At The Request Of The Ohio Patriot...

[Salyan]

Yes, can you please give it up already? The more you fixate on this topic, the less likely we are to pay attention. Such fixation is not healthy and, frankly, comes across as bitterness.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Believing and teaching false doctrine is even less healthy, imo.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

It is wiser to be fixated on truth than to be fixated on error.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

It is funny that I am accused of being fixated on this topic when, before tonight, I had not posted in here for more than five weeks.

People's churches can be fixated on monetary tithing, asking for it week after week, and they don't seem to mind being lied to or being coerced into giving ten percent of their hard earned money.

But just let someone teach the truth and it ruffles feathers. Amazing.

[282Mikado]

It is funny that I am accused of being fixated on this topic when, before tonight, I had not posted in here for more than five weeks.

 

This is probably because you were the last person to comment in this topic 5 weeks ago. Everyone else seemed content to let it die...you resurrected it. You have been beating this drum at least since 2008 and I would assume longer and not only on this forum. I would call that fixated.

 

 

Never seen anyone hurt by due to the tithe doctrine being taught incorrectly? Open your eyes, there have been many hurt because of the false teaching. Many in poverty remain in poverty because of bowing to the man-made doctrine of the monetary tithe... While the rich get richer.

 

So you do not like the tithe because it is an OT only standard (and I can see your logic there), but you also don't like it because you feel it presents a financial hardship many are not able to bear because of there circumstances; and you feel it is often demanded by those that only seek to line there own pockets (and I can see you logic here). Now let's take a look at what Jesus has to say about giving.

 

In his discourse to the Rich Young Ruler we read:

 

Matthew 19:20-21 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

 

"Sell ALL that thou hast", not 10%...all, and thou wilt be perfect.

 

Luke 21:1-4 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. 2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. 3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: 4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

 

This last reference is the only other positive reference I can see Jesus making with regards of an individual person giving. Once again notice that the poor widow gave ALL she had.

 

So SFIC it would seem that Jesus expects us to give ALL we have, not just 10%...IF we will be perfect. Would you be perfect SFIC? Sounds like you (and the rest of us) have some catching up to do.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Did Jesus say "If ALL will be perfect..."?

Or did He say "If YOU will be perfect..."?

 

Looks to me like it was the latter.  Jesus was not telling all to sell all they had.  His statement was to a certain individual.  He knew that individual's heart and knew how to bring what was in that individual's heart to the surface.

Ever think the reason that I "beat the drum" might be because the lie of the monetary tithe is still being taught and embraced by many?  If they have a voice to preach lies, it would be wrong for me to silence the truth.

[JerryNumbers]

I agree somewhat with Standing Firm in Christ somewhat. there's may people hurt because of pastors, preachers, & teachers teaching tithing. there's many poor elderly, as well as younger people who have little, that loses their happiness in the Lord by those proclaiming tithing. These people steal these peoples happiness in the Lord, & they keep these people from being cheerful givers to the Lord their God.

 

Any false teaching what every issue it may be is very important.

 

But at this point with the big conflict, put down being given to Standing Firm, its time to move on until a opportune time later on. For those who stand strong on tithing being a true Bible doctrine are only rebuking & are not teachable at the moment.

 

In my first paragraph I said I agree somewhat, I agree that tithing is not a New Testament doctrine, I don't agree completely with the way Standing Firm presents his side of this issue.

 

Standing Firm, I asked you to wait till another time, perhaps it will be a better teachable moment.

[John81]

Laying false burdens upon people is harmful. As has been mentioned, many have been and currently are very harmed by being taught they must give a tithe of all their income. They tithe and tithe, find themselves unable to pay their bills, and sometimes end up in debt in order to pay their tithes.

 

Some pastors continually preach on the tithe and how if the congregation doesn't tithe, "God will get His tithe in another way!". Then the pastor proceeds to preach fear into the hearts of the congregation (does God give us the spirit of fear?) by claiming if the congregation doesn't tithe then they can expect God to cause their car to break down or for folks to lose their jobs or that cancer will come upon them or some other disaster as a means of God "getting His tithe".

 

As Jerry said, any false teaching is important to address.

 

The question shouldn't be one of why a believer continues to put forth the truth about this (or any other matter) but why some believers are so intent upon holding to false teaching, so resistant to the truth of Scripture, so quick to attack not only the truth, but the messenger of the truth.

 

As some point out from time to time, if one doesn't like the topic of a thread, it's simple to ignore that thread.

[JerryNumbers]

Laying false burdens upon people is harmful. As has been mentioned, many have been and currently are very harmed by being taught they must give a tithe of all their income. They tithe and tithe, find themselves unable to pay their bills, and sometimes end up in debt in order to pay their tithes.

 

Some pastors continually preach on the tithe and how if the congregation doesn't tithe, "God will get His tithe in another way!". Then the pastor proceeds to preach fear into the hearts of the congregation (does God give us the spirit of fear?) by claiming if the congregation doesn't tithe then they can expect God to cause their car to break down or for folks to lose their jobs or that cancer will come upon them or some other disaster as a means of God "getting His tithe".

 

As Jerry said, any false teaching is important to address.

 

The question shouldn't be one of why a believer continues to put forth the truth about this (or any other matter) but why some believers are so intent upon holding to false teaching, so resistant to the truth of Scripture, so quick to attack not only the truth, but the messenger of the truth.

 

As some point out from time to time, if one doesn't like the topic of a thread, it's simple to ignore that thread.

 

 

This is off topic a bit, but its on money & giving.

 

I wonder the out come of those that listen to those that teaches send in your seed money, & keep sending it in, & I will pray for you, & your bills, debts, will all go away.

 

That woman name Joyce once preached, you must send in your seed money, if you do not have it, have a garage sale, them send your seed money in to me, & send in all your bills with the seed money, them I will pray over them, them I will burn your bills, & they will have been paid & you can forget about them. Plus after you do this, & keep sending in the seed money, you will start having money come in in paper bags, packed down & running over & all of you financial problems will end.

 

That seed money, with the promise of your bills all being gone, & money coming in in bags, packed down & running over, gets the best of some of those that listen to those prosperity preachers. And it seems many with each new day,  week, month, year, falls for it, while the prosperity preaches lives high on the hog off of them, & they just fall further into the hole with old Satan.

 

No wonder:

 

1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil...

 

God inspired these words to be written to us, yet few believes those words.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Sadly, prosperity teachers are not only found on Television, but also on Radio, and (gasp) even in pulpits of many churches around the globe today.

God does not want His people to have a "give to get" attitude.  Nor does He want them to be hoarders of earthly treasures.

Our treasure is not of this world. 

Many who subscribe to the monetary tithe doctrine do so for either selfish reasons, or out of fear of being cursed.  God doesn't honor that type of giving.  He said that if we regard iniquity in our hearts, He will not hear us.

Still others subscribe to the monetary tithe doctrine out of pure ignorance of what the Word of God says concerning His Holy tithe.  Instead of studying the Word of God for themselves, they believe the lie that their pastor told them, or their mother or father told them.  Many adhere to the unBiblical monetary tithe because of tradition, and yet will put down the Catholic Church for holding traditions more sacred than the Word of God. 

When we give to the Lord's work, we should be giving solely because we see a need and want to work toward meeting that need... not because we are hoping for a bigger bankroll.

God set forth the standards for our attitude toward giving, yet the majority of people today don't give solely out of their love for God.  There are are motivating factors present that cause them to give of their money.

[JerryNumbers]

Sadly, prosperity teachers are not only found on Television, but also on Radio, and (gasp) even in pulpits of many churches around the globe today.

God does not want His people to have a "give to get" attitude.  Nor does He want them to be hoarders of earthly treasures.

Our treasure is not of this world. 

Many who subscribe to the monetary tithe doctrine do so for either selfish reasons, or out of fear of being cursed.  God doesn't honor that type of giving.  He said that if we regard iniquity in our hearts, He will not hear us.

Still others subscribe to the monetary tithe doctrine out of pure ignorance of what the Word of God says concerning His Holy tithe.  Instead of studying the Word of God for themselves, they believe the lie that their pastor told them, or their mother or father told them.  Many adhere to the unBiblical monetary tithe because of tradition, and yet will put down the Catholic Church for holding traditions more sacred than the Word of God. 

When we give to the Lord's work, we should be giving solely because we see a need and want to work toward meeting that need... not because we are hoping for a bigger bankroll.

God set forth the standards for our attitude toward giving, yet the majority of people today don't give solely out of their love for God.  There are are motivating factors present that cause them to give of their money.

 

Of course there's some small times ones out there that's not found on TV. I did not mention them because they are unknown, & of course they're not living near as high on the hog as the well known one that are on TV.

 

Some will put me down for this one, yet I'm going to bring it out. Today on Fox news they were interviewing a person from Detroit that fear they will lose their retirement pay, the only income they have. when listing to him I could not help but think of this verse.

 

Mt 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

 

Linda has a cousin that lives at Houston, she had more than $50,000.00, she would not reveal just how much, invested in Enron, lost all of it. I mentioned the above verse & of course she said that has nothing to do with investing money in Enron. 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

One does not invest money in a company or product with the hopes of losing that money or never making some profit.

I have varying thoughts concerning investing. What is the purpose? Is it so that one can use the profits toward a worthwhile cause? If so, then there is nothing wrong with investing.

By a worthwhile cause, I am not speaking of worldly charities. I am speaking of places that get the Gospel out to the lost.

[John81]

What's ironic is how similar the prosperity preacher message and that coming out of many of our own Baptist churches is. Both preach the congregation must tithe in order to get blessings from the Lord. It's common for both to preach that if one tithes then the Lord will make the 90% go farther than the 100%. Both tend to preach that the Lord will give much more into their lives if they will tithe and then give even more if they give beyond the tithe.

 

At the same time, both often use the "fear factor", warning their congregations that if they don't tithe, God's going to "collect" it Himself, and then pointing out some horrible things they say God will bring about to those who don't tithe...from car problems, unemployment, to getting cancer!

 

On the issue of investments, one must calculate the risk involved and not put all their eggs in one basket. Too often people will count totally upon an investment only to find out when they need it that it's not as much as they thought it would be, or that the government or company has cut it, or a downturn in the economy has lowered its value.

 

As has been pointed out, nothing wrong with investments in themselves, but if one is putting all their hope in an investment, that's a problem. Our hope must be in the Lord, our real treasures put away in heaven. If we have investments we should not only consider the best hoped for outcome, but also the worst possible outcome and then prepare for what we will do if that comes about. For a certainty, investments and any riches of this world are subject to loss. As with all things, we should be in prayer regarding investments and follow the leading of the Holy Ghost.

 

Which brings us back to New Testament giving, in which Scripture clearly teaches that our giving should be from our heart, cheerfully given, out of no compulsion, as the Holy Ghost leads.

[JerryNumbers]

One does not invest money in a company or product with the hopes of losing that money or never making some profit.

I have varying thoughts concerning investing. What is the purpose? Is it so that one can use the profits toward a worthwhile cause? If so, then there is nothing wrong with investing.

By a worthwhile cause, I am not speaking of worldly charities. I am speaking of places that get the Gospel out to the lost.

 

The most worthwhile cause is invest it all into God, them thieves cannot break through and steal it, & your treasures will be safe, them depend on God for your daily bread. Of course that takes lots of faith, faith many just cannot grasp, there's many good sounding excuses not to do that.

[Salyan]

I extremely dislike this attitude that my humble pastor, who gets by on little salary, and teaches tithing from his pulpit, is being lumped in with the false prosperity teachers. Not the same thing at all.