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DaveW

So Who Teaches The Tithe Is Necessary?

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Hope this didn't hijack the thread. I agree with the above comment, Ohio Patriot, except this is why I believe the terminogy is important, as well-because it teaches, or at least implies, legalism.

 

Ukulelemike,

 

I agree with all of your post, even the last line as well because we all won't have the same ideas.  

 

I understand the premise regarding using tithe as a term, and normally don't use this as a synonym for offering.  However, in reality what is being discussed is very similar to politically correctness.  Some don't like the term because it denote's legalism and necessity,  If we understand the Bible then really this should not be an issue at all to the individual, giving should be a heart matter, then if a person understands their Bible and tithing is viewed as legalistic, it becomes a heart matter of another sort.

 

So yes I agree with the context of what you say but view the reason for viewing as legalism from a different viewpoint, perhaps.

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Ukulelemike,

I agree with all of your post, even the last line as well because we all won't have the same ideas.

I understand the premise regarding using tithe as a term, and normally don't use this as a synonym for offering. However, in reality what is being discussed is very similar to politically correctness. Some don't like the term because it denote's legalism and necessity, If we understand the Bible then really this should not be an issue at all to the individual, giving should be a heart matter, then if a person understands their Bible and tithing is viewed as legalistic, it becomes a heart matter of another sort.

So yes I agree with the context of what you say but view the reason for viewing as legalism from a different viewpoint, perhaps.


This is exactly the point.

Even among those who use the term here there does not appear to be one who promotes it as an essential doctrine.
I think every one has suggested it needs to be of a willing heart, and therefore not tithing under the law even if they Use that terminology.

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Our church (and I have no other man with whom I am so like minded as my Pastor) teaches that the tithe, not being abolished through the start of the New Covenant, is the responsibility a man owes to his God. Being this man's responsibility, it is preached. What each individual member does with this preaching is between him and God. Furthermore, we believe that a Christian is obliged to give to God above that ten percent as an offering.

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Our church does not teach tithing as a mandate. We don't even pass a plate. There is a box at the door and you give when and as you feel led, it is completely personal. I would also add that the Offering Box (and that is what it is called) is not even mentioned in 90+% of our services.

 

I personally like the concept of the tithe (i.e. 10% of gross) as I find it a convenient starting point for giving. Faith Promise and other offerings can be added as the individual is led. I see all the argument about the various terms as nothing more than semantics and a waste of time. If people are being led astray by those that mandate tithing then perhaps they should read their Bible instead of taking everything their pastor says for granted.

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How convenient to teach that their is no responsibility in tithing.  It matters not what people say "most" IFB churches teach, in todays world they also teach other things that are questionable, and those have been discussed here over and over again just as tithing has.

 

By the way, that box in the back of the church sounds like MacArthurs teaching who also swear by the NIV, and has denied the blood in the past.  He practiced that, and calls it "grace giving" as if giving out of our "increase" (We are increased by our income, or doesn't that count?) is not of grace.

 

call it "modern giving" if you will be more correct, and not tithing.

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We have a box in the back too. It's left over from when our church met in a house and there wasn't much room for passing plates. I like it. It's always handy to give, it saves a lot of times in services, and it will never make a visitor feel like they're being pressured to put something in the plate. Pastor never even mentions it, except to tell people where they can put offerings for special projects/missionaries.

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How convenient to teach that their is no responsibility in tithing.  It matters not what people say "most" IFB churches teach, in todays world they also teach other things that are questionable, and those have been discussed here over and over again just as tithing has.

 

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

 

What?! Not of necessity!? Sounds like Paul is saying if it is not in your heart you don't have to give. As stated in Isaiah 1, God doesn't desire vain oblations.

 

By the way, that box in the back of the church sounds like MacArthurs teaching who also swear by the NIV, and has denied the blood in the past.  He practiced that, and calls it "grace giving" as if giving out of our "increase" (We are increased by our income, or doesn't that count?) is not of grace.

 

Matthew 6:3-4 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.


call it "modern giving" if you will be more correct, and not tithing.

 

Call it by what ever narrow-minded label you want to call it. Our pastors decided to allow our giving to be in private, between us and God. But then, never having been to our church I'm sure your educated observation is right on target. I'll take it to my pastors for advisement.

 

Of course, I can see how passing the plate where some will put in empty envelopes just so their neighbors believe they are giving may be seen by some as advantageous.

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How convenient to teach that their is no responsibility in tithing.  It matters not what people say "most" IFB churches teach, in todays world they also teach other things that are questionable, and those have been discussed here over and over again just as tithing has.

 

By the way, that box in the back of the church sounds like MacArthurs teaching who also swear by the NIV, and has denied the blood in the past.  He practiced that, and calls it "grace giving" as if giving out of our "increase" (We are increased by our income, or doesn't that count?) is not of grace.

 

call it "modern giving" if you will be more correct, and not tithing.

Brother, there were churches with similar set up before MacArthur was born.

That comment is not because we have a box, we don't. Just setting history straight.

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Of course, I can see how passing the plate where some will put in empty envelopes just so their neighbors believe they are giving may be seen by some as advantageous.

I've preached on pride, ostentatiousness, and deceit enough that I don't think any of our church could try to do that without being convicted.

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Of course, I can see how passing the plate where some will put in empty envelopes just so their neighbors believe they are giving may be seen by some as advantageous.

 

I suppose there will always be busybodies keeping an eye out for anything they can see the going forth saying something like this, "Did you know so & so put many dollars in the collection plate," & or "Did you know so & so only put one dollar in the collection plate," & little did they know the Sunday before both of them did the very reverse.

 

So many people just don't understand not to believe everything they see, what a person may see may not be actually what taken place, but that does not stop many from slandering people who did nothing to be slander for.

 

1Ti 5:13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.

 

I suppose most churches has at least one busybody that keeps their eye opened at all times taking in anything & everything so they can keep up their busybody talk. 

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Personally, I was asked by a few members to teach about giving and tithing several years ago.

in a basic sense, over several evenings I taught that tithing is not commanded for NT saints.

I said that it set AN EXAMPLE which was honouring to God to follow, but was not necessary, nor commanded, nor should it be 'enforced' in any way.

I actually do not personally know of any IFB preacher who teaches it is necessary.

So, who here actually does think that a tithe is a NT necessity?

By the way I do know of a few different churches that actually enforce it - one gets copies of payslips and direct debits the accounts!!!!!!!!
wrong on so many levels.

 

In the interest of answering the OP, I teach it as a time-transcendant principle as opposed a strict ecclesiological requirement.  The tithe is really between the individual and God.  Even so, I teach it as a crucially important aspect of a Christian's walk with God and a completely separate type of giving from faith promise and grace giving.

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Redundant, all of it.

 

Where are the Baptists?  It used to be preached in every Baptist church, that's what I meant by "modernism".  We have come a long way (the wrong way!)

Edited by irishman

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Where are the Baptists?  It used to be preached in every Baptist church, that's what I meant by "modernism".  We have come a long way (the wrong way!)

 

Grace Baptist’s heritage is ancient, going all the way back to the Apostolic Age.  Baptists and Baptist people are not Reformed, as we had our 
beginnings in the Book of Acts.  Baptist churches pre-date the Roman Catholic church.  We claim, as part of our spiritual heritage, the grand 
old groups such as the Donatists, the Albigensians, the Waldensians, the old Swiss and German Anabaptists, the Mennonites and Brethren, 
and similar groups.  
 
Grace Baptist Church once identified with Biblical Fundamentalism, but we are very uncertain of that identification today.  Baptist 
Fundamentalism has apostatized from its grand heritage and is largely unrecognizable from what it was even 20 years ago.  Many neo-
Fundamentalists have abandoned the King James Bible and the traditional Biblical manuscripts, separation, and godly music and have 
adopted Contemporary Christianity.  That grand old movement is dead.  Grace Baptist is a part of a “post-Fundamentalist” movement which 
Pastor Cereghin refers to as “Remnant Christianity”, signifying the numerical smallness and spiritual humility of such churches and 
Christians.  We make no great claims for ourselves and we have no aspirations for worldly greatness.  Our only desire is to preach Christ and 
Him Crucified and to remain faithful to the Scriptures in this corrupt generation.  We identify ourselves as a Bible Believing, Remnant Baptist 
Church, standing on the King James Bible as the preserved word of God in English.

 

 

 
Amen
 
Edited by The Ohio Patriot

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In the interest of answering the OP, I teach it as a time-transcendant principle as opposed a strict ecclesiological requirement.  The tithe is really between the individual and God.  Even so, I teach it as a crucially important aspect of a Christian's walk with God and a completely separate type of giving from faith promise and grace giving.

If it is as important as you claim it is, why no mention of it by the Apostles?  Why no mention of it in the pastoral epistles?

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If it is as important as you claim it is, why no mention of it by the Apostles?  Why no mention of it in the pastoral epistles?

 

We can discuss this point in further detail your other thread if you wish since Dave asked us for positional statements and not to engage in the debate side of it in this thread (post #7); but to respond to you succinctly, for the same reason they don't really talk about murder all that much (if any?) and as I said I don't believe it's an ecclesiological rule so it wouldn't necessarily be in a pastoral epistle.

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Okay, I'm going to pull mod here...Dave has asked repeatedly to stick with the OP.  Let's get back to that. There are plenty of other threads on tithing.  Let's take discussion of beliefs regarding it there instead of continuing to disregard the OP's request.  Capice?   :11backtotopic:

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Okay, I'm going to pull mod here...Dave has asked repeatedly to stick with the OP.  Let's get back to that. There are plenty of other threads on tithing.  Let's take discussion of beliefs regarding it there instead of continuing to disregard the OP's request.  Capice?   :11backtotopic:

 

I don't normally complain but the premise in the opening post was false to start with.

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My church matches Kita's position. I do believe that 'the tithe is the Lord's', and that as it predates the Law, is not necessarily bound by the law. Frankly, though, I don't see it as an area of separation (I'd be more likely to separate from a church that took it directly off your paycheck!), as long as the principles of giving to The Lord and supporting the pastor are in place.

Faith Promise is an area that's a bit grayer. We do it, but I tend to consider it more of an organized giving to missions than actually believing/acting on the faith promise principle. Guess I don't have much faith...

 

 

I agree with you on Faith Promise...it's just an organized way to be able to know for sure that you have the funds to support the missionaries you take on...not a Biblical mandate.

 

Practically speaking, most, if not all people, who practice tithing, will report awesome blessings and watchcare from God over their finances.

 

For those who disagree....*shrug*...if you aren't in our church, then it really doesn't matter, because you don't have to listen to the messages here.  haha.

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I don't normally complain but the premise in the opening post was false to start with.

Doesn't matter...honor his request.  :icon_smile:

 

edited to add: Let me explain, since some didn't understand.  It is not a false premise that doesn't matter.  What doesn't matter is that one of us might think it's a false premise - without scripture (or, if it's not a biblical discussion, factual evidence) showing that a premise is false, we cannot legitimately make that claim.

 

It is not - He specifically stated he only wanted people to state what their churches taught...not to discuss the right or wrong of it.  That is not a false premise, it is a request to keep the thread on a certain trail.  There is nothing wrong with that, and as Christians, we should honor his request.  There are already 2 active threads discussing the rights or wrongs of tithing, so it isn't necessary to do so in this thread.  Especially since the OP requested not...and mentioned it again more than once.  Is that more clear?

 

See post #7 for the specific request.

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Personally, I was asked by a few members to teach about giving and tithing several years ago.

in a basic sense, over several evenings I taught that tithing is not commanded for NT saints.

I said that it set AN EXAMPLE which was honouring to God to follow, but was not necessary, nor commanded, nor should it be 'enforced' in any way.

I actually do not personally know of any IFB preacher who teaches it is necessary.

So, who here actually does think that a tithe is a NT necessity?

By the way I do know of a few different churches that actually enforce it - one gets copies of payslips and direct debits the accounts!!!!!!!!
wrong on so many levels.


False premise?

I stated my position, asked a question, and gave an example which I think we would all agree is way overstepping the mark.

I presented no premise at all.

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Maybe in the future something like this would be best done as a poll.  Just a suggestion....with a request not to discuss?   I dunno.

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Maybe in the future something like this would be best done as a poll. Just a suggestion....with a request not to discuss? I dunno.


I thought about that..... Afterwards..........

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You can always lock the topic and start a poll.... :th_popout:

I browse on mobile and I don't seem to have the lock option. Go right ahead and lock it. It was never meant to be another tithe argument thread.
It was always to try to show that even those who do teach tithe, do so not of Necessity but from the heart.
The overriding principle surely is that God loves a cheerful giver, and if you are not Giving cheerfully then it doesn't honour God no matter how much nor what you call it.

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