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Refuting The April 2009 Baptist Challenge...


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He had a bad experience with deacons and is determined to not let that happen again?

 

Many years ago I had a bad experience with work and still work.

 

Kinda like the excuse "I was made to go to church all the time as a kid and that's why I don't go know", well I was made to brush my teeth and still do it.

 

I know a pastor who says you should never get too close to church members because you might get hurt, I told him that's why you should never have kids, have friends, or even go through life -- you WILL get hurt.

 

 

Makes you want to do what my oldest grandson did about 8 years ago -- he slapped his forehead, threw his head back and said "Oh, I'm surrounded by idiots"

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A comment about Jesus' earthly ministry

 

Mt 10:5 ¶ These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
 
Mt 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
 
Its true in the 1st part of His ministry they were ministering only to the house of Israel. Yet His own.
 
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
 
And thus the gates were open to all gentiles, & thus much of the new Testament Teaching are directly to whosoever will, & that which is not still applies to all of us.
 
I'm always amazed at those who says so much of the Bible does not apply to us at all, they're mislead to the extreme.
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That reminded me of a Pastor in Tennessee who would not have a Communion Service.  His reason?  He said he knew his members and he was afraid all of them would drop dead if they partook of the Communion.

A pastor should not be dictator.  Nor should he handle all matters of the Church.  According to Acts, deacons are necessary in any Church.  They are to wait tables; i.e., see to the material needs of the Church.  A pastor doesn't should not be the one handling the money.  If there is no one qualified to be a Treasurer, then don't take collections... simple as that.  Paul said in his epistle to the Church at Corinth that would not take payment for preaching the Gospel, lest the Gospel be hindered.

Now, the pastor you mentioned may not be giving himself a salary, or he may.  Regardless, someone else should be the one handling the money so as not to hinder the Gospel.

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I admit that my wife and I handle pretty much all the church business. However, that doesn't mean they aren't involved-I don't make decisions about church business without bringing it before the church. For instance, we have had juniper bushes out in front of the church since I came here, but I wanted to take them out, especially since the roots are messing up the lines to the septic tank. So I brought it to the church, sought their thoughts on it, and what to do with the space, now empty. As a church, we decided to replace them with garden boxes, wherein will be some flowers, as well as tomatoes, so everyone can enjoy both the looks and the maters!

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Financial account really should be in other hands, IMO. I do commend you for letting the congregation in on decisions regarding the Church.

 

I agree, i do not want to carry the purse. Yet there's many churches where the pastor does & control everything, even his salary. Over in another group of Baptist there were some pastors that said, "It none of the members business how much I get paid, nor how I spend the money." There were many that disagreed.

 

I fail to see how church members can put up with such a person. Yet I know there's people that wants to attend church & they want to pay someone to take care of everything so that they can come in, stay the length of time they chose, them leave leaving everything behind.

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All tither's misunderstand what God's tithe was and assume (usually because of being lied to) that They are supposed to tithe their money to the Church.

 

I have no misunderstandings at all about the tithe. I understand it perfectly. I am not "supposed" to do anything but give the Lord my best in every area of life. My thought life, my work life, my marriage life, my financial life. All of it. Paul said I should abound in this grace also. I would hope that I can do more than I did at other times in my life. But if I cannot, the Lord has said that I should do what I can.

I understand the tithe. I understand grace. There is no contradiction between the two., If I do tithe it´s not to keep the law or because I am scared that God is "gonna get me". I have heard that complaint for 25 years but have never once ever heard it from a pulpit. Maybe you should stop going to light bread Baptist churches and find you a Bible Believers Baptist church.

I have never heard any pastor I know teach that if one does not tithe then he is a thief. But I was taught to tithe trusting God to provide my needs, I was taught to give to Faith Promise and I have taught it to others (I know you don´t like either, that is your problem, not mine) and I have never been the poorer for it.

I have heard folks say that they heard of Christians going into bankruptcy for tithing. I call hogwash on that. If they went into bankruptcy it didn´t have anything do with giving money to God´s work.

 

I will repeat what I said before. I purpose in my heart to give a tithe of what the Lord has blessed me with financially. What´s it to you?

 

God bless,

calvary

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I agree, i do not want to carry the purse. Yet there's many churches where the pastor does & control everything, even his salary. Over in another group of Baptist there were some pastors that said, "It none of the members business how much I get paid, nor how I spend the money." There were many that disagreed.

 

I fail to see how church members can put up with such a person. Yet I know there's people that wants to attend church & they want to pay someone to take care of everything so that they can come in, stay the length of time they chose, them leave leaving everything behind.

On the flip side, I personally know a pastor who took control over his salary by shooting down 3 pay raises the church wanted to give him (2 were negotiated to half of the church's intent, one he held firm on a total refusal) saying the church had more pressing needs at that time.

 

2 years later it became evident he was right.

 

 

 

I, unfortunately, end up balancing the church books because our treasurer is constantly mis-entering or failing to enter things either in the register or on the ledger.

 

Replace the treasurer?  Nobody is willing to take the responsibility, some of our people are so inept that they can't manage their own finances (1 can't even keep a checking account because within 6 months he's bouncing checks), and I REFUSE to take over the money management.

 

So, I do damage control (nope, the treasurer isn't taking funds on the sly -- he's just unbelievably careless) to catch the mistakes before they can result in damage.

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I have no misunderstandings at all about the tithe. I understand it perfectly. I am not "supposed" to do anything but give the Lord my best in every area of life. My thought life, my work life, my marriage life, my financial life. All of it. Paul said I should abound in this grace also. I would hope that I can do more than I did at other times in my life. But if I cannot, the Lord has said that I should do what I can.
I understand the tithe. I understand grace. There is no contradiction between the two., If I do tithe it´s not to keep the law or because I am scared that God is "gonna get me". I have heard that complaint for 25 years but have never once ever heard it from a pulpit. Maybe you should stop going to light bread Baptist churches and find you a Bible Believers Baptist church.
I have never heard any pastor I know teach that if one does not tithe then he is a thief. But I was taught to tithe trusting God to provide my needs, I was taught to give to Faith Promise and I have taught it to others (I know you don´t like either, that is your problem, not mine) and I have never been the poorer for it.
I have heard folks say that they heard of Christians going into bankruptcy for tithing. I call hogwash on that. If they went into bankruptcy it didn´t have anything do with giving money to God´s work.

I will repeat what I said before. I purpose in my heart to give a tithe of what the Lord has blessed me with financially. What´s it to you?

God bless,
calvary

nothing wrong with giving ten percent of one's finances, if they chose to do that of their own accord.

But,... If they are giving because The Lord told me to give 10%" they are mistaken and giving for the wrong reason. God is not going to contradict His Word, and man should not contradict it either.

You say you tithe because you were taught to tithe. Whoever taught you to tithe did not understand God's tithe.

God's Word tells us to give as we purpose in our own hearts to give. That means WE choose what we will give, God will not tell us what amount, Otherwise our giving is of compulsion.

Further, you can call your ten percent the Lord's tithe from now until the Rapture, it is still not the Lord's tithe. God defined what His tithe consists of and to say His tithe is anything else than what He said is to not only contradict Him, but to add to His Word.

Ten percent of one's money is not the Lord's tithe.
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On the flip side, I personally know a pastor who took control over his salary by shooting down 3 pay raises the church wanted to give him (2 were negotiated to half of the church's intent, one he held firm on a total refusal) saying the church had more pressing needs at that time.

 

2 years later it became evident he was right.

 

 

 

I, unfortunately, end up balancing the church books because our treasurer is constantly mis-entering or failing to enter things either in the register or on the ledger.

 

Replace the treasurer?  Nobody is willing to take the responsibility, some of our people are so inept that they can't manage their own finances (1 can't even keep a checking account because within 6 months he's bouncing checks), and I REFUSE to take over the money management.

 

So, I do damage control (nope, the treasurer isn't taking funds on the sly -- he's just unbelievably careless) to catch the mistakes before they can result in damage.

 

Most always there's a flip side to anything, but because there is, & because it worked out well, does not mean its the right way nor does it mean its God's way.

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Most always there's a flip side to anything, but because there is, & because it worked out well, does not mean its the right way nor does it mean its God's way.

One of us is misunderstanding the other (I'm not sure which). I didn't say he handles the money, I said he refused to allow them to give him the amount of raise they were pushing for -- are you saying that he should not have limited his salary?

 

In the 2nd incident (mine), I refuse to handle the money (ie. don't count money, don't make deposits, don't write checks, don't pay bills, don't track who gives), but balance the figures each monthly bank statement and point out the discrepancies because before I started doing that there was consistently a major difference between what the ledger said, the checkbook register said, and what the bank said. And that's not because I want to but due to no other recourse available.

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May be wise to seek another treasurer. If he constantly makes mistakes, and shows no improvement, wisdom would say he is not qualified to handle the job.

Agreed but as I stated NO ONE is willing and several are totally incapable even to the point of not being able to maintain a checking account of their own without overdrawing in less than a year. Won't put my son in the position, only have 17 members total. That's why I only look for any errors and exercise MUCH forbearance.

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While I said earlier that pastors should not be handling the finances, I can see the seriousness of the situation. A pastor should steer away from the financial management of his Church Body, yet you are forced to take measures. Is there a possibility of the Church sending the treasurer through a financial management class?

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One of us is misunderstanding the other (I'm not sure which). I didn't say he handles the money, I said he refused to allow them to give him the amount of raise they were pushing for -- are you saying that he should not have limited his salary?

 

In the 2nd incident (mine), I refuse to handle the money (ie. don't count money, don't make deposits, don't write checks, don't pay bills, don't track who gives), but balance the figures each monthly bank statement and point out the discrepancies because before I started doing that there was consistently a major difference between what the ledger said, the checkbook register said, and what the bank said. And that's not because I want to but due to no other recourse available.

 

No problem.

 

But there is a flip side for many things & people will use it to try to prove, it seems, that there's other ways besides God's way that are OK.

 

For instants, I firmly believe the Bible teaches us that a believer is not suppose to marry & unbeliever. I've stated that before with someone saying, well I did, & it worked out quite well, so that's not true.

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