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JerryNumbers

Heavy Loads Could Burden Women's Infantry Role

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The logical thing to do would be to keep women out of these roles.  But in the all inclusive, politically correct, illogical world we live in will be to do like all else and lower the standards, eventually.

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Yes, the logical thing to do is not send women to war, but we have many women that do not want to be in a woman's role, & I guess we have men that wants women bedside of them in combat.

 

I think it just further proves this country is not a Christian nation.

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It's only fair to the men in the military that if women can be generals, officers on subs and carriers, fighter pilots, etc. then they can also be grunts, leathernecks and dogfaces. Personally, I wouldn't want a woman sending me in battle when she never had to worry about facing combat one day in her life. I'm also wondering why with all the cries for equality why women still don't have to sign up for Selective Service when they hit 18.

 

I heard an old saying once, "Never trust a bald man as your barber because he won't respect your hair". I think the same principle holds true here.

 

IMO women should be all in the military or all out. Not just all in positions of leadership sending men into battle and all out of ever having to worry about going to battle themselves.

Edited by ASongOfDegrees

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Saw this coming.

 

Im an Infantryman: 11B (eleven Bravo). I served in the 24th infantry Div. during the first gulf war, 2battalion/7th infantry regiment "Cottonbailers!"

 

From my personal 6 years experience in the Army Infantry I could have told you that women will never be effective in combat infantry. In the Infantry our loads that we carry are heavier than other branches and our work is harder. It has to be by nature of serving and surviving on the front lines of battle.  

 

Someday when I have more time I'll tell you about the time we had to mock a plane crash and play injured so the medics can practice on us. The part about 4 young ladies lifting me out of an ambulance is still painful to me.

 

Unless you have served in the Army or marines, then you'll never fully understand the full issue.  

 

Woman generals do not serve as division commanders and do not lead in combat units.

 

Does anyone remember back in the late 90's when the Virginia military institute was forced by court order to allow a female in? She failed miserably. She was looked at as a woman's rights hero only to end up proving what the rest of us knew all along.

 

All things being equal, they are not equal. Just to serve in the armed forces, men and women have different standards to meet. Just google the Army PT standards for pushups sit ups and the 2 mile run and you'll see the difference in the genders.  

 

By the way, in case you haven't been paying attention to the news the last few years, women are already seeing combat in the units they serve in already. Welcome to the modern battlefield!

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One wonders where the mental disconnect has occurred in the minds of politicians and activists. Don't they want their country (i.e. them) to be protected properly in case of war? Don't they realize that a weak army is a weak country? Why do they insist on including any but the best recruits for that position?

 

I wonder whether it could be an offshoot of the one-world mentality that has indoctrinated so many...

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I never served in the Army or Marines, but I did serve in the Air Force, yet I can fully understand that women are not to go into combat. All I need to understand that is to read & study my Bible.

 

And any saved person can do the same.

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I never served in the Army or Marines, but I did serve in the Air Force, yet I can fully understand that women are not to go into combat. All I need to understand that is to read & study my Bible.

 

And any saved person can do the same.

So you are suggesting that if a person thinks women can fight in combat they are not saved?

 

Jerry, do you have a problem with women generals, colonels, majors and such training sending men into battle? You got to be all in or all out on this. It' discriminatory towards men if you don't have women also in combat.

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Saw this coming.

 

Im an Infantryman: 11B (eleven Bravo). I served in the 24th infantry Div. during the first gulf war, 2battalion/7th infantry regiment "Cottonbailers!"

 

From my personal 6 years experience in the Army Infantry I could have told you that women will never be effective in combat infantry. In the Infantry our loads that we carry are heavier than other branches and our work is harder. It has to be by nature of serving and surviving on the front lines of battle.  

 

Someday when I have more time I'll tell you about the time we had to mock a plane crash and play injured so the medics can practice on us. The part about 4 young ladies lifting me out of an ambulance is still painful to me.

 

Unless you have served in the Army or marines, then you'll never fully understand the full issue.  

 

Woman generals do not serve as division commanders and do not lead in combat units.

 

Does anyone remember back in the late 90's when the Virginia military institute was forced by court order to allow a female in? She failed miserably. She was looked at as a woman's rights hero only to end up proving what the rest of us knew all along.

 

All things being equal, they are not equal. Just to serve in the armed forces, men and women have different standards to meet. Just google the Army PT standards for pushups sit ups and the 2 mile run and you'll see the difference in the genders.  

 

By the way, in case you haven't been paying attention to the news the last few years, women are already seeing combat in the units they serve in already. Welcome to the modern battlefield!

The Vikings and Celts had women in combat fighting along side the men.

The Russians used women in combat during WWII and they were effective. The Jews use them today.  I believe most nations today use them. It's not a question of whether a woman can fight in combat. They can. The question is do we want our women to be turned into hardened dogfaces. If they do this then the women should have to sign up for Selective Service just like the men do. It's only fair.

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With women and open homosexuals in combat, it discourages others who want to serve from signing up (or re-signing).  Women are actually much more vicious (not stronger or faster - just more vicious) then men when fighting - but do Christians really want to see women turned into crazed fighting machines?  And then come home to "nurture" their kids?

 

I don't think women belong in the military at all.  If they are in, they should be restricted to clerical duties and other non-fighting areas.  And, no, I don't think women belong as generals, etc.  Nor do they, for ANY reason, belong in combat.

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So you are suggesting that if a person thinks women can fight in combat they are not saved?

 

Jerry, do you have a problem with women generals, colonels, majors and such training sending men into battle? You got to be all in or all out on this. It' discriminatory towards men if you don't have women also in combat.

 

I have a problem with anything that is outside of the text of the Bible, I'm just not a political correct person, & I try as I can not to be a worldly person.

 

I firmly believe that a person can be whatever God desires them to be, & God has a role for both men & women, yet many there be that do not heed it.

 

Why would a Christian male send his mother, wife, daughters, or even his grand daughters off to war to fight for him?

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I have a problem with anything that is outside of the text of the Bible, I'm just not a political correct person, & I try as I can not to be a worldly person.

 

I firmly believe that a person can be whatever God desires them to be, & God has a role for both men & women, yet many there be that do not heed it.

 

Why would a Christian male send his mother, wife, daughters, or even his grand daughters off to war to fight for him?

Which raises a good point. Why do so many Christian parents send their daughters off to the military with their blessings?

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Again, coming from someone who has served in the Army Infantry, The loads I've had to carry and jobs I've had to do MOST women wouldn't be able to nor would they really want to.

 

And as of this moment, we do not have any women in command of any combat unit at all! Could it happen? Not likely, not from what I've been seeing of the women even trying to join the combat arms.

 

 Yes the Vikings and others had women doing some fighting. We still have women in our Army that see combat just doing some supply  job or as an MP. Some have even been taken hostage. The women serving in the Israeli Defense Force can and do serve on their front lines, and for them, the front lines are right outside their doors sometimes. The big difference is that they are required by law to serve 2 years in the IDF. They may stay on after their 2 years or go back to being what they were or want to be. Given that they grow up seeing the mid east unrest on their doorsteps its not a big transition for them. Praise God we don't have to deal with that here.......

 

I think A Song of Degrees has a point about do we want women in combat being rock hard grunts? If they can they can do the job at the same level as the men, then let them try.

 

Just look up what the requirements are for the Army's Physical fitness test is, then look up what it takes to be Airborne. They are different than what the men must do.

 

Once you get that point in you head, try looking up what it takes to be an Army Ranger! 90% of the men get washed out. Then look at the Special Forces qualifications. Even worse.

 

If a woman can pass at the same level as a man then let them do so.  Most could not pass just what it takes to be in the Infantry let alone Rangers/Special Forces.

 

Can/should women serve in the military? I have no problem with them serving in the jobs they already do, but not in the combat arms. We already have to lower standards just to let them serve, so allowing them in the combat arms would meen lowering a lot more standards. Not good.

 

 

Dr. Roberson

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Which raises a good point. Why do so many Christian parents send their daughters off to the military with their blessings?

 

Probably there's many reason. These are reasons I can think of quickly.

 

1. They know no better

2. They have not studied their Bible as they should

3. Failure of Sunday school teachers

4. Failure of pastor

5. About 3 & 4, the pastor may have preached it, the teacher may have taught it, but they paid no attention

6. They may think they know more about this than God

7. There is a false teaching church

 

Its quite common for today's professing Christina not to know the role of both men & women that God has for them. And of course the world, public schools, teaches people that they can be anything they want to be. Which is a lie.

 

For instants.

 

The young boy who grows to the height of 5' 7" cannot be an NBA basketball all star. The young boy who grows to a height of 5' 5" cannot be a quarterback on an NFL football team. There's many more examples I could use to prove that public schools lie about this to every student, but this is enough to prove the point.

 

With that said the young man or woman can become whatever God wants them to be, yet many do not like what God chooses for them.

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Which raises a good point. Why do so many Christian parents send their daughters off to the military with their blessings?

 

I can answer that! Job training and College money!

 

the 2 biggest reasons why people join. those that join because of war make up a very small percentage. Family tradition is another reason, but far distant from the first two.

 

There's also a nice fat sign on bonus for certain critical jobs. As much as $10,000 just to join! They get half after graduating basic training and the rest broken down over time. Tell me that doesn't sweeten the pot!

 

Most people know that women don't serve in front line units so they feel safer about sending little Jane into the military. There is also a very strong patriotic bone among most Bible believing Christians that helps give them a little push too.

 

Dr. Roberson

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I can answer that! Job training and College money!

 

the 2 biggest reasons why people join. those that join because of war make up a very small percentage. Family tradition is another reason, but far distant from the first two.

 

There's also a nice fat sign on bonus for certain critical jobs. As much as $10,000 just to join! They get half after graduating basic training and the rest broken down over time. Tell me that doesn't sweeten the pot!

 

Most people know that women don't serve in front line units so they feel safer about sending little Jane into the military. There is also a very strong patriotic bone among most Bible believing Christians that helps give them a little push too.

 

Dr. Roberson

All wordly reasons to send their daughter into the military.

 

I love my daughter too much to even consider her in the military.

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The Russians used women in combat during WWII and they were effective. 

 

Our culture used to, a Christian culture should highly value women.  They are too well thought of to go through the horrors and rigors of combat.

 

Communists do not place a special value on women, other than for sex and use for propaganda in military roles.  Those Commie women slept with many men to satisfy the urges of the men, it was their patriotic duty to do so.  

 

Most women do not hold themselves in high regard anymore either.  That's why it's easy to send their daughter's off to war.  Look at how they dress and let men use their bodies as playgrounds all under the guise of being "liberated".

 

As for the OP, the services will further dumb down the standards and somehow make it so they won't have to haul a rucksack as heavily laden as a man's.  My ruck would sometimes easily weigh 80lbs in addition to my other web gear and ammo, my daughter's can barely move it on the ground, let alone shoulder it and take off on a twenty mile march through a swamp.

 

No, our women are too valuable to be thought of and used that way.

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Again, coming from someone who has served in the Army Infantry, The loads I've had to carry and jobs I've had to do MOST women wouldn't be able to nor would they really want to.

 

And as of this moment, we do not have any women in command of any combat unit at all! Could it happen? Not likely, not from what I've been seeing of the women even trying to join the combat arms.

 

 Yes the Vikings and others had women doing some fighting. We still have women in our Army that see combat just doing some supply  job or as an MP. Some have even been taken hostage. The women serving in the Israeli Defense Force can and do serve on their front lines, and for them, the front lines are right outside their doors sometimes. The big difference is that they are required by law to serve 2 years in the IDF. They may stay on after their 2 years or go back to being what they were or want to be. Given that they grow up seeing the mid east unrest on their doorsteps its not a big transition for them. Praise God we don't have to deal with that here.......

 

I think A Song of Degrees has a point about do we want women in combat being rock hard grunts? If they can they can do the job at the same level as the men, then let them try.

 

Just look up what the requirements are for the Army's Physical fitness test is, then look up what it takes to be Airborne. They are different than what the men must do.

 

Once you get that point in you head, try looking up what it takes to be an Army Ranger! 90% of the men get washed out. Then look at the Special Forces qualifications. Even worse.

 

If a woman can pass at the same level as a man then let them do so.  Most could not pass just what it takes to be in the Infantry let alone Rangers/Special Forces.

 

Can/should women serve in the military? I have no problem with them serving in the jobs they already do, but not in the combat arms. We already have to lower standards just to let them serve, so allowing them in the combat arms would meen lowering a lot more standards. Not good.

 

 

Dr. Roberson

Ahem...(cough..cough...) about that "if you've never served in the Army or Marines" bit.  :boxing:  :nuts:

 

The women that serve in the IDF are automatically drafted at 18, but there are a few roles that they won't allow them to participate in which generally isn't reported in the media for PR reasons. Israel is pretty liberal so these policies are not a shocker. As far as I know there are very few to possibly no women in the Sayeret Matkal or the Shayetet 13 (the "SEALs" of the Israeli sf)

 

 

We covered this topic in another thread...

 

"I don't know why a woman would even want to be in combat. 

No offense against women, but there are just certain ways that a man's body is built that are more suitable for war.

 

*Upper body strength is important when you need to crawl, and men have much faster reflexes.

*Women think with 2 sides of the brain at once, and in combat, that's not a good thing. In combat, you have to be able to react often by reflex and intuition with a one track mind. Women have a harder time processing information in stressful situations one event at a time with a goal of getting the task done. It makes them better at personal life, and with multi-tasking at home, but on the field it can get your fellow soldiers killed.

*When there is a wounded soldier, you need to be able to drag them to safety and quickly, and then recompose without being worn out from the drag.

*Woman's bodies are not designed to lift heavy objects repeatedly and for extended periods of time.

*Women don't handle pain as well as men do. You have to be able to have that one track mind when you get wounded, especially if you are bleeding badly, you can't panic and have to be able to keep pushing even when it hurts.

 

The science on all this is irrefutable, so don't know why they are pushing for it. And those of us that have been there know the differences, and the women that we knew in the military agreed with us, glad it was us and not them.

 

***

That brings up another issue I forgot to list. Women are a HUGE liability in combat if they get captured. Not only WILL they get raped as a form of torture, but they are easier to "break" under interrogation than men are. This is one of the MAIN reasons nobody in special forces wants women in there because special forces are trained to mentally prepare for torture and pass lie-detectors because we carry a lot of sensitive information. They always say there's 3 forms of communication: telephone, telegraph, and tell-a-woman.  LOL  :) but in combat you can not afford to have a woman captured and tortured for information.

 

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Dr. James, I did cover the ladies in the IDF in my second paragraph that you quoted. By law, EVERYBODY serves in the IDF at age 18.

 

About being in special units, it does  not surprise me that they are not allowed in them.

 

I do like all the other points you posted.

 

and Swathdiver, sounds like you and I might have stomped in the same swamps and mud!

 

 

Dr. Roberson

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I am a vet and do agree that women should not be in combat (or even on ships). However, not to sound feminazi-  women (even Christian) should be able to join any branch they prefer. Of course a Christian -male or female- needs to make sure it is God's Will first. Karen  

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I find it funny that if you are a Christian and you point out that men and women are different you get called a male chauvinist, but certain "experts" can say it and.people agree.

There is a bloke who wrote a book called "Women are from.Venus - men are from mars."
Now he is a "body language expert", a psychologist, and an evolutionist - do I certainly don't recommend his stuff - but his points on the.differences are obvious and true. And he gets away with saying it........

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I find it funny that if you are a Christian and you point out that men and women are different you get called a male chauvinist, but certain "experts" can say it and.people agree.

There is a bloke who wrote a book called "Women are from.Venus - men are from mars."
Now he is a "body language expert", a psychologist, and an evolutionist - do I certainly don't recommend his stuff - but his points on the.differences are obvious and true. And he gets away with saying it........

Our pastor has pointed out this contradiction before when he's been preaching on verses which deal with the differences and roles of men and women from Scripture. The world loves its double standards and any opportunity to attack those "mean-spirited Christians" won't be passed up.

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I find it funny that if you are a Christian and you point out that men and women are different you get called a male chauvinist, but certain "experts" can say it and.people agree.

There is a bloke who wrote a book called "Women are from.Venus - men are from mars."
Now he is a "body language expert", a psychologist, and an evolutionist - do I certainly don't recommend his stuff - but his points on the.differences are obvious and true. And he gets away with saying it........

 

We have many women in churches across this country that do not care anything about the role that God wants them in, many of them would probably love the book you mentioned. I've heard of that book but never read it. 

 

And its true, the world sees us as chauvinist.

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