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Reverse Application Of Ccm

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The use of CCM in IFB churches (whether in the CCM orignal format or a traditionalized rendition of it) has been thoroughly thrashed here.  It is clear that most of us here are, generally speaking, against CCM to various degrees.  I was reading more about the subject on David Cloud's site (via some of his RSS postings here) and one particular beef with it is the association(s) part of it (as has also been thoroughly debated on this forum). 

 

My intent is not to rehash either of those debates in this thread.  Rather, I had a thought about the way CCM artists often take some of our more traditional hyms and put them to their version of music.  If one of our beefs with using CCM songs that are otherwise doctrinally "ok" in their lyrics is the association with the artist and/or the secular world, what happens if one of our beloved hymns becomes popularized by one of these artists?  What if one of their renditions gains a large following by people outside of a doctrinally sound church to the point where most people don't know what the orginal sounded like or even that the song did not originate with the CCM artist?  Should we cease using that hymn because of the association that may be a stumbling block to new converts?  Or is it better for them to see/hear the original, even if they don't like the original music it goes with?

 

For example, let's take the old-time favorite, Amazing Grace.  Several years ago, the soundtrack to the movie Maverick included the cast singing a hoe-down version of it.  Quite catchy and I'm sure many people who liked country music enjoyed it.  In recent years, Chris Tomlin's version has been immensly popular in a variety of circles.  What if his version is the only thing teens in this era are being exposed to and that's the only version they know?  Does the classic hymn start to become a point of contention?

 

This is purely conjectural, as I can't imagine Amazing Grace being totally lost to the quagmire of CCM, but what about some of the lesser known/sung hymns? 

 

Anyway...it was just a passing thought I had and I'm not looking to start a huge fiery debate; just curious to hear other people's perspectives.

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To a large extent, this is already taking place. It's not only teens who are unfamiliar with the old hymns, many in their 20s, 30s and some older also have no knowledge of the old hymns. This, in part, was the reasoning stated by some CCM artists for "updating" the old hymns in CCM style.

 

I read an article earlier this year and it claimed Chris Tomlin's version of Amazing Grace is more well known today than the original. Several other old hymns were mentioned in the article which various CCM artists have "updated" over the past few years especially. Apparently for those in their 30s and younger this has been their first exposure to the old hymns.

 

While not directly connected to the old hymn issue, but yet touching upon it, the article also pointed out that Chris Tomlin's songs are sang in more church around the world each Sunday than any other songs, old or new. There was a long list of songs by Chris Tomlin that are more well known around the world than the top secular songs.

 

For these millions around the world, when they hear one of these old hymns, their first thought is the CCM version which is the first, and for some, only version of the old hymns they have ever heard.

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An excellent point that truly highlights topic of the thread.  It begs the question...what are we to do with hymns that go this route?  Refrain from them or dig in our heels and present the quality of the originals with no compromises?

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An excellent point that truly highlights topic of the thread.  It begs the question...what are we to do with hymns that go this route?  Refrain from them or dig in our heels and present the quality of the originals with no compromises?

I don't believe we should refrain from those old hymns.....I agree with your last point....."dig in our heels and present the quality of the originals with no compromise."  The body of Christ is losing sight of who wrote these hymns and why those original hymn writers wrote those hymns in the first place.  The music and lyrics were not originally written to "entertain" the masses, but to glorify our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.....which is the very thing that the body of Christ is losing sight of.

Edited by LindaR

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I don't believe we should refrain from those old hymns.....I agree with your last point....."dig in our heels and present the quality of the originals with no compromise."  The body of Christ is losing sight of who wrote these hymns and why those original hymn writers wrote those hymns in the first place.  The music and lyrics were not originally written to "entertain" the masses, but to glorify our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.....which is the very thing that the body of Christ is losing sight of.

And therein lies much of the problem with today's view of music in our churches, yea even IBCs --- seeking entertainment.

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Here, of course, is the problem: The Devil likes to co-opt the things of God-take them and make them seem his own. Consider such things as rainbows, first taken for use by the new age, now by the 'homosexual community'; goats, biblically considered one of the holy animals, for use as the sacrifice of atonement, as well as the passover, thus, a picture of Christ, now a sign of satanism, associated with the false god, Baphomet, as well as declared by I believe the SDA as picturing Satan in the scapegoat. Satan has sought to pollute the word of God with his numerous (per)versions. Even the birth and resurrection of Jesus have been made into worldly things, more closely associated with pagan religions and carnality.  

 

The question is, do these things then become untouchable? I say thee, Nay! Now, while I don't celebrate the birth of Jesus, specifically speaking, I celebrate His resurrection, just not usually on Easter, unless it falls on the Sunday closest before the Passover. The rainbow is still a sign of the covenant God made with man after the flood, and such we should proclaim from the pulpits. My wife did her master's thesis on the goats in the Bible, and people should know that they, like lambs, are an OT picture of Christ. We should mloudly proclaim these things belong to God, came from God, and still do, and declare the other associations as abominations.

 

And so it is with they hymns-they were written to God, dedicated to Him, words and music, and still are honoring to Him, when the worldliness aspects are removed.

 

We lose ground when we give it over to Satan willingly-let's keep declaring the truth, be it in word or in song.

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Contemporary Christian Music Rips Off Hymns
Whatever happened to the "new song" of CCM?

July 10, 2009
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Modern music trends have been pointed downhill for many decades. Rock, rap, ect. have been born out of a spirit of rebellion. Unfortunately, this wordiness has crept into the churches via “Christian” rock and Contemporary Christian Music (CCM). (CCM, while not as bad as Christian rock, tends to have fluffy, anointed, unscriptural lyrics.) However, I have noticed another sad trend of CCM. CCM writers, lacking the anointing to write real spiritual music, “...songs and hymns and spiritual songs...” (Eph 5:19) are now ripping off the great hymns of the faith. CCM, being unable to produce anointed music, has now turned to defiling anointed music. Hymns are being modernized, and given contemporary elements, such as drumbeats, as evident in some cheap hymn collections that I possess. However, this is just the tip of the iceberg. CCM is now taking hymns and gutting them, adding modern choruses, replacing the melody, and changing the words.

 

If this sounds absurd, here are a few examples. A couple years ago, I came across “My Savior My God” by Aaron Shust, a CCM song that I actually liked. The lyrics carried an anointing, and the music was (marginally) acceptable. I decided to get the CD with the piece, thinking that the rest of the artist's music would possess the same anointing. To my shock and surprise, it did not. The rest of the music on the CD paled in comparison to “My Savior My God,” the song that I had wanted. Then, I discovered that the lyrics for “My Savior My God” had been taken from a hymn entitled “I Am Not Skilled to Understand.” Compare the lyrics below:

 

I Am Not Skilled to Understand

I am not skilled to understand
What God hath willed, what God hath planned;
I only know that at His right hand
Is One Who is my Savior!

I take Him at His word indeed;
“Christ died for sinners”—this I read;
For in my heart I find a need
Of Him to be my Savior!

That He should leave His place on high
And come for sinful man to die,
You count it strange? So once did I,
Before I knew my Savior!

And oh, that He fulfilled may see
The travail of His soul in me,
And with His work contented be,
As I with my dear Savior!

Yea, living, dying, let me bring
My strength, my solace from this Spring;
That He Who lives to be my King
Once died to be my Savior!

 

My Savior My God

I am not skilled to understand
What God has willed, what God has planned
I only know at His right hand
Stands one who is my Savior

I take Him at His word and deed
Christ died to save me; this I read
And in my heart I find a need
Of Him to be my savior

That He would leave His place on high
And come for sinful man to die
You count it strange, so once did I
Before I knew my Savior

Chorus (2x's)

My Savior loves, My Savior lives
My Savior's always there for me
My God: He was, my God; He is
My God is always gonna be

Yes, living, dying, let me bring
My strength, my solace from this spring;
That He who lives to be my King
Once died to be my Savior

That He would leave His place on high
And come for sinful man to die
You count it strange, so once did I
Before I knew my Savior

Chorus (2x's)

Chorus: (2x's)

My Savior loves, My Savior lives
My Savior loves, My Savior lives

 

Shust even admitted plagiarizing the hymn and replacing it's original melody:

 

I was reading my “One Year Book of Hymns” and stumbled across a hymn entitled “I Am Not Skilled to Understand” whose words blew me away. I didn't bother searching for the melody; its obscurity indicated antiquity. So I started from scratch...

 

- CD Insert, Aaron Shust, Anything Worth Saying

 

While Shust's music isn't as bad as some that I've heard, it shows that CCM artists are modernizing hymns as they are having trouble producing anointed music of their own. This is seen in Shust's music by comparing “My Savior My God” with the rest of the music on this album.

 

“When I Survey the Wondrous Cross” is a majestic old hymn. CCM artist Chris Tomlin has taken this hymn and tacked on an upbeat, contemporary chorus, while leaving the original lyrics intact. However, he did modernize the melody with an added drumbeat. He released it as “The Wonderful Cross.” When I heard this piece in person, there was a glaring difference between the traditional hymn and the added chorus. The chorus is faster, it lacks the majesty of the hymn, and just does not fit in. You can hear the alterations here. User discretion advised. Here the original here.

 

When I Survey the Wondrous Cross

When I survey the wondrous cross
On which the Prince of glory died,
My richest gain I count but loss,
And pour contempt on all my pride.

Forbid it, Lord, that I should boast,
Save in the death of Christ my God!
All the vain things that charm me most,
I sacrifice them to His blood.

See from His head, His hands, His feet,
Sorrow and love flow mingled down!
Did e’er such love and sorrow meet,
Or thorns compose so rich a crown?

His dying crimson, like a robe,
Spreads o’er His body on the tree;
Then I am dead to all the globe,
And all the globe is dead to me.

Were the whole realm of nature mine,
That were a present far too small;
Love so amazing, so divine,
Demands my soul, my life, my all.

 

The Wonderful Cross

When I survey the wondrous cross
On which the Prince of Glory died
My richest gain I count but loss
And pour contempt on all my pride

See from his head, his hands, his feet
Sorrow and love flow mingled down
Did ever such love and sorrow meet
Or thorns compose so rich a crown

Chorus:

O the wonderful cross, O the wonderful cross
Bids me come and die and find that I may truly live
O the wonderful cross, O the wonderful cross
All who gather here by grace draw near and bless
Your name

Were the whole realm of nature mine
That were an offering far too small
Love so amazing, so divine
Demands my soul, my life, my al

 

Amazing Grace has been described as the anthem hymn of the Christian faith. However, CCM artist Todd Agnew has taken great liberty to alter this hymn to produce his hit, Grace Like Rain. This piece modernizes some of the words, and adds a chorus. However, the worst part is the melody. The original uplifting melody has been scrapped and replaced with one that is dull and melancholy. This modern counterfeit sounds horrible. In my opinion, Grace Like Rain is a horrible butchery of Amazing Grace. You have to hear this to believe it. Hear the counterfeit. Warning: user discretion advised. Hear the original Amazing Grace.

 

Amazing Grace

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis Grace that brought me safe thus far
and Grace will lead me home.

When we've been here ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun.
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we've first begun.

 

Grace Like Rain

Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost but now I'm found
Was blind but now I see so clearly

Chorus:
Hallelujah, grace like rain falls down on me
Hallelujah, all my stains are washed away, washed away

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear
And grace my fears relieved
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed

Chorus

When we've been there ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun
We've no less days to sing Your praise
Than when we first begun

Chorus

Chorus

 

Contemporary Christian Music artists, having adopted worldly music styles, are having trouble producing music that is truly Spirit-filled. To make up for the lack of anointing, they have turned to the old hymns of the faith, stolen their lyrics, and replaced the traditional tunes with contemporary ones. “Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.” (Prov 22:28). The landmark hymns need to be restored, not removed. There is an ongoing movement to bring back the old hymns, and produce new ones. But turning hymns into CCM is not acceptable.


 

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He didn't know a hymn, so decided it must be antiquarian beyond concern of copyright or plagiarism?! How prideful. Seriously. When i came to this church, I discovered so many recent hymns that I'd never heard of before, even though I probably knew a lot more hymns than most people on my evangelical church. (Not to sound boastful, just a point of fact.) There's a huge wealth of hymnary out there that few Christians know about.

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Wow, so they take old hymns, change the music completely, change the name and try to pass them off as their own. How utterly dishonest! Even if, in smoe place, they admit the writer to be someone other than themselves, to change the name, which is what one sees only when the CD is purchased, is dishonest. No surprise, though. Just sad.

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I agree.

 

I don't like messing around with old hymns.

 

However that last verse of Amazing Grace was not written by John Newton.

 

1 AMAZING grace! how sweet the sound,
that saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
was blind, but now I see.
2 ’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
and grace my fears relieved;
how precious did that grace appear
the hour I first believed!
3 Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
’tis grace has brought me safe thus far,
and grace will lead me home.
4 The Lord has promised good to me,
His Word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be
as long as life endures.
5 Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
and mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil
a life of joy and peace.
6 The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
the sun forbear to shine;
but God, who called me here below,
will be forever mine.
John Newton, 1725-1807
 
The following may be sung as an alternative final verse
6 When I’ve been there a thousand years,
bright shining as the sun,
I’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
than when I first begun.
From a collection of Sacred Ballads, 1790

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I agree.

 

I don't like messing around with old hymns.

 

However that last verse of Amazing Grace was not written by John Newton.

 

1 AMAZING grace! how sweet the sound,
that saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
was blind, but now I see.
2 ’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
and grace my fears relieved;
how precious did that grace appear
the hour I first believed!
3 Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
’tis grace has brought me safe thus far,
and grace will lead me home.
4 The Lord has promised good to me,
His Word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be
as long as life endures.
5 Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
and mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil
a life of joy and peace.
6 The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
the sun forbear to shine;
but God, who called me here below,
will be forever mine.
John Newton, 1725-1807
 
The following may be sung as an alternative final verse
6 When I’ve been there a thousand years,
bright shining as the sun,
I’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
than when I first begun.
From a collection of Sacred Ballads, 1790

 

I've read that Amazing Grace has been tried with several different melodies and some differing lyrics before we got to what we typically consider the standard hymn today. It's also interesting that this hymn was not well received at first and didn't gain any real acceptance until it gained popularity in America.

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I agree.

 

I don't like messing around with old hymns.

 

However that last verse of Amazing Grace was not written by John Newton.

 

1 AMAZING grace! how sweet the sound,
that saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
was blind, but now I see.
2 ’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
and grace my fears relieved;
how precious did that grace appear
the hour I first believed!
3 Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
’tis grace has brought me safe thus far,
and grace will lead me home.
4 The Lord has promised good to me,
His Word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be
as long as life endures.
5 Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
and mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil
a life of joy and peace.
6 The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
the sun forbear to shine;
but God, who called me here below,
will be forever mine.
John Newton, 1725-1807
 
The following may be sung as an alternative final verse
6 When I’ve been there a thousand years,
bright shining as the sun,
I’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
than when I first begun.
From a collection of Sacred Ballads, 1790

 

 

Fascinating.  I had no idea and always wondered why some versions had one verse or the other.  Thanks for that piece of info.

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When I was researching my recent book, I spent hundreds of hours researching public domain hymns so I can arrange them for guitar in a way that honors the Lord Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, while researching what material is out there, I’ve seen the videos done by many of these second-rate musicians. They like to make absurd statements such as, “… took this old dead hymn and livened it up” etc.

 

The truth is that they couldn’t play a song any other way. That’s all they know. If you put a hymnal or piece of sheet music in front of them, they’d be lost and exposed for what they are.

 

Consider some motives: Time-tested hymns appeal to these carnal musicians because they’re already very popular.  The melody and lyrics are both in the public domain and are fair game for anyone to use without copyright infringement. It’s easy to put a catchy and rhythmic motif to an already popular melody with very little creativity.

 

Since most of these inferior musicians cannot produce good music, they take the works of others, desecrate them with the profane the styles of the world, and call them their own.

 

This topic especially grieves me. I’m doing my part to make arrangements for the old-time gospel hymns freely available so young Christian guitarists can learn them.

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I dislike them taking a perfectly good hymn & ruining it, the ones that I have heard them convert that's exactly what they have done.

 

If they like an old hymn sing it just as it is.

 

And if they have to butcher up old hymns to have something new they need to get out of the business.

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I don't believe we should refrain from those old hymns.....I agree with your last point....."dig in our heels and present the quality of the originals with no compromise."  The body of Christ is losing sight of who wrote these hymns and why those original hymn writers wrote those hymns in the first place.  The music and lyrics were not originally written to "entertain" the masses, but to glorify our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.....which is the very thing that the body of Christ is losing sight of.

 

Many, very many, of the old hymns tells true Bible truths, they're scriptural. And the music they're sang to is not fleshly music.

 

And it seem the Devils hates them & is doing everything he can to be sure they are not sung in churches today.

 

One day a few years ago I went to the church I grew up in cemetery to take a picture of some graves for a woman that lives out west. While there I noticed a sound coming over the cemetery from the church building, some people were inside belting out the song, The Devil Went Down To Georgia. How sad it made me hearing that song ring out all of those graves of many people who attended that church all of their life.

 

The Devils crowd has no respect for such a scared place as what was once Jesus's New Testament Church not the good song they sing.

 

A few months later that church split right down the seams, partly over music. I found out later it was the pastors long haired son & his buddies who was belting out the country western hymns in the church building.

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The worst thing I ever heard done to an old hymn was done to Amazing Grace. I was on a long drive home one night and decided to scan the channels looking for a Christian station. After finding a couple CCM stations I finally came across a station with someone reading from the KJB so I stopped on that station. After a nice long reading from the KJB they said Amazing Grace was next, then they played a couple of service announcements and "Amazing Grace" came on.

 

WOW! I've never heard such a train wreck before. There was some soft music, the beginning lyrics were sang quietly, and then POW! Suddenly this very heavy metal guitar riff blasted through the car speakers followed by someone "singing" Amazing Grace in a heavy metal rock style. Not only that, but I noticed they took out the word "wretch" from the song but I can't now remember what watered down word they replaced it with. I couldn't bring myself to listen to much of that, even though I was tired and wanted the radio on, I cut the radio off.

 

How anyone could think making Amazing Grace a heavy metal rock song was a good idea, or that anyone would want to listen to it, I have no idea. Thankfully, I've never heard that again.

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Many, very many, of the old hymns tells true Bible truths, they're scriptural. And the music they're sang to is not fleshly music.

 

And it seem the Devils hates them & is doing everything he can to be sure they are not sung in churches today.

 

One day a few years ago I went to the church I grew up in cemetery to take a picture of some graves for a woman that lives out west. While there I noticed a sound coming over the cemetery from the church building, some people were inside belting out the song, The Devil Went Down To Georgia. How sad it made me hearing that song ring out all of those graves of many people who attended that church all of their life.

 

The Devils crowd has no respect for such a scared place as what was once Jesus's New Testament Church not the good song they sing.

 

A few months later that church split right down the seams, partly over music. I found out later it was the pastors long haired son & his buddies who was belting out the country western hymns in the church building.

How many once lively churches are now as dead as that graveyard, due to the influence of Satan's music?

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:ot:

 

Speaking of graveyards, some of them can be pretty interesting places to visit - especially the old ones! I love wandering through a peaceful country cemetery and reading the epitaphs. Sometimes, you can tell from the unique verses and sayings that people chose to put down that they must truly have been saved. 

:11backtotopic:

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How many once lively churches are now as dead as that graveyard, due to the influence of Satan's music?

 

That is something I can't answer, but the Devil has made many of them noneffective even though they may have many members. And it seem many of the noneffective churches are the ones who have the most pull.

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:ot:

 

Speaking of graveyards, some of them can be pretty interesting places to visit - especially the old ones! I love wandering through a peaceful country cemetery and reading the epitaphs. Sometimes, you can tell from the unique verses and sayings that people chose to put down that they must truly have been saved. 

:11backtotopic:

 

:hijacked:     :ot:

 

So true, once in a while the wife & I will walk though a cemetery. In the older ones its amazing at how many babies were born dead & or lasted only a few days. Also you will see many who did not make it to the age of 21. 

 

Many of us do not know how much we are blessed to live in this age in the perspective of medical care. Of course while we have gained it our country has lost its interest in God & godly morals. Oh how I wish people around here had the interest in Church, God, & Jesus they did in my gowning up days in the 50's -60's.

 

:11backtotopic:

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People come into the church with NO basic knowledge of hymn-type music or even the type of singalong ballads that were popular until the 60s. Once the "folk revival" faded and electronic beat "music" took over, a generation have lost the concept of singing.  They're all plugged in now. 

 

They can relate to CCM but I wont play it. The rhythm on my keyboard is silent, & I keep to the chapel organ register.

 

It does present problems in choosing hymns. We do occasionally include new ones, but only hymn style.

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People come into the church with NO basic knowledge of hymn-type music or even the type of singalong ballads that were popular until the 60s. Once the "folk revival" faded and electronic beat "music" took over, a generation have lost the concept of singing.  They're all plugged in now. 

 

They can relate to CCM but I wont play it. The rhythm on my keyboard is silent, & I keep to the chapel organ register.

 

It does present problems in choosing hymns. We do occasionally include new ones, but only hymn style.

 

 

So true, & many times no one will step up & stop it.

 

Them there's the music lovers, not all music lovers are this way, but many of the music loves refuse to cull anything.

 

For instants, a man I know, he was a music lover, he wanted to make it big in country western music, but failed, & he waited much money trying to make it big. Later in life he & wife gets into church, the 1st thing they have him singing, & singing & playing in their church group. And they let him bring in music that was not rightly fit to be played in church.

 

And to even things up I know of a another man who tried to make it big in country western, but he got into church early & he did not try bringing in improper music. And this one can sing Amazing Grace beautiful with or without music. He was the song leader in my father & mother-in-laws Church. When I did their funerals he led the singing, & we would have one song by the graveside without music. Both times I was standing quite close to him. I did not sing, I listened to him, it was gorgeous even without music!

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People come into the church with NO basic knowledge of hymn-type music or even the type of singalong ballads that were popular until the 60s. Once the "folk revival" faded and electronic beat "music" took over, a generation have lost the concept of singing.  They're all plugged in now. 

 

They can relate to CCM but I wont play it. The rhythm on my keyboard is silent, & I keep to the chapel organ register.

 

It does present problems in choosing hymns. We do occasionally include new ones, but only hymn style.

Sure they can relate to the CCM, because they relate to the worldly, godless music style they hear played on their radio. What their flesh wants doesn't matter, particularly in the church-they receive what they need, and hopefully, one day will appreciate.

 

We have a couple who have been coming for a few weeks now, coming over from a non-denominational modern church, and its fun watching them learning the old hymns-they really seem to be enjoying them, and are challenged. Since I conduct ehe music in the church, as well as preach, I get to watch and see who sings and who doesn't, and its always nice to see some who really like the music, even if they have no talent to sing a lick. I always tell them, the Bible says, "Make a joyful NOISE unto the Lord", not "Make a pleasant sound"-the Lord loves it, if it is joyful.

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About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

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