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Standing Firm In Christ

Refuting The April 2009 Baptist Challenge...

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Financial account really should be in other hands, IMO. I do commend you for letting the congregation in on decisions regarding the Church.

 

I agree, i do not want to carry the purse. Yet there's many churches where the pastor does & control everything, even his salary. Over in another group of Baptist there were some pastors that said, "It none of the members business how much I get paid, nor how I spend the money." There were many that disagreed.

 

I fail to see how church members can put up with such a person. Yet I know there's people that wants to attend church & they want to pay someone to take care of everything so that they can come in, stay the length of time they chose, them leave leaving everything behind.

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All tither's misunderstand what God's tithe was and assume (usually because of being lied to) that They are supposed to tithe their money to the Church.

 

I have no misunderstandings at all about the tithe. I understand it perfectly. I am not "supposed" to do anything but give the Lord my best in every area of life. My thought life, my work life, my marriage life, my financial life. All of it. Paul said I should abound in this grace also. I would hope that I can do more than I did at other times in my life. But if I cannot, the Lord has said that I should do what I can.

I understand the tithe. I understand grace. There is no contradiction between the two., If I do tithe it´s not to keep the law or because I am scared that God is "gonna get me". I have heard that complaint for 25 years but have never once ever heard it from a pulpit. Maybe you should stop going to light bread Baptist churches and find you a Bible Believers Baptist church.

I have never heard any pastor I know teach that if one does not tithe then he is a thief. But I was taught to tithe trusting God to provide my needs, I was taught to give to Faith Promise and I have taught it to others (I know you don´t like either, that is your problem, not mine) and I have never been the poorer for it.

I have heard folks say that they heard of Christians going into bankruptcy for tithing. I call hogwash on that. If they went into bankruptcy it didn´t have anything do with giving money to God´s work.

 

I will repeat what I said before. I purpose in my heart to give a tithe of what the Lord has blessed me with financially. What´s it to you?

 

God bless,

calvary

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I agree, i do not want to carry the purse. Yet there's many churches where the pastor does & control everything, even his salary. Over in another group of Baptist there were some pastors that said, "It none of the members business how much I get paid, nor how I spend the money." There were many that disagreed.

 

I fail to see how church members can put up with such a person. Yet I know there's people that wants to attend church & they want to pay someone to take care of everything so that they can come in, stay the length of time they chose, them leave leaving everything behind.

On the flip side, I personally know a pastor who took control over his salary by shooting down 3 pay raises the church wanted to give him (2 were negotiated to half of the church's intent, one he held firm on a total refusal) saying the church had more pressing needs at that time.

 

2 years later it became evident he was right.

 

 

 

I, unfortunately, end up balancing the church books because our treasurer is constantly mis-entering or failing to enter things either in the register or on the ledger.

 

Replace the treasurer?  Nobody is willing to take the responsibility, some of our people are so inept that they can't manage their own finances (1 can't even keep a checking account because within 6 months he's bouncing checks), and I REFUSE to take over the money management.

 

So, I do damage control (nope, the treasurer isn't taking funds on the sly -- he's just unbelievably careless) to catch the mistakes before they can result in damage.

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I have no misunderstandings at all about the tithe. I understand it perfectly. I am not "supposed" to do anything but give the Lord my best in every area of life. My thought life, my work life, my marriage life, my financial life. All of it. Paul said I should abound in this grace also. I would hope that I can do more than I did at other times in my life. But if I cannot, the Lord has said that I should do what I can.
I understand the tithe. I understand grace. There is no contradiction between the two., If I do tithe it´s not to keep the law or because I am scared that God is "gonna get me". I have heard that complaint for 25 years but have never once ever heard it from a pulpit. Maybe you should stop going to light bread Baptist churches and find you a Bible Believers Baptist church.
I have never heard any pastor I know teach that if one does not tithe then he is a thief. But I was taught to tithe trusting God to provide my needs, I was taught to give to Faith Promise and I have taught it to others (I know you don´t like either, that is your problem, not mine) and I have never been the poorer for it.
I have heard folks say that they heard of Christians going into bankruptcy for tithing. I call hogwash on that. If they went into bankruptcy it didn´t have anything do with giving money to God´s work.

I will repeat what I said before. I purpose in my heart to give a tithe of what the Lord has blessed me with financially. What´s it to you?

God bless,
calvary

nothing wrong with giving ten percent of one's finances, if they chose to do that of their own accord.

But,... If they are giving because The Lord told me to give 10%" they are mistaken and giving for the wrong reason. God is not going to contradict His Word, and man should not contradict it either.

You say you tithe because you were taught to tithe. Whoever taught you to tithe did not understand God's tithe.

God's Word tells us to give as we purpose in our own hearts to give. That means WE choose what we will give, God will not tell us what amount, Otherwise our giving is of compulsion.

Further, you can call your ten percent the Lord's tithe from now until the Rapture, it is still not the Lord's tithe. God defined what His tithe consists of and to say His tithe is anything else than what He said is to not only contradict Him, but to add to His Word.

Ten percent of one's money is not the Lord's tithe. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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On the flip side, I personally know a pastor who took control over his salary by shooting down 3 pay raises the church wanted to give him (2 were negotiated to half of the church's intent, one he held firm on a total refusal) saying the church had more pressing needs at that time.

 

2 years later it became evident he was right.

 

 

 

I, unfortunately, end up balancing the church books because our treasurer is constantly mis-entering or failing to enter things either in the register or on the ledger.

 

Replace the treasurer?  Nobody is willing to take the responsibility, some of our people are so inept that they can't manage their own finances (1 can't even keep a checking account because within 6 months he's bouncing checks), and I REFUSE to take over the money management.

 

So, I do damage control (nope, the treasurer isn't taking funds on the sly -- he's just unbelievably careless) to catch the mistakes before they can result in damage.

 

Most always there's a flip side to anything, but because there is, & because it worked out well, does not mean its the right way nor does it mean its God's way.

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Most always there's a flip side to anything, but because there is, & because it worked out well, does not mean its the right way nor does it mean its God's way.

One of us is misunderstanding the other (I'm not sure which). I didn't say he handles the money, I said he refused to allow them to give him the amount of raise they were pushing for -- are you saying that he should not have limited his salary?

 

In the 2nd incident (mine), I refuse to handle the money (ie. don't count money, don't make deposits, don't write checks, don't pay bills, don't track who gives), but balance the figures each monthly bank statement and point out the discrepancies because before I started doing that there was consistently a major difference between what the ledger said, the checkbook register said, and what the bank said. And that's not because I want to but due to no other recourse available.

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May be wise to seek another treasurer. If he constantly makes mistakes, and shows no improvement, wisdom would say he is not qualified to handle the job.

Agreed but as I stated NO ONE is willing and several are totally incapable even to the point of not being able to maintain a checking account of their own without overdrawing in less than a year. Won't put my son in the position, only have 17 members total. That's why I only look for any errors and exercise MUCH forbearance.

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While I said earlier that pastors should not be handling the finances, I can see the seriousness of the situation. A pastor should steer away from the financial management of his Church Body, yet you are forced to take measures. Is there a possibility of the Church sending the treasurer through a financial management class?

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One of us is misunderstanding the other (I'm not sure which). I didn't say he handles the money, I said he refused to allow them to give him the amount of raise they were pushing for -- are you saying that he should not have limited his salary?

 

In the 2nd incident (mine), I refuse to handle the money (ie. don't count money, don't make deposits, don't write checks, don't pay bills, don't track who gives), but balance the figures each monthly bank statement and point out the discrepancies because before I started doing that there was consistently a major difference between what the ledger said, the checkbook register said, and what the bank said. And that's not because I want to but due to no other recourse available.

 

No problem.

 

But there is a flip side for many things & people will use it to try to prove, it seems, that there's other ways besides God's way that are OK.

 

For instants, I firmly believe the Bible teaches us that a believer is not suppose to marry & unbeliever. I've stated that before with someone saying, well I did, & it worked out quite well, so that's not true.

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No problem.

 

But there is a flip side for many things & people will use it to try to prove, it seems, that there's other ways besides God's way that are OK.

 

For instants, I firmly believe the Bible teaches us that a believer is not suppose to marry & unbeliever. I've stated that before with someone saying, well I did, & it worked out quite well, so that's not true.

Agreed, but neither of these cases has the preacher touching the money in any form. Case #2 is looking at figures to make sure everything balances and showing the treasurer any entry mistakes made (number transposition being most common) and wanting out of that. That one is the only real problem situation of the two.

 

 I don't see where they can be any complaint over Case #1 -- the church said "let's increase the pastor's salary" and the pastor responded "whoa, I'll manage on what I currently make, the church has more pressing  needs right now".

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My come back, "No Problem," meant I full understood the situation you spoke of.

 

I've know several pastors that refuse an increase, of course if they pay to much, its quite easy to give it right back to the church. & I know one that did that for over 1 year. I really do not know if anyone else in our church knew that he was doing that.

 

There are situation where the pastor may have to, we can get into some pretty tough situations while having to take up the slack, yet in such a situation it would be very wise to have at least one member do the counting with him while all member knows how all money is spent. 

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nothing wrong with giving ten percent of one's finances, if they chose to do that of their own accord.

 

So why say anything further??

But,... If they are giving because The Lord told me to give 10%" they are mistaken and giving for the wrong reason. God is not going to contradict His Word, and man should not contradict it either.

 

I wasn´t talking about any "they"... I was speaking for myself. Yet still you cavil.

You say you tithe because you were taught to tithe. Whoever taught you to tithe did not understand God's tithe.

 

I say tithe because it´s a mathematical calculation. Where did I say someone taught me to tithe? You are contentious for no cause.

God's Word tells us to give as we purpose in our own hearts to give. That means WE choose what we will give, God will not tell us what amount, Otherwise our giving is of compulsion.

 

I believe I was pretty clear on what I purpose to do with my money, yet still you find reason to fault, argue, debate...!! My question was... What it is to you?

Further, you can call your ten percent the Lord's tithe from now until the Rapture, it is still not the Lord's tithe. God defined what His tithe consists of and to say His tithe is anything else than what He said is to not only contradict Him, but to add to His Word.

 

I never used that phrase. Why do you argue straw men against me? I simply stated what I have purposed to do in my heart, yet still you rail...

Ten percent of one's money is not the Lord's tithe.

 

Who said it was?? Ohh.... Not me. You did.

 

God bless,

calvary

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Financial account really should be in other hands, IMO. I do commend you for letting the congregation in on decisions regarding the Church.

I would like to not be the holder of the purse, unfortunately, there is no one else I can trust with it.

 

Now, before you misunderstand, let me explain: Of the few people we have, about 1/4 are, how shall I say it, damaged. By damaged, I mean they aren't capable of handling money for the church. Mentally. They aren't stupid, just...not capable. The ones who are, well, normal, most basically have chosen not to actually formally join the church. Not sure why-people just don't like to join churches. Some have attended for years, at least one is actively involved in the services, they just have not taken that step. Some others refuse to work with banks.

When I was first here, for about the first five years, we had a lady who took care of the finances, but she neer liked doing it, and as soon as she had the chance, she turned it over to me. So, honestly, at this point, there is just no one else to do it.

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I would like to not be the holder of the purse, unfortunately, there is no one else I can trust with it.
 
Now, before you misunderstand, let me explain: Of the few people we have, about 1/4 are, how shall I say it, damaged. By damaged, I mean they aren't capable of handling money for the church. Mentally. They aren't stupid, just...not capable. The ones who are, well, normal, most basically have chosen not to actually formally join the church. Not sure why-people just don't like to join churches. Some have attended for years, at least one is actively involved in the services, they just have not taken that step. Some others refuse to work with banks.
When I was first here, for about the first five years, we had a lady who took care of the finances, but she neer liked doing it, and as soon as she had the chance, she turned it over to me. So, honestly, at this point, there is just no one else to do it.

understood. Between rock and hard place there.

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You say you were taught to tithe, and then turn around and say no one taught you to tithe. Sound confusing. You had to have been taught this "mathematical formula" somewhere. It certainly was not God's Word that taught you, for it teaches the tithe was abolished along with all the other ordinances written in the Law.

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You say you were taught to tithe, and then turn around and say no one taught you to tithe. Sound confusing. You had to have been taught this "mathematical formula" somewhere. It certainly was not God's Word that taught you, for it teaches the tithe was abolished along with all the other ordinances written in the Law.

You are confused, and are an angry man. You debate where there is none. You harangue when all concede, you seem (to me) a contentious fellow. Unless you know my heart why do you still find fault. You insist that a man purpose in his heart and when I do, you yet find fault. You are never satisfied.

 

I was taught by the scriptures about giving. After having reward that blessed book some 40 times from cover to cover I have yet to find anywhere where my giving should be a 5th part. A 3rd part or an 8th part.

 

My calculations come from reading about a tenth part (a tenth part of whatever, doesn´t matter, I never read anything about a 6th part, have you??). The Bible mentions the word tithe some 14 times. And it doesn´t limit the tithe to just the priesthood as you have falsely stated. All the children of Israel were given to a tithe. It was of ALL THE INCREASE.

God´s principles are eternal. He told me to give. He told me to give generously, with a cheerful heart. He told me to bring the missionary forward on his journey. He told that a leader of the church could expect a to be sustained by said church.  If you didn´t, well good for you, but you seem more a braggart on that then a humble servant. After having prayerfully reading and searching for the Lord´s will for me on this I determined in my heart I would start with what the Bible only mentioned ever. A tithe. You have a problem with whatever folks do. Perhaps because you fail to grow and abound in this grace also you are smitten in your heart that God´s children happily give of their goods, while you slink and slither over what a child of God cheerfully does for His work. Who are you to judge another man´s servant. I will stand or fall on my own relation to God, not your caviling and high mindedness.

 

Good day sir.

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Was lying abolished in the ordinances? Was adultery? Was honoring your mother and father. That argument is so pathetic that I can´t believe you trot it out here for real Bible believers to assay.

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Calvary,

The increase is explained as being food. Not everything, despite your claim. Read the book cover to cover forty times, eh? Seems you would see that the tithe was limited to Isreal only, that the first tithe once a year was given to the Levites, who took a tithe of that to the priests. Both Leviticus 27 and 2 Chronicles 31 reveal to the reader the this tithe was food.. The festival tithe was eaten by the Levite, the tither and his family. Since it was eaten, one can only conclude that it, like the Levitical tithe, was only food. The poor tithe was kept on the tither's property to feed the poor of Israel and the foreigner visiting the city... Again, only food. How one can read the Word of God cover to cover forty times and come to a conclusion that the Lord's tithes were of non-food products is beyond me.

That tithe you say the Bible taught you nowhere resembles the tithe taught in the Bible. Rather, it was invented behind the walls of the Roman Catholic system.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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Calvary,

The increase is explained as being food. Not everything, despite your claim.

I think it involved a little more than just food.

 

Numbers 18

 

[8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.
[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: every oblation of theirs, every meat offering of theirs, and every sin offering of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.
[10] In the most holy place shalt thou eat it; every male shall eat it: it shall be holy unto thee.
[11] And this is thine; the heave offering of their gift, with all the wave offerings of the children of Israel: I have given them unto thee, and to thy sons and to thy daughters with thee, by a statute for ever: every one that is clean in thy house shall eat of it.
[12] All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the firstfruits of them which they shall offer unto the LORD, them have I given thee.
[13] And whatsoever is first ripe in the land, which they shall bring unto the LORD, shall be thine; every one that is clean in thine house shall eat of it.
[14] Every thing devoted in Israel shall be thine.
[15] Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem.
[16] And those that are to be redeemed from a month old shalt thou redeem, according to thine estimation, for the money of five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, which is twenty gerahs.
[17] But the firstling of a cow, or the firstling of a sheep, or the firstling of a goat, thou shalt not redeem; they are holy: thou shalt sprinkle their blood upon the altar, and shalt burn their fat for an offering made by fire, for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
[18] And the flesh of them shall be thine, as the wave breast and as the right shoulder are thine.
[19] All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer unto the LORD, have I given thee, and thy sons and thy daughters with thee, by a statute for ever: it is a covenant of salt for ever before the LORD unto thee and to thy seed with thee.
[20] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel.
[21] And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

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I think it involved a little more than just food.

 

Numbers 18

 

[8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.
[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: every oblation of theirs, every meat offering of theirs, and every sin offering of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.
[10] In the most holy place shalt thou eat it; every male shall eat it: it shall be holy unto thee.
[11] And this is thine; the heave offering of their gift, with all the wave offerings of the children of Israel: I have given them unto thee, and to thy sons and to thy daughters with thee, by a statute for ever: every one that is clean in thy house shall eat of it.
[12] All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the firstfruits of them which they shall offer unto the LORD, them have I given thee.
[13] And whatsoever is first ripe in the land, which they shall bring unto the LORD, shall be thine; every one that is clean in thine house shall eat of it.
[14] Every thing devoted in Israel shall be thine.
[15] Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem.
[16] And those that are to be redeemed from a month old shalt thou redeem, according to thine estimation, for the money of five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, which is twenty gerahs.
[17] But the firstling of a cow, or the firstling of a sheep, or the firstling of a goat, thou shalt not redeem; they are holy: thou shalt sprinkle their blood upon the altar, and shalt burn their fat for an offering made by fire, for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
[18] And the flesh of them shall be thine, as the wave breast and as the right shoulder are thine.
[19] All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer unto the LORD, have I given thee, and thy sons and thy daughters with thee, by a statute for ever: it is a covenant of salt for ever before the LORD unto thee and to thy seed with thee.
[20] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel.
[21] And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

 

 

Oh I have no doubt that it involved a little more than food. This man is  falling down in opinions, not standing in Christ. His ilk are always the same. They never answer a a questions straight up. I asked if the big three were abolished and he clammed up. Just like I knew he would. So according to his logic, we can lie, rob and cheat on our wives, it´s all good, those ordinances were abolished don´t ya know!!

 

God bless,

calvary

 

PS.

I am shocked that the majority of you as well clam up under this yokels hog wash. It´s truly disappointing.

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Think again...

Leviticus 27:30-33 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

The phrase "whether of" occurs only five times in the KJV.  In each of those instances it is used, all that it is speaking of is revealed to the reader.

Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.

Matthew 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Matthew 27:21 The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.

Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree,... every tenth animal that passeth under the rod.
Whether of the tw
Whether of sin unto death or of obedience unto righteousness. 

The phrase "whether of" is clearly explained in each instance.


Further...

2 Chronicles clearly shows that the tithe taken to the Levites was food.

2 Chronicles 31:10 And Azariah the chief priest of the house of Zadok answered him, and said, Since the people began to bring the offerings into the house of the LORD, we have had enough to eat, and have left plenty: for the LORD hath blessed his people; and that which is left is this great store.

What was left in heaps was what could be eaten. 

And Malachi reveals that the tithe was food as well

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

You'll not find one verse in the entire Bible where money is referred to as "meat." 

Sorry, ASoD, but you can't find anything other than food tithed in the Mosaic Law.

To argue that Numbers 18:1-20 is speaking of tithing is easily proven to be false by verse 15.  Every thing that opens the matrix is to be tithed?  That would mean humans were tithed, since they are born via the opening of the matrix. 

Nice try, but it fails miserably.

 

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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Sorry, ASoD, but you can't find anything other than food tithed in the Mosaic Law.

To argue that Numbers 18:1-20 is speaking of tithing is easily proven to be false by verse 15.  Every thing that opens the matrix is to be tithed?  That would mean humans were tithed, since they are born via the opening of the matrix. 

Nice try, but it fails miserably.

 

Yes, humans were tithed then redeemed. It's clear from Numbers 18:15 that this was the case. 

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      It the command is not in the Bible, we can come to no other conclusion than that it is a man-made command and not a God-ordained directive.

      Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

      Jesus Christ said of the Pharisees that their worship was in vain because of their teaching commandments of man as if they were of God. When we teach that God requires something today, we'd best have Scripture to support our teaching. Otherwise, we are as guilty as the Pharisees in Matthew 15.

      Friends, be as the Bereans in Acts 17:11. Search the Scriptures to see if what I have written is in agreement with the Word of God. If you do a diligent study, you will find it is absolutely 100% in agreement. You will find that the one you are being OBedient to by tithing your money is not God at all. Rather, it is OBedience to a lie and is contrary to the decision of the Holy Ghost and the Apostles.

      Acts 17:11 These were more nOBle than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
    • By Standing Firm In Christ
      Many today, in their zeal to defend the doctrine of a monetary tithe requirement, will cite 1 Corinthians 16:2, saying that the word “prospered” is speaking of “proportion,” or “percentage.” It is not.

      1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

      The word “prospered” is translated from the Greek word “euodoo”, which means, “to help on the road, i.e. (passively) succeed in reaching; figuratively, to succeed in business affairs:–(have a) prosper(-ous journey).”

      euodoo was never translated as proportion in the Bible. The word used by the Greeks for “proportion” was the word “analogia”. Found only in one verse of the New Testament.

      Romans 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

      Back to 1 Corinthians 16:2. That verse was not speaking of proportion or percentage. It was speaking of prosperity. As God had made them prosperous in life, Paul encouraged the saints at Corinth to help the poor saints in Jerusalem. But percentage was never mentioned. God leaves the amount given up to the giver…

      2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

      “Purposeth”– “proaireomai”– “to choose for oneself.”

      Not only was Paul not speaking of percentage or proportion, Paul also was not speaking of tithes. Rather, he was speaking of a collection (Grk. logia) for the saints at Jerusalem.

      1 Corinthians 16:1-4 Now concerning the collection (logia) for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings (logia) when I come. And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.

      The Greek word for “collection” was the word “logia.” Again, nothing to do with tithes. Had Paul been speaking of tithes, he would have used the word “apodekatoo.” Paul did not use the Greek for “tithes” in any of his epistles. The collection in 1 Corinthians 16 was to be freely given (not of coercion) to ease burdened saints in Jerusalem.
    • By Standing Firm In Christ
      Suppose you are a young adult male who works for a company that has a CEO and a superintendent over you.
      One day, the CEO tells you that you are no longer to come to work on Tuesdays; that only females are allowed to work that day.
      Later that day, the superintendent calls you into his office and tells you you are expected to work for four hours every Tuesday.

      Who do you OBey? Would you not go to the CEO to get the confusion straightened out?

      Well, look at God as the CEO and the pastor as the Superintendent. God's Word says that His tithe is to go to Jerusalem. He gives no other location that it must go. He also says it is to be agricultural in nature. He gives no other options.

      The pastor says, "Tithe to the Church where you are fed," and "Tithe money."

      Uh-oh... conflict of interest. LOL

      So what do we do? We go to God for the answer. We ought to OBey God rather than men. So if we are going to tithe. it's best to do it in the manner that God prescribed, is it not? Otherwise, it is not OBedience to God, it is OBedience to man who is teaching something contradictory to what God says.

      Thankfully, God does not hold us to the Law of the tithe. In Romans 7 we are told that if the saved go to the house of the Law, it is an act of adultery. Let us strive to be faithful to Christ and not be guilty of going to the house of the Law while married to the One who was raised from the dead. RWR
    • By Standing Firm In Christ
      Malachi 3:8-12 Will a man rOB God? Yet ye have rOBbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we rOBbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have rOBbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts. And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

      Many a pastor stands behind his pulpit and reads the above verses to their congregations. Some with an honest heart, some with a dishonest heart.

      It is those with the dishonest hearts that this message is for today.

      In his epistle to the churches at Galatia, the Apostle Paul warned the saints of the penalty for following after the works of the flesh:

      Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

      The word “witchcraft” in verse 20 of the passage above is translated from the Greek word “pharmakeia.” It is where we get our word “pharmacy” from.

      The interliner defines “pharmakeia” in four ways:
      1. the use or the administering of drugs
      2. poisoning
      3. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
      4. metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

      I do not believe that Paul is condemning all uses of “drugs” per se. Rather, he is speaking of one who addicts oneself to the use of drugs simply for the purpose of escape from reality…. mind control. But mind control and drugs are not what my message tonight is about. Nor is it about a physical poisoning, nor of witchcraft in the sense of amulets and charms to ward off certain things.

      Tonight’s message is about deception and seduction, the fourth definition in the list I have provided above.

      In the first two paragraphs of this message, I said that some pastors read Malachi 3:8-12 with a dishonest heart. It is those pastors that are guilty of a form of witchcraft; specifically, deception and seduction

      They are deceptive, in that Malachi 3 is not speaking about tithes of money. God ‘s instruction to Malachi was speaking of a tithe of food; i.e., crops and livestock. This can be easily seen when one examines the passage and then allows Scripture to interpret Scripture.

      “Bring ye all the tithes”

      All the what?

      “All the tithes”

      What tithes? What is God speaking of when He says “All the tithes”? If I were to just read Malachi 3:10, and that verse alone, I would have absolutely no clue as to what tithes God is speaking of. Well, maybe a hint is seen in the word “Meat” in verse 10, but just looking at the beginning of the verse and not reading the whole verse would certainly leave one scratching one’s head.

      What tithes am I supposed to bring? Thankfully, God did not leave us hanging. Rather, He gave us the answer when He continued “that there may be meat in mine house.”

      Now, as I said, many pastors have an honest heart. Many will tell their congregations that the word “MEAT” in verse 10 is referring to food. Conversely, many pastors are deceptive and teach their congregations that Malachi 3:8-12 is speaking of money being the titheable item that God demands.

      Further, those same teachers and preachers that teach that Malachi 3:8-10 is speaking of a monetary tithe also teach that if the church member will tithe his or her money, God promises to open the windows and pour out a blessing upon them.

      There, the minister is using both deception and seduction in order to cause his flock to put 10% of their hard-earned money into a white envelope and subsequently into the coffers of the church they attend. He first deceives them into believing that a command given to ancient Israel is also meant for the Church. Secondly, he deceives them into believing the command is for monetary tithes when the Law specifically stated that the tithes were to be agricultural in nature. And lastly, he seduces them into believing they are going to be blessed by God if they “OBey” his command to tithe.

      Another deception put forth by the pastor is manifest when the pastor says that “to the storehouse” means “to the Church.” Friends, the storehouse that God was speaking of in the Malachi passage was not the Church… it was a storehouse within the Temple at Jersualem. God never moved that storehouse to any location. Nor did He give Gentile Churches authority to set up their own “storehouses” all over the world. There is not one instance in the post-crucifixion epistles that instruct Bishops, Elders or Pastors to set up storehouses and require monetary tithes of their flocks.

      Do not be deceived. Open your Bibles and study out the passages on tithing. When you do, you will find that the pastor that told you to “bring the tithes of money as commanded by God” was deceiving you and seducing you with promises that God never gave to you.

      In reality, God isn’t demanding the tithe of the church member. The deceptive and seductive leader is.
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