Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Refuting The April 2009 Baptist Challenge...


Recommended Posts

  • Members

But the first tithe mentioned was not edible.
it matters not who gave and to whom on this point - Abram's tithe, Which was Acceptable to the priest of the Lord, most certainly was not edible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 92
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members

The first tithe was a combination of many different things. Food and clothing were among those things.

Can you show me where, after Jesus said,"it is finished", the tithe reverted back to a tithe of many things? If it did revert back to Abram's tithe then we still don't have to tithe unless we go out on a rescue mission and tithe off of the spoils of war.

The fact is, God said He gave His tithe to Israel, not Ireland, not India, not any other nation.

Where is your scripture that God extended His tithe to the ends of the Earth? God gave it to a specific people in a specific location. Unless you can produce Scripture that says God extended the tithe, lifting the regulations He set forth in The Law, you are arguing from outside of Scripture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Abram's tithe were the spoils of war (Hebrews 7:4) and were not the same type of tithe as the Levitical tithe which was always edible. (Leviticus 27:30-34)


No argument there.
But the plain fact is that it is incorrect to say the tithe was always edible.
The first tithe mentioned b in the Bible was clearly not edible.
Argue if you like that the Levitical tithe was, but it must be qualified.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

No argument there.
But the plain fact is that it is incorrect to say the tithe was always edible.
The first tithe mentioned b in the Bible was clearly not edible.
Argue if you like that the Levitical tithe was, but it must be qualified.

While it is correct to say the tithe was not always edible, it is obvious that God made it edible under the Law. Where is the Scripture that says God amended the tithe to a tithe of money for the NT Church?

And for the record, I always specified that the Law tithe was edible.

Something to think about... Abram's tithe was a tenth of the spoils. Numbers 31 reveals that God required far, far less than a tenth of spoils of war.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

No argument there.
But the plain fact is that it is incorrect to say the tithe was always edible.
The first tithe mentioned b in the Bible was clearly not edible.
Argue if you like that the Levitical tithe was, but it must be qualified.

Abram's tithe was a combination of food (edible items) and probably clothing.  Genesis 14:24 states that some of that booty (spoils) was eaten by Abram's men:

 

Genesis 14:24 Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

This thread is an example of how we can so easily follow tradition, our own preference, the way we've always done things, rather than simply accepting what Scripture teaches. The Old Covenant, of which the tithe was a part, was for the Jews. The New Covenant is for Christians, all who are born again in Christ. One cannot read the New Covenant and think they need to tithe because it's simply not there.

 

The amount a tither gives or a non-tither givers, has no bearing whatsoever upon what the Word of God says regarding Christian giving.

 

Obviously it makes a difference whether we tithe out of OT obligation or we give in accordance with New Covenant precepts for giving otherwise Scripture wouldn't make the distinction. A Christians giving is not to be done under compulsion (to say one must tithe is compulsion), rather it is to be cheerfully from the heart as the Lord leads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Those who don't like to give cheerfully whether tithe or from the increase God provides them for the church, the poor, or for missions will either find an excuse not to give or they won't even bother with an excuse. They will justify themselves among themselves. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Those who don't like to give cheerfully whether tithe or from the increase God provides them for the church, the poor, or for missions will either find an excuse not to give or they won't even bother with an excuse. They will justify themselves among themselves. 

True, yet that doesn't have any bearing upon the clear teaching of Scripture as to how Christians are to give.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

True, yet that doesn't have any bearing upon the clear teaching of Scripture as to how Christians are to give.

it is clear that some do not care what Scripture says concerning Christian giving. They want us to bow to a doctrine established centuries after the Apostles died. They themselves would rather follow the traditions of man than what Scripture says concerning giving.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

I believe Jesus earthly ministry was primarily to Israel-though most of what He spke of would be transferred to the churches, as well. However, with the exception of His one dealing with the issue of tithing with the Pharisees, who tended to be...uh...legalistic, I don't believe Jesus ever spoke of it again. And really, the tithing wasn't really the context of his menionting it-it was just one point of their legalism and hypocrisy He was trying to teach them about. And with the widow's mite, this was a lesson of giving your all to God, rather than just a legalistic tenth and believing you've done your required part-it was, again, Jesus helping others to understand the spirit of the law, over the letter. Jesus wasn't saying we all have to cast all we have into the box, as it were, but that the widow's heart was fully after God, that she understood that God would be her help, and she was willing to do what she could for Him. Its the Isaiah 1issue: God wants our hearts, first-He wants us to be ALL His. If your heart isn't in it, He doesn't want you to give anything else, if its being done out of purely duty and requirement-He wants obedience, following the heart-He wants us to give because we love Him. Sure, there are days when our hearts may not be in it-and then we may give or do out of duty-I don't think that's bad, just that it should be the exception.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I believe Jesus earthly ministry was primarily to Israel-though most of what He spke of would be transferred to the churches, as well. However, with the exception of His one dealing with the issue of tithing with the Pharisees, who tended to be...uh...legalistic, I don't believe Jesus ever spoke of it again. And really, the tithing wasn't really the context of his menionting it-it was just one point of their legalism and hypocrisy He was trying to teach them about. And with the widow's mite, this was a lesson of giving your all to God, rather than just a legalistic tenth and believing you've done your required part-it was, again, Jesus helping others to understand the spirit of the law, over the letter. Jesus wasn't saying we all have to cast all we have into the box, as it were, but that the widow's heart was fully after God, that she understood that God would be her help, and she was willing to do what she could for Him. Its the Isaiah 1issue: God wants our hearts, first-He wants us to be ALL His. If your heart isn't in it, He doesn't want you to give anything else, if its being done out of purely duty and requirement-He wants obedience, following the heart-He wants us to give because we love Him. Sure, there are days when our hearts may not be in it-and then we may give or do out of duty-I don't think that's bad, just that it should be the exception.

 

Excellent points again Mike. The issue of tithe along with many others smacks of pharisitical legalism and not church age following of Christ.

Laws such as this are a comfort crutch for many believers, particularily fundamental baptists; it gives them a zone to feel right with God and comfortable.

 

I say, the minute you feel right with God is when you are the MOST BACKSLIDDEN.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I believe Jesus earthly ministry was primarily to Israel-though most of what He spke of would be transferred to the churches, as well. However, with the exception of His one dealing with the issue of tithing with the Pharisees, who tended to be...uh...legalistic, I don't believe Jesus ever spoke of it again. And really, the tithing wasn't really the context of his menionting it-it was just one point of their legalism and hypocrisy He was trying to teach them about. And with the widow's mite, this was a lesson of giving your all to God, rather than just a legalistic tenth and believing you've done your required part-it was, again, Jesus helping others to understand the spirit of the law, over the letter. Jesus wasn't saying we all have to cast all we have into the box, as it were, but that the widow's heart was fully after God, that she understood that God would be her help, and she was willing to do what she could for Him. Its the Isaiah 1issue: God wants our hearts, first-He wants us to be ALL His. If your heart isn't in it, He doesn't want you to give anything else, if its being done out of purely duty and requirement-He wants obedience, following the heart-He wants us to give because we love Him. Sure, there are days when our hearts may not be in it-and then we may give or do out of duty-I don't think that's bad, just that it should be the exception.

 

Mt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

1Jo 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

 

Isn't that true, you stated that very good. And some take the legalistic approach to giving while teaching it as well. And i will say it again, the thing that gets me the most on this is how they treat the poor & elderly who have little money. They steal their cheer.

 

One Independent Baptist Church in our neck of the woods the pastor whom I like, but care not for his ways, is the dictator of his church. He says he has never had a man in his church that was worthy of being a deacon, & therefore has never had a deacon. He welcomes all members with open arm, & throughout the years by visitation has had many members. But he had failed to keep many of them. If he had only kept half of those he had gained his numbers would run 400 to 600 on any give Sunday instead of 20 to 40.

 

He makes all decisions, he handles all of the money, he teaches tithing. I said he welcomes all members with open arms, that is they're welcome to come attend all services, place money in the collection plate, listen to the teachers & his preaching, ask for prayers & ect., & do what ever he may ask of them. Yet their not welcome to be involved in the fiances or question him in any manner about how the business of this church is run. He is a perfect example of a pastor dictator.

 

Many years ago during his younger days as a pastor he had a bad experience with some deacons & he has stated to me he is going to make sure that will never happen again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...