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Pre Tribulation Rapture Of The Church


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Pre Tribulation Rapture

           

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 

(((The church age saints will not go through the tribulation)))

 

4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

 

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

 

9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

 

11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

 

2 Peter 3:10-14

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

 

12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

(((Why)))

 

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

(((So)))

 

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

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(((The church age saints will not go through the tribulation)))

 

 

 

What world are you living in?

 

Have you ever read church history?  Have you ever read Foxe's Actes and Monuments, of the millions murdered in the most dreadful circumstances.  I recently received an email from an American missionary pastor in France where he said that a family from the Cenral African Republic in their church Had been reunited with their three children after seven years. On the day the children arrived in Paris in April, an Evangelical church in the town where the children had been living, was attacked and seven Christians were killed.  Would you like to go to the Central African Republic and tell those Christians that they are not going through tribulation?

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What world are you living in?

 

Have you ever read church history?  Have you ever read Foxe's Actes and Monuments, of the millions murdered in the most dreadful circumstances.  I recently received an email from an American missionary pastor in France where he said that a family from the Cenral African Republic in their church Had been reunited with their three children after seven years. On the day the children arrived in Paris in April, an Evangelical church in the town where the children had been living, was attacked and seven Christians were killed.  Would you like to go to the Central African Republic and tell those Christians that they are not going through tribulation?

 

People of every age and era suffer tribulation, and certainly will until the end of time (John 16:33).  However, what's being referred to in the OP is the Great Tribulation (Matt 24:21-22, 29; Mark 13:24) where the seals, trumpets and bowl judgements are poured out on the earth (Rev 5-10).

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(((The church age saints will not go through the tribulation)))

 

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 
Literally just as the Bible says will happen.
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People of every age and era suffer tribulation, and certainly will until the end of time (John 16:33).  However, what's being referred to in the OP is the Great Tribulation (Matt 24:21-22, 29; Mark 13:24) where the seals, trumpets and bowl judgements are poured out on the earth (Rev 5-10).

 

I cannot agree with you.  Great tribulation in the gospels refers to the tribulation on the Jews which began during the Roman war and continues today.  Great tribulation in Revelation refers to tribulation on the church by Rome pagan and Rome papal through the centuries.

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1 Thessalonians 4:13-17  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 
Literally just as the Bible says will happen.

 

 

I don't see you post has any relevance.

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I cannot agree with you.  Great tribulation in the gospels refers to the tribulation on the Jews which began during the Roman war and continues today.  Great tribulation in Revelation refers to tribulation on the church by Rome pagan and Rome papal through the centuries.

 

Agree to disagree I suppose.  The Great Tribulation is a worldwide event in which no flesh would survive if Jesus didn't return and is something so terrible that no one can fathom what it will be like (see Scripture quotes from previous post plus Daniel 12:1 and Jeremiah 30:7).  Last I checked (which was about 2 min ago) the world population has grown from 1 billion to 7 billion in the last two hundred years, holding steady at a 1.2% growth rate.  That doesn't sound like Tribulation-level death to me.  Also, when I consider the persecutions, genocides, an natural disasters that have happened over the course of history, I can't say that today is any worse than 1000 B.C.  I mean...there's no mass army banging down my door to kill my children like in Moses' day...I haven't seen numerous stars (meteors?) fall to the earth or the mountains and islands move as described in Revelation 6 which describes the beginning of the Great Tribulation.  You really have to take a strong allegorical approach to Scripture to come away with the notion that we're living in the Great Tribulation.  I take a plain reading myself.

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Agree to disagree I suppose.  The Great Tribulation is a worldwide event in which no flesh would survive if Jesus didn't return and is something so terrible that no one can fathom what it will be like (see Scripture quotes from previous post plus Daniel 12:1 and Jeremiah 30:7).  Last I checked (which was about 2 min ago) the world population has grown from 1 billion to 7 billion in the last two hundred years, holding steady at a 1.2% growth rate.  That doesn't sound like Tribulation-level death to me.  Also, when I consider the persecutions, genocides, an natural disasters that have happened over the course of history, I can't say that today is any worse than 1000 B.C.  I mean...there's no mass army banging down my door to kill my children like in Moses' day...I haven't seen numerous stars (meteors?) fall to the earth or the mountains and islands move as described in Revelation 6 which describes the beginning of the Great Tribulation.  You really have to take a strong allegorical approach to Scripture to come away with the notion that we're living in the Great Tribulation.  I take a plain reading myself.

 

It is the whole preterist argument reemerging. I have read with an open mind the postings (maybe all of them on here supporting that view) and can't for the life of me fathom how these obviously learned and intelligent preterist brethren (forum members here) can buy into it.

 

I am no rocket surgeon, but am of reasonable intelligence and the mechanics simply do not add up even remotely.

 

Anyway, I SAY it before and I will SAID it again: if our preterist brethren want to stay after the rapture, have at it, but I am going...PERIOD.

 

Hope you have been watching all the discovery channel "survivalist, build your own bunker" type shows cause you fellas are going to need that info badly.

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The man who lead my father to Christ was a primitive Baptist. He believed Jesus literally spoke in Olde English and was a preterist. When my dad presented him with Biblical evidence for a pre-tribulation rapture he simply said, "look, I'm a simple man. This is what my daddy's daddy taught him, it's what my daddy taught me and that's what I was raised to believe". I've yet to meet a preterist who actually offers any sort of proof text for their eschatalogical viewpoint. 

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Re 9:13 ¶ And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
Re 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Re 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Re 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Re 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Re 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Re 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
Re 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Re 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
 
That has no happened yet, but it will happen in the future, after the rapture, its call the Tribulation, & the 2nd half of the 3 & 1/2 years will be very bad, & nothing like it has ever happened before man's eyes.
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I think if more Christians would study the book of Revelation and try and visualize what the tribulation will be like, we would be all the more on fire for witnessing to the lost. I cannot even begin to comprehend the horror and devastation those people will face. When I think of just the chaos that will ensue the moment the rapture takes place. Pregnant women suddenly with empty wombs. Unmanned vehicles with lost passengers still on board. Doctors gone missing in the middle of a life-saving surgery. The death toll of that alone should be catastrophic. Then the emotional fallout once people try and sort out what happened. Then, of course, the reign of the antichrist and all of the catastrophic events that will take place during that time. It will be so awful.

Edited by JimsHelpmeet
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From the "Israel Today" thread, page 3.

 

 

So we have passed the time of trouble, what, 2,000 years ago, but have not yet entered into the NH&NE? Just making sure I understand what you are saying. If I am mistaken, please let me know.

 

 

Yes. The "great tribulation" was suffered by the generation that rejected its Messiah. That, of course is not the end of all tribulation. Believers suffer tribulation from unbelievers - as Jesus warned in John 16, & Paul also warned.

 

The tribulation & trials suffered by believers is not due to God's wrath - that is reserved for the ungodly. Note the way Paul carefully explains in 2 Thes.  Believers suffer persecution, but the persecutors suffer everlasting destruction.

1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

That persecution/tribulation suffered by believers is NOT the wrath of God. We are saved - we will not suffer wrath.

1 Thes. 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

 

Note how Paul refers to the judgment of the Jews who rejected their Messiah, & the Gospel:

1 Thes. 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

 

I have often seen 1 T 1:10 used as a proof text that believers will not suffer in the great tribulation, because they are delivered us from the wrath to come (which is wrong equated to the great tribulation) by the supposed rapture. No. We are delivered from wrath by the cross. 

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