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irishman

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I have respect for the OFFICE but not the MAN. 

 

Maybe if he didn't carry so much blame for the direction he is leading this country he would deserve one iota of respect.

I may not mock him in lyrics (only because I'm not that clever) but I will continue to point out his wrongs!

 

This man IS a living joke!

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See, the problem with responding with those examples, is that I read it as you saying 'Jesus did such-and-such, so I can do the same thing.'  However, neither you, I, nor anyone else on these forums is perfectly Christ-like in our actions, attitudes, motives, what-have-you. I don't believe that just because Christ did a particular thing means that we automatically get to do the same thing. Cause we mess it up.

 

 

The government Paul was speaking under was the Roman government. They certainly were not a godly government, and they upheld evil and persecuted good. I mean, hey - they killed Christians for worshipping Christ alone! Our governments aren't even quite that bad yet. If Paul could tell the early believers to be subject to (so much as possible) & honor their corrupt government, we are certainly bound to honor ours. 

 

You may be right, our government ain't there yet.  My question is where is the line that must be crossed before we can call evil evil and speak the truth about those who have taken power in this nation.  Our country has suffered a coup de'etat and no one seems to notice.

 

Sorry.  I lost my sense of humor. :shootme:

 

God bless,

Larry 

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Maybe if Salyan lived in the U.S. she'd understand the embarrassment we have of our "leader". However, didn't the Queen of England recently sign the okay for gay marriage?

I think Obama has drawn the line that now evil should be pointed out and brought to the light as the evil it is. Instead of him getting to hide behind his "position" and him thinking he's above reproach.

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There is a big difference between mocking and pointing out what the Constitution or the Bible actually says.

 

There is also a problem going on when we expect the lost to act like mature, solid followers of Christ.

 

If we know Scripture then we know to expect the lost, including lost leaders, to act like lost sinners.

 

Scripture calls for us to pray for our leaders. What is more likely to move the heart of a leader, 10 minutes a day lifting them up before the Lord each day, or continually mocking them?

 

We can biblically point out that President Bush the Second and President Obama were wrong when they said Islam is a religion of peace, that Muslims and Christians pray to the same God, that virtually all religions lead to heaven. We can use such as an opportunity to share the true Word of God on the matter and as a point of prayer.

 

We can biblically point out the unconstitutional policies, programs and statements made by President Bush the Second and President Obama. We can use our time pointing out exactly what the Constitution says, how presidents have recognized such in the past, how a past court may have ruled in accord with the Constitution on that point. We can point out the oath of office they take and how that applies. We can add these things to our prayers.

 

In both things we can stand true in a civil, kind, loving, Christ honouring manner, while using the occasions to try and help others learn and know the truth of Scripture, of the Constitution, while showing the loving heart of Christ in our lives. Doing all this in an attitude of prayer and trusting the Holy Ghost to work rather than trusting in our wit, emotions or wisdom.

 

What America is facing today with Obama and the rest of the political leaders is nothing new. Such leaders have existed from before the time of Christ, during the time of Christ and ever since the time of Christ on earth. Had previous presidents not been lost sinners going their own way, had previous presidents not violated the Constitution, what Obama is doing today would not even be possible. America, like all other nations, has a long list of lost sinners in leadership and leaders who care little for the rule of law they are to abide by, who do things according to their own wills, with many willing followers both inside leadership and among the people.

 

If our main focus is upon Christ and the kingdom of God these temporal matters won't bother our flesh near as much. We know what's to come, we know the future, we know the final outcome, we know this is not our home, we know God's will shall be done, and we know to pray for that and to be about the Father's business in the meantime.

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I think there is a difference between godly rebuke and disrespectful mocking.

By the way, the Queen signs the laws and does in fact have the power of veto, but it is their parliament that makes the laws and commends them to the Queen.
Whilst I am sure it has happened, I don't know that this queen has ever refused to sign into law a commendation from her government.
It is primarily a ceremonial role.

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Maybe if Salyan lived in the U.S. she'd understand the embarrassment we have of our "leader". However, didn't the Queen of England recently sign the okay for gay marriage?

I think Obama has drawn the line that now evil should be pointed out and brought to the light as the evil it is. Instead of him getting to hide behind his "position" and him thinking he's above reproach.

 

The man setting at the top right now thinks he is always right, & everyone who disagrees with him is always wrong. Sure he felt that way while he was a community organizer too.

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Did anyone consider that Paul may have been referring to leaders in the church?  The Bible was written to Christians mostly, and gives us practical principles to live by; those verses that have to do with salvation (N.T.) are admonishing US to do what we are supposed to do. 

 

Paying tribute may be similar to honor, giving the preachers their due respect., etc.

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Those whom Paul is speaking of in Romans 13 are indeed Church leaders and not unsaved men.  How do we know this?  By the wording of the Scripture itself.

Romans 13 says those rulers we are to submit to are ordained by God and are terrors to the evil and not to the good.  Verse 2 tells us that if we resist the power, we bring damnation upon ourselves.  How could this be speaking of an unsaved ruler?

 

That would be saying if the POTUS told every Church pastor that they were to begin performing homosexual marriages (and it may indeed come to that) and the preacher refuses, God will pronounce damnation upon that preacher.  Is that truly of God?  To join together in marriage two men? 

Of course not!  God never intended unsaved people to rule over His children.

In Hebrews 13, we see the same thing.  Verse 17 tells us that the rulers watch out for our souls.  It is clearly speaking of saved rulers, an unsaved ruler is not concerned for the soul of man.


 

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