Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Kitagrl

Neanderthal Hybrid Found!

Recommended Posts

You don't think maybe God did it because he knew what was going to happen?
Or that he modified the earth after the fall, to accommodate it maybe?
I don't know - the creation account doesn't include that detail.
It does say that as far as God was concerned His creation was "very good" at the end of the creation account. Personally, I find it very, very difficult to accept the idea that God would think His creation "very good" if even a part of His creation were at that stage tainted with sin.
And angels are created beings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't think maybe God did it because he knew what was going to happen?
Or that he modified the earth after the fall, to accommodate it maybe?
I don't know - the creation account doesn't include that detail.
It does say that as far as God was concerned His creation was "very good" at the end of the creation account. Personally, I find it very, very difficult to accept the idea that God would think His creation "very good" if even a part of His creation were at that stage tainted with sin.
And angels are created beings.

Obviously, if these details were important for us to know, God would have told us. However, God determined to give us what he did and it all fits into one Book. There are a myriad of things God didn't put in that book, but what He did put there is for our good and is all we need to know Him and to live for Him as He has called us to.

 

Until we get a firm grasp upon the material He did give us and we actually live in accord with the Word of God, we shouldn't be using up our time in endless speculation, forming theories of things God deemed unneccesary for us to know. We need to be redeeming the time, for it's short, and get about the things God has called us to be about, from pursuing personal holiness to spreading the Gospel and making disciples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bottemless pit and lake of fire are in the center of the earth.

 

Revelation 9:1-2

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

 

2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

The lake of fire can't be in the center of the earth, because the heavens and the earth will be done away with just before the last judgment, yet they will be cast INTO the lake of fire. Unless its just being held there until that time.

 

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them...And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev 20:11, 14, 15)

 

And the bottomless pit is not necessarily the lake of fire, as Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit just prior to the milennial reign of Christ, (Rev 20:1,2),  but not into the lake of fire until the last judgment.  

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Rev. 20:10)

 

Two different places, since the lake of fire continues after the first earth is gone. Apparently in a completely different place of its own existence.  Besides, why would the Bible refer to it as 'bottomless pit' twice, and 'lake of fire' twice in the same chapter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the clearest passages that absolutely rules out a "gap" is Exodus 20:11. There just is no reasonable way to get around that passage and squeeze a gap in somewhere. It says "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is". That is pretty definite. No gap between genesis one and two. Only way you can get there is if you somehow twist this passage into meaning something other than the clear meaning by trying to re-define the meaning of "made" or something. That is no different than those who try to turn the word "day" into indefinite periods of time rather than a literal day as the scriptures clearly indicate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Made"

The Bible says that God 
"created" the earth "in the beginning". Then here, it says he 'made" it. Things that are different are not the same.

Genesis 2:3 says ........his work which God created and "made." My understanding of "create" is to bring something into being from nothing, but to "make" something is to manufacture or "form" something from something which already exists....like God "formed" man from the dust of the ground.

 

"Is"

I can assuredly tell you that all the critters that "is" right now, God "made" in those six days because the Bible says so. But there "is" no dinosaurs. I have often wondered if the dinos could have been the earthly forms of the "angels" which God cast out of Heaven when Lucifer sinned, but all I can do is speculate with such a far-fetched notion because the Bible does not say. The only thing we know for sure is that they were here but they aren't any more and they could not have been on the ark because we have non fossilized skeletons of practically every critter alive today dating back to the dawn of civilization but no dinosaurs...zero.  Somebody tell me, where in the Bible does it tell us to build "creation museums" to try to prove that the Word of God is true. And how helpful to the cause of Christ is it to resort to including dubious "proofs" like "Nessie", "Mokele Mbembe", Paluxy man tracks or the dragon from Beowulf in a creation museum?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arguing that dinos were somehow some form of angelic creature is legitimate though?

Your argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
There is no reason to treat dinos any different to any other creature that God made.

As to create/made.... I believe God created matter, then made everything from that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, it's amazing; how you can simply and clearly DISMISS your own thought as INVALID, but SOMEBODY is sure to attack it as an "argument".Really Dave? 

 I have often wondered if the dinos could have been the earthly forms of the "angels" which God cast out of Heaven when Lucifer sinned, but all I can do is speculate with such a far-fetched notion because the Bible does not say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody seemed to reply to my comment about the Wooly Mammoths, which was the "elephant" form of a "dinosaur" back then.. Mammoths and dinosaurs were contemporaries, and I don't know my evolution too well, but I would think even they would agree with that, at least with some species.   

 

Dinosaurs were fossilized due to the flood.   I firmly believe the last few survivors were still living in Job's day due to passages we all know in that book.   I don't know which ones died off and when, or how long it took...but I believe Noah took young versions of the largest animals on the ark with him.

 

I definitely disagree with the idea that dinosaurs were angels.   There is not one supernatural being that lived and died in an earthly body that actually left bones behind.  Not one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The lake of fire can't be in the center of the earth, because the heavens and the earth will be done away with just before the last judgment, yet they will be cast INTO the lake of fire. Unless its just being held there until that time.

 

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them...And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev 20:11, 14, 15)

 

And the bottomless pit is not necessarily the lake of fire, as Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit just prior to the milennial reign of Christ, (Rev 20:1,2),  but not into the lake of fire until the last judgment.  

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Rev. 20:10)

 

Two different places, since the lake of fire continues after the first earth is gone. Apparently in a completely different place of its own existence.  Besides, why would the Bible refer to it as 'bottomless pit' twice, and 'lake of fire' twice in the same chapter?

Hell is within the earth.

 

Hell is inside the earth where a person could dig into hell if it were possible.

 

Amos 9:1-2

1 I saw the LORD standing upon the altar: and he said, Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake: and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword: he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered.

 

2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:

 

Isaiah 14:9

9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, it's amazing; how you can simply and clearly DISMISS your own thought as INVALID, but SOMEBODY is sure to attack it as an "argument".Really Dave? 

 

Not trying to piel on. The fallen angels are chained.

 

Jude 1:6

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hell is temporary...the Lake of Fire, made for Satan, is eternal.  Hell is in the earth.  At the end of time, death and hell are cast into the Lake of Fire and the earth is destroyed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody seemed to reply to my comment about the Wooly Mammoths, which was the "elephant" form of a "dinosaur" back then.. Mammoths and dinosaurs were contemporaries, and I don't know my evolution too well, but I would think even they would agree with that, at least with some species.   

 

Dinosaurs were fossilized due to the flood.   I firmly believe the last few survivors were still living in Job's day due to passages we all know in that book.   I don't know which ones died off and when, or how long it took...but I believe Noah took young versions of the largest animals on the ark with him.

 

I definitely disagree with the idea that dinosaurs were angels.   There is not one supernatural being that lived and died in an earthly body that actually left bones behind.  Not one.

They are still finding whole Woolly Mammoths in Siberia with not only nonfossilized bone, but flesh, skin, hair, internal organs etc. No dinos have ever been found like that to my knowledge. And a woolly mammoth was simply a hairy type of elephant which most likely could interbreed with the ones we have today(if one was alive); not a giant lizard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not trying to piel on. The fallen angels are chained.

 

Jude 1:6

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Yes, your're right; that would seem to eliminate that possibility for sure. Thanks for pointing that out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hell is within the earth.

 

Hell is inside the earth where a person could dig into hell if it were possible.

 

Amos 9:1-2

1 I saw the LORD standing upon the altar: and he said, Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake: and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword: he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered.

 

2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:

 

Isaiah 14:9

9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations

HOwever, hell is NOT the lake of fire-they will be removed from hell and cast INTO the lake of fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are still finding whole Woolly Mammoths in Siberia with not only nonfossilized bone, but flesh, skin, hair, internal organs etc. No dinos have ever been found like that to my knowledge. And a woolly mammoth was simply a hairy type of elephant which most likely could interbreed with the ones we have today(if one was alive); not a giant lizard.

 

Mammoths were only preserved because they lived at the poles and then were instantaneously deep-frozen during the flood.   Just because dinos were not deep frozen does not mean they did not live during the same time period.   I mean, there are tons of animals even still alive today that were not found deep frozen like Mammoths were.  Did God create new animals after the flood?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Made"

The Bible says that God 
"created" the earth "in the beginning". Then here, it says he 'made" it. Things that are different are not the same.

Genesis 2:3 says ........his work which God created and "made." My understanding of "create" is to bring something into being from nothing, but to "make" something is to manufacture or "form" something from something which already exists....like God "formed" man from the dust of the ground.

 

"Is"

I can assuredly tell you that all the critters that "is" right now, God "made" in those six days because the Bible says so. But there "is" no dinosaurs. I have often wondered if the dinos could have been the earthly forms of the "angels" which God cast out of Heaven when Lucifer sinned, but all I can do is speculate with such a far-fetched notion because the Bible does not say. The only thing we know for sure is that they were here but they aren't any more and they could not have been on the ark because we have non fossilized skeletons of practically every critter alive today dating back to the dawn of civilization but no dinosaurs...zero.  Somebody tell me, where in the Bible does it tell us to build "creation museums" to try to prove that the Word of God is true. And how helpful to the cause of Christ is it to resort to including dubious "proofs" like "Nessie", "Mokele Mbembe", Paluxy man tracks or the dragon from Beowulf in a creation museum?

Regardless of whether created and made are different, the Bible says that All that God created AND made, He did in six days. If He only 'CREATED" at the vyer beginning, from nothing, then MADE everything else from it, it still can't account for billions of years of Lucifer's reign, etc, between the creation of day 1 and the other days. ALL He created AND made in 6 days. And rested the seventhfrom all He created and made. No wiggle room.

 

As well, all the heavenly bodies, moon, stars, sun, planets, etc, He must have created from nothing, because on the first day, He only  created the heaven, (singular, the space to put things), and the earth-not enough stuff to make everything else out of, to make billions of stars, the moon, eight more planets, the sun. Must have been more creation going on, yet the Bible says He made those things.

Edited by Ukulelemike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, it's amazing; how you can simply and clearly DISMISS your own thought as INVALID, but SOMEBODY is sure to attack it as an "argument".Really Dave?


"argument" as in opposing thought - like in a debate....... Not as in yelling at each other.
I was not intending on being aggressive and I am sorry you saw it that way.
Your thought then, doesn't make much sense to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hell is temporary...the Lake of Fire, made for Satan, is eternal.  Hell is in the earth.  At the end of time, death and hell are cast into the Lake of Fire and the earth is destroyed.

I know many people believe the earth will be totaly gone but only the surface will be burned.

 

Psalms 78:69-70

69 And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.

 70 He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know many people believe the earth will be totaly gone but only the surface will be burned.

 

Psalms 78:69-70

69 And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.

 70 He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:

 

Interesting.

 

Well somehow it has to work out with Revelation 21 where it says the first heaven and first earth will pass away, which to me sort of nixes the gap theory....

 

How would you explain "death and hell" being cast into the Lake of Fire?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know many people believe the earth will be totaly gone but only the surface will be burned.

 

Psalms 78:69-70

69 And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.

 70 He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2Pet 3:10-13  

 

Notice the descriptive words here: "Pass Away", 'Melt (twice)", "Burned Up", 'Dissolved" (twice).

 

We also see there will be a "new earth", New, as in:

a) as respects form

1) recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn

B) as respects substance

1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of.

 

Revelation also says there will be a new earth-same thing.   This cannot be just a burned, rebuilt earth, because then it would be called a new 'world', as in, the world before the flood was the old world, after the flood was the new world, because they were both on the same earth. this is referring to a whole new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

So basically, we can't take a single verse, and make it the rule when nurerous other verses clearly disagree with that premise. The single must be defined according to the clearer, more numerous references. .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting.

 

Well somehow it has to work out with Revelation 21 where it says the first heaven and first earth will pass away, which to me sort of nixes the gap theory....

 

How would you explain "death and hell" being cast into the Lake of Fire?

 

Hell is where the richman's spirit Luke 16;19-31 is waiting for the great white throne judgment and death is where his body is waiting.

All sinners will be resurrected body and soul to bow before Jesus. Each will be judged and cast into the part of the lake of fire that they deserve.

 

When the devil leads man's last revolt against the saints in Jerusalem God will send down fire on them not the earth.

Edited by Eric Stahl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hell is where the richman's spirit Luke 16;19-31 is waiting for the great white throne judgment and death is where his body is waiting.

All sinners will be resurrected body and soul to bow before Jesus. Each will be judged and cast into the part of the lake of fire that they deserve.

 

When the devil leads man's last revolt against the saints in Jerusalem God will send down fire on them not the earth.

True, but at the GWT judgment, the heavens and earth will have passed away-all that will exist are the place of judgment and the lake of fire-all else will be recreated-the heavens and the earth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True, but at the GWT judgment, the heavens and earth will have passed away-all that will exist are the place of judgment and the lake of fire-all else will be recreated-the heavens and the earth

The Future Glory of Israel

Isaiah 60     (Second coming of Jesus)

1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

 

(Begining of 1000 year regin of Christ)

 

3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

4Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.

7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.

8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?

9 Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.

10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.

11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

 

(The Gentiles will rebuild Israel in the kingdom age)

 

12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

13 The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.

14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee; The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

15 Whereas thou has been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.

16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

17 For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.

18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

 

New Heavens and a New Earth     (Jesus will remake the earth so people can live on the original earth)     Isaiah 65

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

 

(Still death in the kingdom age)

20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for

 

((Still sin in the kingdom age)

 

the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

 23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the

 

( There will be offspring born in the kingdom age)

 

LORD, and their offspring with them.

24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   2 Members, 0 Anonymous, 36 Guests (See full list)

×
×
  • Create New...