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TheSword

Reverse Application Of Ccm

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I grew up watching MTV and listening to rock-n-roll.  Hearing and singing Godly music was a shock to my system.  I knew it was right for the Holy Spirit was working on me.  It took lots of prayer and effort to get the old music out of my head and learn to like the Godly hymns.  It took a while to even learn to read and sing along in the hymn book!  I still don't know what all those squiggly lines (music notes) mean but bought my own copy of Majesty Hymns to learn the words of my favorite ones.  I don't see the book much though, my daughters have commandeered it and I'd much rather listen to them sing!

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I don't always use the set tunes. For different meters I have a range of tunes which people are becoming familiar with. That way they only have new words to cope with. We're making progress.

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I don't always use the set tunes. For different meters I have a range of tunes which people are becoming familiar with. That way they only have new words to cope with. We're making progress.

I must make an admission: I'm not even sure what you mean here. Could you expand on it a bit, please? Seriously, I don't know what you mean by using different tunes rather than set tunes.

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There is a modern church that sticks their signs up all over town advertising for their Sunday morning services. They have three campuses. One is located next door to my favorite Christian book store. I remember my husband and I went to the book store one afternoon and the church kids were spread out all over the church parking lot with their bags, waiting for a youth trip I reckon. I saw teenage girls laying down snuggled up to their boyfriends, heard some obscenities uttered. Most were tuned out with their iPhones. And the worst part was that there were adult chaperones present!

 

Anyway, I came across a video online of their Christmas service. Nary a sign of Jesus' birth, rather a stage decked out with brightly lit trees with a countdown clock projected behind the stage. At midnight, a group of elves came out and did some rear end shaking dance to the song "Party Rock Anthem". I'm familiar with the song from my unsaved days. Let's say there is nothing even remotely wholesome about it. It's not even CCM

 

Why are these churches compromising? It's bad enough when they allow CCM, but secular music and of the most crass variety? What are they thinking?

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Ian:

I don't always use the set tunes. For different meters I have a range of tunes which people are becoming familiar with. That way they only have new words to cope with. We're making progress.

 

I must make an admission: I'm not even sure what you mean here. Could you expand on it a bit, please? Seriously, I don't know what you mean by using different tunes rather than set tunes.

Set tunes as in the music book. I try to choose tunes the congregation may be able to sing.

 

've been singing "trad" hymns all my life, so most of the hymns & tunes are familiar to me. The pastor & congregation don't know them, even "standard" hymns everybody should know. If it's long meter (8888) I use the "Old Hundredth;" 878787 "Beethoven's "Ode to Joy;" 888888 "St. Catherine. And sometimes I stop playing and lead the singing. If Pastor (with his tie mike) doesn't know the hymns, there's a problem.

 

Our church is a "replant" of a baptist church that could not cope with a changing area near Heathrow Airport. An ageing white membership surrounded by an immigrant population. That population was unstable, in that people come into to Heathrow and move to other areas when they can. Our Pastor is a Pakistani Christian supported by a group of churches.

 

For reasons unknown to me, the hymnbook selected was "New Christian Hymns" which is basically a book of 850 "traditional" hymns  with a dozen modern ones, a small children's section, and a few choruses. There is a Welsh publisher, and many  tunes are Welsh, and are deliberately set high, with no regard for the fact that most pianists are dragged onto the piano stool. They will happily alter a tune in C major (all white notes) up to Db with 5 black notes. That means I have to play in a different key. (I can only play tunes with a maximum of 2 black notes.) My left hand plays the chords - I can't play the bass clef at singing speed - I play the top line & associated chords. All other modern books print the chords above the stave. This one doesn't.

 

The road the church is in is a VERY expensive housing area with a stable population. They filled the church on ONE occasion 25 (?) years ago when rumours of the church being sold and becoming a mosque were circulating. The answer was negative, so they never came in again - except for public meetings. Airport staff held a public meeting there about a possible third runway, and they complained about the aircraft noise. The surrounding area is mainly rented, to non-Christian immigrants. The local schools have very few English children. When we hold a book table, we are thronged by Muslim children quoting the Quran.

 

The Anglican church has around 40 at Mass, and there are only 3 in the choir. The Vicar, Father Michael is an accomplished musician. I've never been to a service, but sing with a secular choir that uses the church hall. There is another Anglican church in his Parish (in a park, with a footpath under the motorway for access.) There is an old photo on the noticeboard showing they once displayed  the 10 Commandments. That has been replaced by a graven image of the queen of heaven .... 

 

I left the Anglican church in 1957 & was baptised as a believer that year, in my first term at university.

 

I know that tells you more than you wanted to know ..... when you come to England & fly into Heathrow, look us up.

Edited by Covenanter

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There is a modern church that sticks their signs up all over town advertising for their Sunday morning services. They have three campuses. One is located next door to my favorite Christian book store. I remember my husband and I went to the book store one afternoon and the church kids were spread out all over the church parking lot with their bags, waiting for a youth trip I reckon. I saw teenage girls laying down snuggled up to their boyfriends, heard some obscenities uttered. Most were tuned out with their iPhones. And the worst part was that there were adult chaperones present!

 

Anyway, I came across a video online of their Christmas service. Nary a sign of Jesus' birth, rather a stage decked out with brightly lit trees with a countdown clock projected behind the stage. At midnight, a group of elves came out and did some rear end shaking dance to the song "Party Rock Anthem". I'm familiar with the song from my unsaved days. Let's say there is nothing even remotely wholesome about it. It's not even CCM

 

Why are these churches compromising? It's bad enough when they allow CCM, but secular music and of the most crass variety? What are they thinking?

This sort of thing is actually common across the land. So many churches want to "be cool", are willing to adopt things of the world to draw folks in, hold to the idea they must "act like the lost to win the lost", and other unbiblical things.

 

I still remember some churches using the song "Macarena" (not sure of the spelling) when that song was popular, even though the dance with the song was overtly sexual. More recently there have been many churches using "Gangnam Style". There were even some churches a few years ago that formed their VBS programs around the Harry Potter books. Some churches use the song, "Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer" in their Christmas programs. I even saw a video on YouTube where a church made a zombie video (the message they were trying to put forth was a good one, but zombies???). Some churches host Superbowl parties where they show the game on their big screens in the sanctuary rather than having church services that night. Some churches host all sorts of things on Halloween, some good but many just a watered down version of what the world is doing.

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I must make an admission: I'm not even sure what you mean here. Could you expand on it a bit, please? Seriously, I don't know what you mean by using different tunes rather than set tunes.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meter_(hymn)

 

I don't always use the set tunes. For different meters I have a range of tunes which people are becoming familiar with. That way they only have new words to cope with. We're making progress.

 

We have a book in our church library of Psalms set to various meters. It looks quite neat. I personally prefer singing known hymns to known tunes - it just doesn't seem right if they're different! - but it'd be fun to try the meter style on some less known wordings.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meter_(hymn)

 

 

We have a book in our church library of Psalms set to various meters. It looks quite neat. I personally prefer singing known hymns to known tunes - it just doesn't seem right if they're different! - but it'd be fun to try the meter style on some less known wordings.

Is that the Scottish Metrical Psalter with every page cut in half so you can mix & match words & tunes? I've got it.  Some are OK but in many cases the "poetry" is forced & unpoetic.

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Is that the Scottish Metrical Psalter with every page cut in half so you can mix & match words & tunes? I've got it.  Some are OK but in many cases the "poetry" is forced & unpoetic.

 

I don't think it's that one... it's not very old. Seems to me it's called 'Singing the Psalms' or some such thing. I'll have to take another look at it.

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There is a modern church that sticks their signs up all over town advertising for their Sunday morning services. They have three campuses. One is located next door to my favorite Christian book store. I remember my husband and I went to the book store one afternoon and the church kids were spread out all over the church parking lot with their bags, waiting for a youth trip I reckon. I saw teenage girls laying down snuggled up to their boyfriends, heard some obscenities uttered. Most were tuned out with their iPhones. And the worst part was that there were adult chaperones present!

 

Anyway, I came across a video online of their Christmas service. Nary a sign of Jesus' birth, rather a stage decked out with brightly lit trees with a countdown clock projected behind the stage. At midnight, a group of elves came out and did some rear end shaking dance to the song "Party Rock Anthem". I'm familiar with the song from my unsaved days. Let's say there is nothing even remotely wholesome about it. It's not even CCM

 

Why are these churches compromising? It's bad enough when they allow CCM, but secular music and of the most crass variety? What are they thinking?

 

Sad to say they do not think that their compromising the least bit.

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The problem is that compromise is not in their vocabulary. They are taught nothing of the Biblical mandate for separation, and so it is not even a consideration. Rules of acceptable behavior are then based only on the beliefs or preferences of individuals in authority, and often have no real Scriptural backing, thus rendering them impotent when challenged by permissive parents. The common misapplication of 'all things to all men' doesn't help either!

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Why are these churches compromising? It's bad enough when they allow CCM, but secular music and of the most crass variety? What are they thinking?

 

These are not really New Testament Churches of the kind that Jesus Christ founded and as described in the Bible.  They do not bear any resemblance to one either.  They are full of people who have never been scripturally born again and thus ripe for evangelism.

 

They are more akin to concert halls and recreation centers as they exist to feed the flesh.

Edited by swathdiver

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These are not really New Testament Churches of the kind that Jesus Christ founded and as described in the Bible.  They do not bear any resemblance to one either.  They are full of people who have never been scripturally born again and thus ripe for evangelism.

 

They are more akin to concert halls and recreation centers as they exist to feed the flesh.

If we are still talking most about IFB churches, as in the OP and elsewhere, then this isn't the case in most of them. There are some IFB churches in this area which now use CCM, some in the adapted form, some as written. These churches are still filled with biblically born again Christians, they have just decided upon a different course from what they used to run on.

 

The IFB churches I'm familiar with that have accepted CCM have also turned to MVs, lowered standards of dress, lowered standards of separation in some areas, yet most of the congregation are still born again Christians.

 

If you are referring to churches other than IFB, then certainly many of them are of the worldly variety to begin with, filled with worldly Christians, not biblical Christians. In such churches it should come as no surprise when they do anything that conforms to the world because they are a part of the world.

 

Back to the IFB churches, it's likely that over the course of time as IFB churches loosen more of their standards their congregations will eventually shift from being mostly born again to eventually being made up of mostly worldly Christians. This will eventually happen because some of the born again folks in these sort of IFB churches will leave over these matters, others won't join, and these IFB churches becoming more like many of the evangelical churches will eventually start drawing some of them into their churches.

 

We are heading to the point where IFB will no longer hold its separatist, biblical meaning and there will be a shift to some new term to distinguish the sound churches from the others. While it's sad to see this happening, it could be interesting to see what new distinctive name comes out of this and how many go that route and how many take the easy way.

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There is a modern church that sticks their signs up all over town advertising for their Sunday morning services. They have three campuses. One is located next door to my favorite Christian book store. I remember my husband and I went to the book store one afternoon and the church kids were spread out all over the church parking lot with their bags, waiting for a youth trip I reckon. I saw teenage girls laying down snuggled up to their boyfriends, heard some obscenities uttered. Most were tuned out with their iPhones. And the worst part was that there were adult chaperones present!

 

Anyway, I came across a video online of their Christmas service. Nary a sign of Jesus' birth, rather a stage decked out with brightly lit trees with a countdown clock projected behind the stage. At midnight, a group of elves came out and did some rear end shaking dance to the song "Party Rock Anthem". I'm familiar with the song from my unsaved days. Let's say there is nothing even remotely wholesome about it. It's not even CCM

 

Why are these churches compromising? It's bad enough when they allow CCM, but secular music and of the most crass variety? What are they thinking?

I can tell you exactly what they're thinking because, before I got saved, when I was still a false convert, I talked the talk so well that they made me the youth leader and that's exactly what I would have done.

 

The first mistake they've made is that they've gotten their ecclesiology wrong and are using the church as an evangelism tool, when the Biblical model of evangelism is for the Church to go out into the world and evangelize, not to bring the lost back and turn the church over to them.

 

That not only turns ecclesiology on its head, but is just a silly idea. Why are we trying to win the lost by being like the world when they're already in the world and surrounded by worldly things and, frankly, the world does  a much better job of being worldly?

 

So the idea behind it is the youth leaders telling the lost kids, "Hey, we're cool and we like Jesus. And if you think we're cool, then you'll think Jesus is super cool and you'll want to accept Him into your heart".

 

What really ends up happening is that churches end up spending more time entertaining goats than feeding sheep or, Heaven forbid, making disciples.

 

The second problem is that the church is segregating people by age. In our church, we're not against youth groups, per se, but we've chosen not to have one because the Biblical model is always growth in maturity and wisdom.So, rather than a youth group, we choose to pair them up with older saints and more mature in the faith saints for mentorship.

 

We want our kids to have fun and enjoy themselves and have a good time, but we also want them to understand that there are somethings that are serious and should be treated reverently, and that church is one of those things. Besides, about 90% of what goes on in your average church youth group, they're already getting outside of church.

Edited by Auburn88

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