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Refuting The April 2009 Baptist Challenge...


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The Baptist Challenge issued a Newsletter for the month of August of 2009 giving several alleged "Biblical" reasons why the Church is bound to the tithe.  My intentions in this thread is to show the reader why Moser was wrong in several parts of his article.

Point #1.  What is the Tithe?
Moser states that the tithe is a tenth of one's income.  This is  easily shown to be a false statement.  The Bible never says the tithe is a tenth of one's income.  Rather, it says the tithe is from the seed of the land, the fruit of the tree, and every tenth cattle that passeth under the rod. (Lev. 27:30-33)

Moser goes on to say that the tithe is associated with firstfruits.  Again, an incorrect statement.  Tithes and firstfruits were different, which can be clearly seen in Nehemiah 10:37-38.  Firstfruits were taken to the priests, tithes to the Levites.  The children of Israel brought the firstfruits to the storehouse chambers, but the Levite brought the tithe to the storehouse chambers.  Tithing and firstfruits are also differentiated in Nehemiah 12:44.


Point #2.  Except for wrong Scripture reference, not an issue.

Point #3.  Moser claims that every saint and sinner alike should pay tithes.   For proof, he refers to Malachi 3:9.  Again, incorrect.  Malachi was not written to every saint and sinner alike... it was written to the children of Israel. (Malachi 1:1)  And the admonition in Malachi 3:9 was also not to every saint and sinner alike... it was to the Levites, who were responsible for taking the tithe into the storehouse (Nehemiah 10:37-38)  The children of Israel were not told to bring the tithe of the tithe into the storehouse, the Levites were.  The children were told to bring the tithe to the Levites.  The Levites were told to bring a tithe of the tithe into the storehouse.

Point #4.  Where to bring the tithe... Moser states that the tithe is to be brought to the Church.  Yet, the Bible never teaches a tithe is to be brought to the Church.  In the Old Testament, God said the tithe was to be brought to the storehouse.  2 Chronicles 31 tells us where those storehouses were.  There is no Scripture that says God ever instructed the tithe to be taken to the Church, nor is there any Scripture that calls the Church the storehouse. 

Point #5.  Have we the right to withhold tithes?... Moser says no!  But the Bible tells us something entirely different.  The Bible tells us that the ordinances were taken out of the way and nailed to the cross.  We are told by Paul that we who have placed our faith in Christ are not under the Law... yet Moser wants to put every Baptist under the Law.  Paul said those who allow themselves to be placed under the Law have been bewitched and calls them foolish for allowing such.  IN Acts 15, the Gentile Converts receive a letter from the Apostles stating what  was required of them, and tithing was not one of those "necessary things." 

Point #6.  Is the Tithe Binding on us today?  Moser says, Without a doubt!  But how can it be when the decision of the Jerusalem Council was not to put us under the Mosaic Law?  How can it be when Paul said our giving was to be "as one purposeth in his heart, so let him give"?

Point #7.  Did Jesus approve the tithe?  Moser says yes, and quotes Matthew 23:23.  This is poor hermeneutics at best.  Jesus was not speaking to the Church, He was speaking to the Scribes and Pharisees who were under the Law.  Of course He approved their tithe.  The Law required it.  But notice what they tithed... garden produce, not money.  The tithe Jesus approved is not the same "tithe" being preached in the majority of Churches today.

Point #8.  Moser uses Hebrews 7:21 to support tithing.  But he fails to tell the reader that the tithe being referred to was not Abram's own property... it was the spoils of war.  Nor was the tithe Levi received income... it was increase.

Point #9.  Moser refers to Malachi's blessing to the land of Israel for tithing, implying that God will open the windows of heaven and pour out blessings upon the tither of money today.  Of course, Moser is taking that verse out of context.

Point # 10.  Moser claims if one doesn't tithe, that one is subject to epidemics, famines, pestilences, and personal difficulties.  Since there is no instruction for us to tithe today, Moser's article is only good for kindling the fireplace.

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I actually thought the article was lacking depth apart from anything else.
his arguments are so Incredibly brief that there is little point discussing them.
on the face of it, many of his references seem to have vague application at best, and it could be argued that many of them are totally irrelevant.

and thanks for bringing it out of the other thread. ;)

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The Baptist Challenge's April 2010 article "A Tenth of All" by Norman Wells is even more pathetic than Moser's was the previous year. 

Wells claims that tithing began in the Garden of Eden and that the tree that Adam and Eve partook of was God's portion.  Excuse me???  Where does the Bible say the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was "God's Portion"?  I can't find that verse.

Wells then breaks down the instruction of Malachi 3:8-11 in a feeble attempt to convince the readers that they are bound to the tithe today.  Sadly, many are bewitched by such writings as those of Wells and Moser and foolishly place themselves under the Law because they are convinced by man's opinion rather than God's Word.

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The Baptist Challenge issued a Newsletter for the month of August of 2009 giving several alleged "Biblical" reasons why the Church is bound to the tithe.  My intentions in this thread is to show the reader why Moser was wrong in several parts of his article.

I have never read, nor heard of the "Baptist Challenge", but I beg to differ with you on a few critical points:

Point #1.  What is the Tithe?
Moser states that the tithe is a tenth of one's income.  This is  easily shown to be a false statement.  The Bible never says the tithe is a tenth of one's income.  Rather, it says the tithe is from the seed of the land, the fruit of the tree, and every tenth cattle that passeth under the rod. (Lev. 27:30-33)

The very word "tithe" means "tenth", or have you forgotten?  What the tithe was gathered from is of little consequence--the message is tithing, not what to tithe.  Some could not afford an income, in fact money was more scarce then than it is now.  they traded.

Moser goes on to say that the tithe is associated with firstfruits.  Again, an incorrect statement.  Tithes and firstfruits were different, which can be clearly seen in Nehemiah 10:37-38.  Firstfruits were taken to the priests, tithes to the Levites.  The children of Israel brought the firstfruits to the storehouse chambers, but the Levite brought the tithe to the storehouse chambers.  Tithing and firstfruits are also differentiated in Nehemiah 12:44.

This point is valid, but taking the tithe off the "top" is a healthy attitude toward giving.

Point #2.  Except for wrong Scripture reference, not an issue.

Point #3.  Moser claims that every saint and sinner alike should pay tithes.   For proof, he refers to Malachi 3:9.  Again, incorrect.  Malachi was not written to every saint and sinner alike... it was written to the children of Israel. (Malachi 1:1)  And the admonition in Malachi 3:9 was also not to every saint and sinner alike... it was to the Levites, who were responsible for taking the tithe into the storehouse (Nehemiah 10:37-38)  The children of Israel were not told to bring the tithe of the tithe into the storehouse, the Levites were.  The children were told to bring the tithe to the Levites.  The Levites were told to bring a tithe of the tithe into the storehouse.

 

First, if you want to isolate scripture, tear out the entire New Testament from your Bible!  Of course it was written to the Jew, would you expect God to write to the heathen?  God was writing here to "His people"; are we not all God's people?  The Levite thing is a matter of protocol, and irrelevant to your post.  please tear that section out of your Bible--it's not speaking to you.

Point #4.  Where to bring the tithe... Moser states that the tithe is to be brought to the Church.  Yet, the Bible never teaches a tithe is to be brought to the Church.  In the Old Testament, God said the tithe was to be brought to the storehouse.  2 Chronicles 31 tells us where those storehouses were.  There is no Scripture that says God ever instructed the tithe to be taken to the Church, nor is there any Scripture that calls the Church the storehouse. 

 

Where would you suppose the "storehouse to be, if not the church?  This is nit-picking at its best.  If we did things like they did, then you would have a point.

Point #5.  Have we the right to withhold tithes?... Moser says no!  But the Bible tells us something entirely different.  The Bible tells us that the ordinances were taken out of the way and nailed to the cross.  We are told by Paul that we who have placed our faith in Christ are not under the Law... yet Moser wants to put every Baptist under the Law.  Paul said those who allow themselves to be placed under the Law have been bewitched and calls them foolish for allowing such.  IN Acts 15, the Gentile Converts receive a letter from the Apostles stating what  was required of them, and tithing was not one of those "necessary things." 

 

"Under the law" you say?  The law was always in effect.  Read the book of Job.  The law is eternal.  Our attitude in tithing is not servile, but willing--willing to do what the Bible says.

Point #6.  Is the Tithe Binding on us today?  Moser says, Without a doubt!  But how can it be when the decision of the Jerusalem Council was not to put us under the Mosaic Law?  How can it be when Paul said our giving was to be "as one purposeth in his heart, so let him give"?

 

Good question here, but answered in previous rebuttal.  Our attitude has much to do with it ("cheerful givers").  if we give grudginly, we have a lot to learn about giving.

Point #7.  Did Jesus approve the tithe?  Moser says yes, and quotes Matthew 23:23.  This is poor hermeneutics at best.  Jesus was not speaking to the Church, He was speaking to the Scribes and Pharisees who were under the Law.  Of course He approved their tithe.  The Law required it.  But notice what they tithed... garden produce, not money.  The tithe Jesus approved is not the same "tithe" being preached in the majority of Churches today.

 

Again we isolate Scripture.  Doesn't the Bible speak to all men alike?  This "dispensational thinking" has caused many errors in understanding Scripture. 

Point #8.  Moser uses Hebrews 7:21 to support tithing.  But he fails to tell the reader that the tithe being referred to was not Abram's own property... it was the spoils of war.  Nor was the tithe Levi received income... it was increase.

 

"Is not "increase" our wages also?  I consider my increase to be that which I worked for.  It could have been slavery if not!

Point #9.  Moser refers to Malachi's blessing to the land of Israel for tithing, implying that God will open the windows of heaven and pour out blessings upon the tither of money today.  Of course, Moser is taking that verse out of context.

 

I have coined a phrase: "Some people are so caught up in context that they miss the content of the Scripture."  The Bible says what it says until we divide it wrongly, and apply it personally.

Point # 10.  Moser claims if one doesn't tithe, that one is subject to epidemics, famines, pestilences, and personal difficulties.  Since there is no instruction for us to tithe today, Moser's article is only good for kindling the fireplace.

 

We all are subject to such things, tithing or not, but it behooves us to be in goodwill with the Lord when trials and trouble comes our way.  I would not say that there is such a "curse" on those who don't tithe, but it will effect other area of their lives negatively.  Many principles in the Word of God are based on our attitude toward giving. 

 

You non-tithers will spend the money that God allowed you to earn, or win, or whatever, but most likely His work will receive very little of it.  When we leave it up to ourselves to determine the amount, we make a terrible mistake.  The flesh is always flesh--self seeking, and conniving, evil from the beginning, as you no doubt knowif we leave it to our own discretion, we would wait until we bought that new car or motorcycle, or whatever, then give; surely the Lord would have us be a good testimony in a shiny new car!

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That's a major false allegation accusing those who hold to NT giving rather than OT tithe. Typically, in churches which follow NT giving, the congregation gives more than those who call for the OT tithe.

 

While I've heard many OT tithe preachers continually preaching the congregation should tithe because the church needs the money, I've never heard such in a NT giving church.

 

Some claim tithers are blessed because they tithe (which is the same message prosperity preachers preach) yet they ignore the tens of thousands who tithe and end up in poverty, debt or loss.

 

The only way one can even try to say a Christian should tithe is by looking back to the Old Covenant with Israel. If one looks to the commands given in the New Covenant to Christians it's perfectly clear that giving is to come from the heart as the Lord leads.

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Amen, John 81! It is sad that some think we are under the Law.

Sorry Irishman, but law and grace don't mix. All instances of tithing in the Bible are under the Law. You can choose to put yourself under the Law if you wish, but to judge us for living in the Grace the is bestowed to us is not only legalism, but also prideful arrogance.

We are not instructed to tithe in the New Testament, but rather to choose what we give of our own accord. Sure, the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked, but those who are Christ's have been given a new heart.

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Amen, John 81! It is sad that some think we are under the Law.

Sorry Irishman, but law and grace don't mix.

So Jesus didn't know what he was talking about when He said He was not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it? Is not all Scripture given for instruction in righteousness? Be very careful of what you say, because often your words speak of more than you intended. Language is very important, let's try to use it properly.

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So Jesus didn't know what he was talking about when He said He was not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it? Is not all Scripture given for instruction in righteousness? Be very careful of what you say, because often your words speak of more than you intended. Language is very important, let's try to use it properly.


Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might bejustified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
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Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might bejustified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

So in other words, I don't need to study anything in the law because none of it applies to me.

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So in other words, I don't need to study anything in the law because none of it applies to me.

the Law is a record of how God dealt with the Jews. We can learn from it, but Paul clearly says if we put ourselves under the Law we must continue in all things written in the Law to do them.

So tell me, is what you are wearing made of more than one material? Probably. Why are you defending a yoke that not even yourself can bear?
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the Law is a record of how God dealt with the Jews. We can learn from it, but Paul clearly says if we put ourselves under the Law we must continue in all things written in the Law to do them.

So tell me, is what you are wearing made of more than one material? Probably. Why are you defending a yoke that not even yourself can bear?

 

I don't believe you will change minds.

 

Someone stated, all Baptist Church use to teach tithing, yet that's not true in this part of the country, although more do so today that yesterday years, & it seem the educated pastors from the seminary usually return teaching tithing.

 

Someone else seemed to think that those who do not believe in tithing does not attend church, or that they're not Baptist. I suppose its a way to put us down for our belief. I can't think of any other reason to say that. 

 

I firmly believe that many who teach that thinks it makes more money hit the collection plate. I suppose that might be true for those members that has large incomes.

 

A long time back when we were on this topic someone told me that because I did not believe in tithing that I was robbing God. I Let them get puffed up being proud of their self & their giving their 10% tithe.

 

One thing I do not like to do is tell what I give, I do not want to boast, but even more so its no one else business. yet when that person told me I was robbing God I went back to see what % I had given the previous year. I had given more than 20% & my income for a husband & wife is just barely above the poverty level.

 

Yet the truth is its very difficult for those who have to out give those who do not have. Those who do not have many times sacrifices their necessities to give to the Lord & very seldom get any wants at all, those who have only sacrifice some of their wants. But for many of them that have, they hate to hear this, for they know their giving of 10% of their big income is a very big number. And the only reason i'm saying this is they're doing their best to take any cheerfulness out of the hearts of those who do not have, plus on the issue of tithing they even try to steal God's grace that is given to everyone. Plus tithing is not taught in the New Testament, & it keep many from giving even more than 10 %.

 

And so far I've never been in a Baptist Church that was not very good about giving money to the Lord, most have done so above measure, even without believing in tithing or tithing being taught. I think if they showed a bit of grace they would be amazed at the return it would give them.

 

And the tithers will never understand this verses nor those around it, they will keep on taking it out of context.

 

Mr 12:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

 

Yet remember what I state earlier, your not going to change their minds, they're stuck on tithing while leaving grace out of it.

 

And that is my humble opinion on the matter, & I am not mad at no one & I am not trying to make anyone mad, there is no hate involved, I'm only telling it like it is. Yet as I before stated I get tired of those who cheat the poor out of being a cheerful giver by giving what they can. And I'm so thankful for the grace that God provides ALL of us. We would all be in major trouble without it.

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Don't be too quick to say he will not change minds, I have had a small change in the way I think with this.  Not completely but I would encourage you to not diminish the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

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