Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Pre Tribulation Rapture Of The Church


Recommended Posts

  • Members

Could any tribulation be any worse?

 

It is constantly said on here that the church will not go through tribulation.

Maybe everyone isn't wording things clearly, but the pre-trib rapture view is that there will be a 7 year tribulation and Christians will be raptured before that occurs. They acknowledge there will be persecution and tribulation prior to that, but contend the 7 year tribulation will be much greater than anything previous and is the outpouring of the wrath of God which Christians will not be subject to.

 

Mid-trib rapturists hold to a similar view, except they only view the last half of the 7 year tribulation as the wrath of God and believe the church will be raptured at the mid-point of the 7 year tribulation, just prior to the Great Tribulation which they contend lasts 3 1/2 years and is the wrath of God.

 

Both agree there is persecution and tribulation for Christians prior to this, but see "The Tribulation" and especially "The Great Tribulation" as being very much worse and something Christians will not go through because of being raptured prior to it beginning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

To all who are not going to be raptured before the tribulation,

 

 

Zephaniah 1:14-2:3

14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.

17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;

2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD's anger come upon you.

3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD's anger.

 

The tribulation will be soon since Israel has gathered.

 

How will you take care of your family during the tribulation? Russia and America(((Jeremiah 6:22))) will fight a nuclear war. America will win but how will you live? This is searious!

Edited by Eric Stahl
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

To all who are not going to be raptured before the tribulation,

 

 

Zephaniah 1:14-2:3

14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.

17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;

2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD's anger come upon you.

3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD's anger.

 

The tribulation will be soon since Israel has gathered.

 

How will you take care of your family during the tribulation? Russia and America(((Jeremiah 6:22))) will fight a nuclear war. America will win but how will you live? This is searious!

Where does this say Russia and America will fight a nuclear war?

 

In or out of tribulation, the lost are in exceeding danger. In or out of tribulation, the saved are assured of their destination.

 

Either way, the point of knowing the end will one day be upon us is a call to action on our part to pursue personal holiness while spreading the Gospel and making disciples.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I believe that what is called the PTR is in fact the coming of Christ for resurrection & judgement, and that there will be no further opportunity for anyone to repent & be saved.

 

If there is no further opportunity for salvation during the tribulation, then who are the tribulation saints and why the need for 144,000 set apart Jewish converts to preach the Gospel after the rapture?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

2 Thessalonians 2:7 does not say it is the Holy Spirit who will be taken out of the way.  It could be a (super) angel as we see in Daniel 10. 

Oft repeated "assumptions" will not always prove the case.

 

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth  will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

If there is no further opportunity for salvation during the tribulation, then who are the tribulation saints and why the need for 144,000 set apart Jewish converts to preach the Gospel after the rapture?

 

I disagree with that, however, I firmly believe that anyone who has heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, & had understood it, rejected Jesus, will not have another opportunity after the rapture, yet for those who have not understood it, has not rejected Christ they will have an opportunity to be saved. The only thing is that in the tribulation, & even more so in the great tribulations, it will be a very tough hardship to be saved.

 

I should word that different, yet at the moment that's the best I can do.

 

The believers during that time will be persecuted beyond belief. Imagine a father & mother with child, & the only way they can obtain food, buy it, is by taking the mark of the beast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

2 Thessalonians 2:7 does not say it is the Holy Spirit who will be taken out of the way.  It could be a (super) angel as we see in Daniel 10. 

Oft repeated "assumptions" will not always prove the case.

 

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth  will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Actually, I agree. I don't see in scripture where it says that the job of the Spirit is to keep Satan from control-rather, He seals the believer, (something that will occur during the GT), He teaches, He brings things to our remembrance, and He comforts. It seems that Michael tends to be the one who disputes with the devil.

 

If there is no further opportunity for salvation during the tribulation, then who are the tribulation saints and why the need for 144,000 set apart Jewish converts to preach the Gospel after the rapture?

As well, why do we see some three times where the Bible laments that, despite all that happens, the people still refuse to repent? Why would that be mentioned, if there was no way they could repent?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Ian:

I believe that what is called the PTR is in fact the coming of Christ for resurrection & judgement, and that there will be no further opportunity for anyone to repent & be saved.

When Jesus returns, the "last/end times," aka the present Gospel age, will be over.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,

 

2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

 

If there is no further opportunity for salvation during the tribulation, then who are the tribulation saints and why the need for 144,000 set apart Jewish converts to preach the Gospel after the rapture?

 

A very good question that you should ask the Scriptures. Revelation was obviously written to its first readers, before the destruction prophesied by Jesus. See Rev. 11, which prophesies the end of the temple & Jerusalem. The 144,000 Jews were sealed & protected before the four winds (4 horsemen) were released. They had been warned by Jesus to flee the city before its destruction. (Mat. 24)

 

What is this "rapture." It is not taught in the Bible. We look for Jesus' return for resurrection & judgement. You are all reading in, rather than reading.

 

 

Mike:

As well, why do we see some three times where the Bible laments that, despite all that happens, the people still refuse to repent? Why would that be mentioned, if there was no way they could repent?

 

Only 3 times? The history of Israel throughout the OT is determined unrepentant godlessness. God is longsuffering, Of course they are called on to repent, & all who repented were saved. Those who did repent in the 40 years between Jesus' resurrection and his comin in the days of vengeance ultimately fled the city. Those who did not repent suffered in the destruction. Read Acts 7 for Israel's history. Hebrews repeats the warning. The 40 years was fast running out.

 

Heb. 3:But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

 

No. all the fantastic ideas put forward in these threads are the invention of those who read the Bible with dispensational blinders on. They reject the plain words of Scripture and claim a false "literal" reading that is carnal, not spiritual.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

When Jesus returns, the "last/end times," aka the present Gospel age, will be over.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,

 

2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

 

 

A very good question that you should ask the Scriptures. Revelation was obviously written to its first readers, before the destruction prophesied by Jesus. See Rev. 11, which prophesies the end of the temple & Jerusalem. The 144,000 Jews were sealed & protected before the four winds (4 horsemen) were released. They had been warned by Jesus to flee the city before its destruction. (Mat. 24)

 

What is this "rapture." It is not taught in the Bible. We look for Jesus' return for resurrection & judgement. You are all reading in, rather than reading.

 

 

Only 3 times? The history of Israel throughout the OT is determined unrepentant godlessness. God is longsuffering, Of course they are called on to repent, & all who repented were saved. Those who did repent in the 40 years between Jesus' resurrection and his comin in the days of vengeance ultimately fled the city. Those who did not repent suffered in the destruction. Read Acts 7 for Israel's history. Hebrews repeats the warning. The 40 years was fast running out.

 

Heb. 3:But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

 

No. all the fantastic ideas put forward in these threads are the invention of those who read the Bible with dispensational blinders on. They reject the plain words of Scripture and claim a false "literal" reading that is carnal, not spiritual.

 

covenanter,

 

Do you believe the mark of the beast has happened?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Tell me about it please.

These things prophesied in Revelation would occur during the time before the destruction. The precise nature is not recorded in Scripture, so we can either refer to secular historians, or trust God that those given the warnings recognised what was happening, and either suffered the consequences of their faithfulness, or fled the persecutions (as warned by Jesus) or denied their profession.

 

I expect Invicta will be able to give you the secular history. If you are really interested.

 

"Interpreting" Scripture by imposing computer technology was not possible to John's readers. The just had to read and apply his teaching in their immediate situation. Likewise they could calculate the mark of the beast using names and numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

These things prophesied in Revelation would occur during the time before the destruction. The precise nature is not recorded in Scripture, so we can either refer to secular historians, or trust God that those given the warnings recognised what was happening, and either suffered the consequences of their faithfulness, or fled the persecutions (as warned by Jesus) or denied their profession.

 

I expect Invicta will be able to give you the secular history. If you are really interested.

 

"Interpreting" Scripture by imposing computer technology was not possible to John's readers. The just had to read and apply his teaching in their immediate situation. Likewise they could calculate the mark of the beast using names and numbers.

 

The 7 years tribulations right after the rapture has nothing whatsoever to do with computers or technology, so leave that out, it has no place under this topic, that is exactly what has been taught since the beginning & its still the truth. In other words that is what God teaches us, that is what God inspired the writers of the Bible to write.

 

You have set under some bad teachers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Jerry, I meant they way people suggest bar coding or implanting chips as the mark.

 

We really don't know what exactly the mark will be, but there's no doubt God could for see the future & it could be something like you pointed out & or something we have not seen or heard of yet. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...