat. Under scrutiny, their actions are contrary to the people. In 20+ years of being a Christian, I’ve witnessed “intelligent” believers drinking news-media kool-aid, rally behind these ungodly men for years. Madness.

 

To tie this in with the OP, the “powers” (Eph. 6:12) are using the media to condition the masses to accept the “unseemly” while thumbing their nose at Christ. More importantly, it’s a tactical diversion. These “rulers” allow folks to exhaust their energy debating the obvious while keeping you completely unaware of more substantial and nameless issues. These subjects enjoy a complete (mainstream) media blackout.

 

To reiterate, the press does not and will not report news that would undermine the “principalities and powers” of this world. Conversely, the media has no problem publishing content elevating those with “vile affections” since it serves as a controlled distraction.

 

Confession: Having a republican mindset in the 90s (Lord forgive me) and a new love for those claiming the seed of Abraham (Revelation 3:9), I read nearly every article, every day, from the Jerusalem Post and Haaretz et al. (for many years). I rebelled against these publications when I FINALLY realized I was being lied to with cunning craftiness. The Jerusalem Post’s blatant whitewash of some of the middles-east’s self-inflicted terror attacks led my revolt against ALL media. I was such a manipulated fool. I give credit to the lying and duplicitous Jerusalem Post for helping me to finally kick the world’s media out of my life forever.

 

“Rulers of the darkness of this world” are primarily using the press and sold-out “leaders” to carry out the malevolence responsible for molding the views of the entire world. The guilty will not incriminate themselves (Luke 11:18) and they’re the ones running the show on all fronts (Ephesians 6:12).

 

If these words are bothersome, my admonishment would be to first get off the news-media kool-aid (Psalms 1:1).

Indeed-the press is absolutely neccessary to change culture. There must be a re-labling of the sin, ie, from 'Illegal Alien', to 'Undocumented worker' or 'unauthorized migrant". Also, as we know, 'Homosexual' or 'Queer', changed to 'Gay, 'cross-dresser' changed to 'trans-gendered', and heterosexual to 'homophobe', baby-murder to 'medical procedure' or 'choice.'  Soon there will be changes like 'Bestiality' to 'animal lover', 'Pedophilia' to 'minor-enchanced relationship', 'polygamy' to 'love-expansion'. And Christian to 'religion-skewed bigot'.  

 

Its all about the name. And the media spreads the propaganda to make these changes more acceptable to the culture.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

And, what's next? Now that one abberation is normal to society, which will be the next group that demands their 'rights?' NAMBLA? Bestiality advocates? Polygamists? They have all spoken while this was going on, which will be next to be deemed no longer harmful to society, but a benefit?

I've heard that polygamists will be next. Why shouldn't they be allowed to marry at this point, after all? I mean, if we can debase marriage to the point where any two consenting adults of legal age can wed and divorce on a lark, why not allow a man and two women or a woman and three men? Or a man and a blood relative? I just hope we're out of here before the SCOTUS rules that states do not have the right to prohibit homosexual "marriage".

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I talked to a former pastor of mine last night about this issue. He said he is no longer performing weddings. They can't make him marry sodomites if he doesn't discriminate and marry legit couples either.

My brother-in-law made the suggestion that pastors start incorporating into their official church duties that they will marry ONLY members of their church. That way if a pastor refuses to marry a gay couple, he can refuse on the grounds that they are not a member of his church, and since homosexuals are not permitted to be members, problem solved. If the person comes out of the closet after they have already been a church member, then you just revoke their membership. Problem still solved.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

My brother-in-law made the suggestion that pastors start incorporating into their official church duties that they will marry ONLY members of their church. That way if a pastor refuses to marry a gay couple, he can refuse on the grounds that they are not a member of his church, and since homosexuals are not permitted to be members, problem solved. If the person comes out of the closet after they have already been a church member, then you just revoke their membership. Problem still solved.

 

Why not be brave & stand with Jesus, them state the truth, I obey God, not man, so we can be happy?

 

Ac 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men

 

That is what the apostles seemed to have done. Oh, there may be consequences, but would it not be great to suffer consequences for following Jesus so closely?

 

1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

In Australia a Pastor has to apply for a licence to be able to marry.
I have never done so.
As a result I can not be in that situation here.

 

I do not know how it is in every other state. But in my state if a church license a person to preach the Gospel they can take their license down to the court house & register it, them they can marry people. There is no cost involved.

 

Or if one is ordained they can take their ordination certificate & do the same.

 

When I was licensed to preach my pastor did not know this. Someone else told me & I checked it out & found it to be true & did so. When i told my pastor he was very surprised.

 

Them when I marry someone I have to enter information on the marriage license about my signature about where I'm registered. This covers me anywhere in the state of Arkansas.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Why not be brave & stand with Jesus, them state the truth, I obey God, not man, so we can be happy?

 

Ac 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men

 

That is what the apostles seemed to have done. Oh, there may be consequences, but would it not be great to suffer consequences for following Jesus so closely?

 

1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

I didn't say not to tell them the truth. But so long as there is a way to avoid getting your church taken, if there's a legal remedy, it never hurts to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves at the same time. Matt 10:16. You can still tell them the truth, and legally be able to argue that you rejected the marriage because they are not a member. Standing by the truth doesn't mean you always have to throw pragmatism out the window. As long as there are still legal means to support your decision, then why not make us of them while you can? You don't have to be a Steven Anderson to tell the truth.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Members

The sad thing is since this sodomite marriage bill was passed,part of our religious freedom has been taken away.

Pastors will not be able to enforce the Christian tenet of therefore shall a man leave his mother and father and cleave unto his wife... Unless he is also willing to marry Adam and Steve or Madam and Eve.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Honestly, the first nail driven in the coffin of traditional marriage was when courting was pretty much done away with in favor of "dating", or "test riding" as the world likes to call it, before marriage. You have people getting married who've already fornicated plenty of times and nobody seems to mind. That was the first step in the diminishing of the sanctity marriage. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I don't think "dating" means "test driving". "Courting" and "dating" can mean a zillion things to a zillion different people...so I prefer to not think of "dating" as something bad unless the person who is dating is making it bad. "Courting" to some just means chaperoned dating (well then, say "chaperoned dating" haha) and to others it means arranged marriages, from a loose to a very strict definition of "arranged". These days you definitely cannot simply "dating" into a category of "courting" and "dating" for sure.

However you are correct that marriage was messed up long before now. If people regularly live together without getting married, then it definitely seems logical to many that we just loosen the definition of marriage to include everyone. It doesn't help that the government gives tax breaks to those who are married, and now gay people want that benefit, too. The government really just needs to get out of it all, period. I think that would be the best way to do things, at this point....allow churches to conduct marriages according to their own beliefs. We can't stop gay marriage at this point, but it would be nice if we could retain church freedom to conduct marriages according to each person's religion.

I keep telling myself that in America, we have a very narrow view of the world. Most other countries already have gay marriage....already have rampant sin, more so than we already do. They already have socialized medicine. America will follow suit. We cannot stop it. But we can just keep doing what we're doing, doing the best we can to serve God no matter what. I figure, the Christians in Europe have survived liberalism....we can too!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

It is a sad ruling but not unexpected.

 

Now is the time to dive deep into our Bibles, pray unceasingly, and earnestly contend for the things of Christ.  He has already won the battle for our eternity  but the climb towards that victory is getting steeper and the spiritual battles abound.

 

Now is the time for personal revival.  I am only one person, but one of a band of many others, who believe this is a slap in the face to a righteous and holy God. Lets place our focus on Christ and go out into those fields for souls.

 

John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest. 

From a Biblical perspective, you hit the nail on the head. To "go" only takes one step at a time. The "teaching" or discipleship requires added effort and has been lacking from Christians.

 

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

I do not know how it is in every other state. But in my state if a church license a person to preach the Gospel they can take their license down to the court house & register it, them they can marry people. There is no cost involved.

 

Or if one is ordained they can take their ordination certificate & do the same.

 

When I was licensed to preach my pastor did not know this. Someone else told me & I checked it out & found it to be true & did so. When i told my pastor he was very surprised.

 

Them when I marry someone I have to enter information on the marriage license about my signature about where I'm registered. This covers me anywhere in the state of Arkansas.

Nevada is much the same, though there is a small fee. Primariy because marriage is big business out there. I live in California right at the border of Nevada, so when I do a wedding there, I have to apply for a special permit to do the wedding-no cost. I don't need one in California. I will continue to perform weddings, and if there is a sudden push by gays to come to have their weddings done by me, and I get in trouble for refusing, well, I'll deal with that then.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Members

Nevada is much the same, though there is a small fee. Primariy because marriage is big business out there. I live in California right at the border of Nevada, so when I do a wedding there, I have to apply for a special permit to do the wedding-no cost. I don't need one in California. I will continue to perform weddings, and if there is a sudden push by gays to come to have their weddings done by me, and I get in trouble for refusing, well, I'll deal with that then.

I would think your refusal could fall under Freedom of Religion.  Your religion (and mine) do not allow for man marrying man, and for the state to say you must is infringing on our God-given rights.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The only "God given right" we have is to decide whether we will obey God or rebel against Him. Beyond that we have no "rights". Either we determine to obey God no matter what, regardless of what the government or any other man says, or we don't.

 

It's easy for us to gather at church speaking up for the Lord because at the moment there is no threat of the government or a mob attacking us. It's much different for believers in many other countries where when they gather to speak up for the Lord they know there is the risk of a mob attacking them or the government swooping down upon them. Their true commitment to the Lord is clear while ours hasn't been tested so we don't yet know who among us will stand true in face of serious persecution, who will fade away, or even who may betray Christ and us.

 

Now is the time to count the cost, decide where we want to stand and prepare ourselves in the Lord for that day.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I would think your refusal could fall under Freedom of Religion.  Your religion (and mine) do not allow for man marrying man, and for the state to say you must is infringing on our God-given rights.

 

It would be, yet I believe it will happen.

 

Many of those sodomites feels that any home that has children in them & the parents teaches about God & Jesus, the children ought to be taken out of that home.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The only "God given right" we have is to decide whether we will obey God or rebel against Him. Beyond that we have no "rights". Either we determine to obey God no matter what, regardless of what the government or any other man says, or we don't.

 

It's easy for us to gather at church speaking up for the Lord because at the moment there is no threat of the government or a mob attacking us. It's much different for believers in many other countries where when they gather to speak up for the Lord they know there is the risk of a mob attacking them or the government swooping down upon them. Their true commitment to the Lord is clear while ours hasn't been tested so we don't yet know who among us will stand true in face of serious persecution, who will fade away, or even who may betray Christ and us.

 

Now is the time to count the cost, decide where we want to stand and prepare ourselves in the Lord for that day.

 

Thank you for waveringly speaking the truth!  A day is coming soon( in USA) that we will be unable to speak the truth without certain persecution and harm as there is in other areas of the world, even so, the truth of the Bible must be spoken..  

 

Quote scripture that is where the real power comes from.

 

John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 25 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

×
×
  • Create New...