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State Sues Florist...ouch...

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http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/state-sues-florist-who-refused-to-decorate-gay-wedding.html

 

 

State of Washington sues florist who refused to decorate a gay wedding.

 

Yikes.

 

I think, sometimes, that maybe it's actually a good thing I got out of the wedding business....

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Its one thing for the gay couple to sue.  (Which I think is stupid, just find another florist...why would you want the one who doesn't like you to do your wedding, anyhow????  What's the point???)   But for the STATE government to sue a private business for religious reasons?

 

That's not good.

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Matthew 5:10-12

King James Version (KJV)

10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

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The problem is that WA state voters voted to legalize same-sex marriage.  With anti-discrimination laws, this creates a situation in which private business owners don't have much of a say.

 

I completely agree with this lady's stand.  And think that it's a shame that the state has chosen her as an example.  And I do believe it's a freedom of religion issue.  But the fact that she has sold to homosexuals, and has even employed them, over the years could negate that in the eyes of the court.

 

I think, if this gets bad for her, Christians should step up and send her money for legal fees.

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The time is just around the corner when in America if you want to follow Jesus then you will be dirt poor. According to the gospels this is the way it was meant to be in the first place. Christians making loads of money in the USA and Great Britain over the last 100+ years has been the exception to the rule IMO.

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:ot: Um, nowhere in the gospels does it say that Christians shouldn't have money.  The Bible says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil - not that money itself is.  There have been many strong Christians throughout the years who have used their money in good ways to promote the gospel and see people saved/growing in Christ.  Yes, I believe that a time is coming when Christians will not have much - but that doesn't mean its been God's design all along, else ALL Christians who serve Him would be one step away from the poorhouse.  And that just isn't the way it is.  God blesses in various ways, and one of those ways is financially - not for everyone, but for some.  Just as good health isn't for everyone.  Etc.

 

:11backtotopic:

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The time is just around the corner when in America if you want to follow Jesus then you will be dirt poor. According to the gospels this is the way it was meant to be in the first place. Christians making loads of money in the USA and Great Britain over the last 100+ years has been the exception to the rule IMO.

 

No person can serve both mammon & God.

 

Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

 

Yet many tries to serve both.

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Jesus taught that those of us who have more than we need are to give to those who don't. Most Christians in America have way more than they need yet they give little or nothing to those in need. Many Christians even think since there are government programs to help the poor that means they aren't required to help those in need.

 

As American Christians build multi-million dollar churches, live in houses much larger than they need, filled with unneeded stuff, millions of our brothers/sisters in Christ don't even have a church building of any kind to gather in, call a shack their home for their entire extended family which contains very little of the necessities of life.

 

Back to the original topic, if this businesswoman has been inconsistent in her dealing with homosexuals there is a good chance she will be found guilty because they can show this is specific discrimination and not a continuation of a history of holding to a religious belief.

 

When anti-discrimination laws were first introduced there were those who warned of how their application would go far beyond the stated intentions. They were right but they were ignored.

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Matthew 5:10-12

King James Version (KJV)

10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

 

 

Not many care about handling it in that manner, the cost is way to high. Plus we love to get our rewards now, while hoping to add many to them in that Day.

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If it were me, I probably wouldn't have hired a homosexual, unless of course I didn't know beforehand.  Its not like you have a "sexual preference" box on the resume or application....

 

When I did cakes, I sold to gays, but thankfully I didn't have to worry about gay weddings because so far we don't have them in PA or even NJ (amazingly enough, at least not last I checked, maybe they do now, dunno).   I wouldn't have hired one though unless they hid it well, because I don't think its a fair question to ask...you'd have to know in your gut they were gay and then just say they weren't suited to the position.

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:ot: Um, nowhere in the gospels does it say that Christians shouldn't have money.  The Bible says the LOVE of money is the root of all evil - not that money itself is.  There have been many strong Christians throughout the years who have used their money in good ways to promote the gospel and see people saved/growing in Christ.  Yes, I believe that a time is coming when Christians will not have much - but that doesn't mean its been God's design all along, else ALL Christians who serve Him would be one step away from the poorhouse.  And that just isn't the way it is.  God blesses in various ways, and one of those ways is financially - not for everyone, but for some.  Just as good health isn't for everyone.  Etc.

 

:11backtotopic:

I didn't say they couldn't have money but in a wicked and oppressive nation it will be so if you are to deny everything and follow Jesus. It was that way under Rome and it will be that way again. The saints during the tribulation will have nothing. As we get closer to that time you will see more and more poverty among believers. There are exceptions throughout history but in the most part those who followed Christ remained poor. Even in this age most believers are dirt poor (you need to think outside of America and England). It's the cost of discipleship.

Edited by ASongOfDegrees

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I didn't say they couldn't have money but in a wicked and oppressive nation it will be so if you are to deny everything and follow Jesus. It was that way under Rome and it will be that way again. The saints during the tribulation will have nothing. As we get closer to that time you will see more and more poverty among believers. There are exceptions throughout history but in the most part those who followed Christ remained poor. Even in this age most believers are dirt poor (you need to think outside of America and England). It's the cost of discipleship.

You said: The time is just around the corner when in America if you want to follow Jesus then you will be dirt poor. According to the gospels this is the way it was meant to be in the first place. Christians making loads of money in the USA and Great Britain over the last 100+ years has been the exception to the rule IMO.

 

Same thing as saying they couldn't have money.  Claiming that being dirt poor was the way it was meant to be in the first place.  Same thing.  And still not true.  It may come to a point where no Christian has any money, but that is conjecture that remains to be seen.  I believe that will be true, but I also believe that there will be miraculous ways of God providing. 

 

(And, John - claiming that most Christians here in America have more than they need but give little or nothing to those in need is a major broad-brush that you have no way of substantiating. Personal opinion does not fact make)

 

:11backtotopic:  

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1 Peter 4:12-14

King James Version (KJV)

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

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Same thing as saying they couldn't have money.  Claiming that being dirt poor was the way it was meant to be in the first place.  Same thing.  And still not true.  It may come to a point where no Christian has any money, but that is conjecture that remains to be seen.  I believe that will be true, but I also believe that there will be miraculous ways of God providing. 

 

 

 

:11backtotopic:  

Sister, please don't tell me what I really meant. The fact is that Jesus said if a man was to follow him he would have to forsake all because of the cost of discipleship living in a wicked world that serves mammon. This is the way it is. There is poverty throughout the gospels and New Testament. Any exceptions throughout history have only proved the rule. The time is coming that it will return to this again unless you want to take the mark of the beast.

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Sister, please don't tell me what I really meant. The fact is that Jesus said if a man was to follow him he would have to forsake all because of the cost of discipleship living in a wicked world that serves mammon. This is the way it is. There is poverty throughout the gospels and New Testament. Any exceptions throughout history have only proved the rule. The time is coming that it will return to this again unless you want to take the mark of the beast.

 

Many of today's Christian do not feel they have to forsake anything for the sake of Christ, they think being a Christians is to be rich, & never go without ones wants. And they surely do not think they should ever sacrifice their life for the sake of Christ, for they can do much more for Christ living, than they can dead.

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Jesus said we had to be willing to forsake all to follow Him... but then He went on to say that those who did would receive even more of the same even in this world. Sure sometimes that is speaking of spiritual blessings - but not always. The willingness to forsake all for Christ and an actual call for one to leave his home and family and travel around itinerantly are two different things. I agree that Christians are not promised material blessings in this world, and often will have the minimum needed to survive. But I disagree that that is what God necessarily has for everyone.

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Luke 3:10-11

King James Version (KJV)

10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?

11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

 

Acts 4:32-35

King James Version (KJV)

32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

 

There are also other verses which show how Christians were continually giving sacrificially to help their brothers/sisters in Christ who had need. We are admonished to love our brothers/sisters in Christ, to share with them, to rejoice and weep with them, to help carry their burdens.

 

The question isn't one about whether we should live in poverty, or if we should all become wondering evangelists or missionaries, it's a matter of whether or not we are keeping the Word of God in these matters.

 

When one looks at American Christians we see those living excessively well off, we see many living far above their needs, and then we see those with many needs receiving little or nothing from their brothers/sisters in Christ. This shouldn't be so!

 

Is Christ glorified if we have a closet full of clothes while a brother/sister in Christ has need of clothing?

 

Is Christ glorified when we eat more at meals than we need, and often toss out much food, when some of our brothers/sisters in Christ are going hungry, are forced to turn to the government for help because their brothers/sisters in Christ won't help them?

 

Is Christ glorified when we live in houses much larger than we need while our brothers/sisters in Christ are homeless or living in run down trailers or falling in apartments or houses?

 

Is Christ glorified when we drive new vehicles we don't need, own more than we need, while our brothers/sisters in Christ no longer have a car and can no longer get to work?

 

Is Christ glorified when in the same church congregation there are those living in great abundance, others living well above their needs, and others who are barely getting by?

 

Are we living in accord with the Word of God? Are we living so the world can see how we love one another?

 

It's not a matter of giving all we have away, it's a matter of love. Do we love Christ enough to obey Him? Do we truly love our brothers/sisters in Christ as ourselves?

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Luke 3:10-11

King James Version (KJV)

10 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?

11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

 

Acts 4:32-35

King James Version (KJV)

32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

 

There are also other verses which show how Christians were continually giving sacrificially to help their brothers/sisters in Christ who had need. We are admonished to love our brothers/sisters in Christ, to share with them, to rejoice and weep with them, to help carry their burdens.

 

The question isn't one about whether we should live in poverty, or if we should all become wondering evangelists or missionaries, it's a matter of whether or not we are keeping the Word of God in these matters.

 

When one looks at American Christians we see those living excessively well off, we see many living far above their needs, and then we see those with many needs receiving little or nothing from their brothers/sisters in Christ. This shouldn't be so!

 

Is Christ glorified if we have a closet full of clothes while a brother/sister in Christ has need of clothing?

 

Is Christ glorified when we eat more at meals than we need, and often toss out much food, when some of our brothers/sisters in Christ are going hungry, are forced to turn to the government for help because their brothers/sisters in Christ won't help them?

 

Is Christ glorified when we live in houses much larger than we need while our brothers/sisters in Christ are homeless or living in run down trailers or falling in apartments or houses?

 

Is Christ glorified when we drive new vehicles we don't need, own more than we need, while our brothers/sisters in Christ no longer have a car and can no longer get to work?

 

Is Christ glorified when in the same church congregation there are those living in great abundance, others living well above their needs, and others who are barely getting by?

 

Are we living in accord with the Word of God? Are we living so the world can see how we love one another?

 

It's not a matter of giving all we have away, it's a matter of love. Do we love Christ enough to obey Him? Do we truly love our brothers/sisters in Christ as ourselves?

 

 

 

And many of them are living this way off of God, that is they're out there selling the Gospel, peddling it to whomever will pay, {speaking engagements to the choir} mostly the rounds in the larger churches, while avoiding the trenches. Its difficult to live high on the hog while working in the trenches.

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This is an extension of the rights individuals and businesses lost with the 1960s Civil Rights Movement.

 

I recall seeing signs in restaurants, cafes, truck-stops, back in the 60's, 70's, & maybe into the 80's, not just sure when they disappeared.

 

 

 
 
I recall seeing signs looking like these two in many place in time gone by, & I have seen them enforced numerous times. Most people who were confronted left very peacefully  & I saw a few make a big scene, yet it did them no good for the boss would quickly remove them from his business.
 
No doubt we are in the dress down generation of very tacky dressing people who have no self respect of self, & no respect for others.
 
There's a tuck-stop not many miles from us, once in a while we will go there to eat. I am always amazed at how tasteless many truck drivers dress in this modern time. They have completely lost the respect of the public. And there is no doubt many of the truck drivers are totally embarrassed by how fellow truck drivers dress. On truck drivers forum there was a topic on this subject started by a truck driver asking is there a way we can get out fellow truck drivers to dress in a respectful manner. The tasteless dress truck drivers posted under this topic & most of them were cussing out those that called them a total embarrassment.
 
I suppose anyone that's been on the internet very long has seen the pictures taken at Walmart of tasteless dressed people that is sicking to look at.
 
Our eyes used to be protected somewhat in the public, yet no longer.

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