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DaveW

Honesty?

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I am not pointing at anyone in particular with this.

Is it honest for somone who is not a member of an independent fundamental Baptist church, to maintain access to this section?

I am not asking whether or not they should be allowed in here, but whether it is right from their side to maintain access even though they are not really "qualified" if you will.

I am not even questioning the validity of their contributions.

It is simply that this area of the website is set aside specifically for Independent Fundamental Baptists.
If someone is not one, but has somehow gained access, is it really honouring to God for them to even pop in and read - sort of like reading someone elses mail.

Edited by DaveW

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I'm not questioning the quals - I am questioning the honesty of those who visit an area where the purpose is for IFB, when they are not.

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I'm not questioning the quals - I am questioning the honesty of those who visit an area where the purpose is for IFB, when they are not.

But how are they being dishonest when the qualifications are only that they are saved and believe the book? If they are asked whether they are IFB or not and they lie that would be a different story. Also, maybe they are considering the IFB position and want to see more.

 

I'm pretty sure BroMatt is careful with who he OK's. It took a few weeks after I applied for him to OK me. I think he probably watches the content of what you post or sees if you are a troll before okaying your application. 

Edited by ASongOfDegrees

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This is not a church, far from it, its a forum on the internet, & part of this forum is for those who are a member of an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, to say that your an Independent Fundamental Baptist & not be one, is to lie, & God hates liars.

 

 

Pr 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pr 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pr 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pr 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
 
I'm trying to remember the words Bro. Matt used when he started this section, can't remember exactly, something like this, I will use the honor system, that if someone said they are, he would take them at their word.
 
Sad to say that liars are every where.
 
I do not know if the qualifications for being in the IFB section is the same now as it was when it was 1st started, but at that time the only qualification was being a member of an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church.

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No need to pm anyone - just a discussion.

I don't know who here is and isn't - I don't go around vetting the members of this section.

Just wondering what people's opinions on this subject were.

I appreciate everyone's input.

Thanks.

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Honesty?

I was saved in an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church on May 11, 1986 on the left side of the church while making my way to the altar from about 3 pews back.I called on the Lord Jesus with a loud voice with ALL of my heart and didn't CARE who heard it. I believe I was saved in the pews before I uttered the first cry. I was then baptized and became a member of the same IFB, went on visitations, played my guitar in the jail, special music, choir, drove the church bus and was a member of the church for 26 years. One day the new pastor asked me if his son could court my daughter to which I willingly and readily consented. But I made the stipulation that the coourting be done at my home and at church. The pastor then did everything he could to manipulate me into relenting, including using a visiting evangelist to 'preach' to me about it. I confronted the evangelist privately and he went straight to the pastor. The pastor immediately had his son send a letter to my daughter, breaking up with her and telling my daughter in that letter that it was all because of "your dad". When I then confronted the pastor, the pastor put the evangelist on speaker phone and the evangelist accused me of coming to him at an earlier time to 'confront' him on something he had preached on Calvinism when I had merely shown him something i had studied and he hadn't even preached on Calvinism on that occasion. But when I answered him that I was AGAINST Calvinsim, everyone in the room could NOT deny my word on it and the evangelist started backpeddling on that. In short, he had tried to conspire with his 'preacher buddy' and then bore false withness to discredit me. What does the KJB say about the six things that the Lord doth hate, yea seven?

 

I now attend an SBC...NOT because that was what I wanted but because out of the three closest IFB churches, two are 'preacher buddies' with the lying pastor(he told me it was OK to lie in certain circumstances) and the third is a very dear man but he has TWO LIVING WIVES. But I still hold to my King James Bible and I beleive the fundamentals from beginning to end. I guess you could say I'm "Independent" too because just like some men won't have a "bishop" or "association" telling them what to do with their church I too, by the Grace of God am still the head if my home..

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I am not pointing at anyone in particular with this.

Is it honest for somone who is not a member of an independent fundamental Baptist church, to maintain access to this section?

I am not asking whether or not they should be allowed in here, but whether it is right from their side to maintain access even though they are not really "qualified" if you will.

I am not even questioning the validity of their contributions.

It is simply that this area of the website is set aside specifically for Independent Fundamental Baptists.
If someone is not one, but has somehow gained access, is it really honouring to God for them to even pop in and read - sort of like reading someone elses mail.

 

Great discussion going on here and thank you for bringing it up. I realize this was only a question and you were not implying anything. I do try and keep a close eye on some new members when they first apply to the forum, not because we have anything to hide, but rather some folks just want to stir up trouble. I could be wrong, but I do not think we have any of those members currently active here. To answer your question it really is a group for like-minded members rather than if they attend an IFB church. Some folks do not have IFB church near them, or have a IFB church that is rotten to the core. Some non-name IFB churches follow the Bible better than some IFB churches.  It is more about beliefs.

 

I believe the qualifications BroMatt has set for this section are: 

 

1) saved

 

2) believe the KJV is the inerrant word of God

 

You would let these people into your IFB church to fellowship so why not here?

 

You are correct. Now that I'm seeing this, I see that one is missing that I used to have. Do you believe in the doctrinal statement found here. http://www.onlinebaptist.com/doctrine.html

 

 

I'm pretty sure BroMatt is careful with who he OK's. It took a few weeks after I applied for him to OK me. I think he probably watches the content of what you post or sees if you are a troll before okaying your application. 

 

Most of the time it takes that long because I get busy and don't check the applications as often as I should. Sorry about that. :(

 

 

Honesty?

I was saved in an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church on May 11, 1986 on the left side of the church while making my way to the altar from about 3 pews back.I called on the Lord Jesus with a loud voice with ALL of my heart and didn't CARE who heard it. I believe I was saved in the pews before I uttered the first cry. I was then baptized and became a member of the same IFB, went on visitations, played my guitar in the jail, special music, choir, drove the church bus and was a member of the church for 26 years. One day the new pastor asked me if his son could court my daughter to which I willingly and readily consented. But I made the stipulation that the coourting be done at my home and at church. The pastor then did everything he could to manipulate me into relenting, including using a visiting evangelist to 'preach' to me about it. I confronted the evangelist privately and he went straight to the pastor. The pastor immediately had his son send a letter to my daughter, breaking up with her and telling my daughter in that letter that it was all because of "your dad". When I then confronted the pastor, the pastor put the evangelist on speaker phone and the evangelist accused me of coming to him at an earlier time to 'confront' him on something he had preached on Calvinism when I had merely shown him something i had studied and he hadn't even preached on Calvinism on that occasion. But when I answered him that I was AGAINST Calvinsim, everyone in the room could NOT deny my word on it and the evangelist started backpeddling on that. In short, he had tried to conspire with his 'preacher buddy' and then bore false withness to discredit me. What does the KJB say about the six things that the Lord doth hate, yea seven?

 

I now attend an SBC...NOT because that was what I wanted but because out of the three closest IFB churches, two are 'preacher buddies' with the lying pastor(he told me it was OK to lie in certain circumstances) and the third is a very dear man but he has TWO LIVING WIVES. But I still hold to my King James Bible and I beleive the fundamentals from beginning to end. I guess you could say I'm "Independent" too because just like some men won't have a "bishop" or "association" telling them what to do with their church I too, by the Grace of God am still the head if my home..

 

I do not know both sides of the story so I can't comment on that part, but I understand that sometimes some IFB or any other type of churches can get like that. How much better would life be if we all kept our eyes on Jesus. This forums is for like minded believers and I see no reason why you can't be part of this group.

 

Thank you all for your input.

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Great discussion going on here and thank you for bringing it up. I realize this was only a question and you were not implying anything. I do try and keep a close eye on some new members when they first apply to the forum, not because we have anything to hide, but rather some folks just want to stir up trouble. I could be wrong, but I do not think we have any of those members currently active here. To answer your question it really is a group for like-minded members rather than if they attend an IFB church. Some folks do not have IFB church near them, or have a IFB church that is rotten to the core. Some non-name IFB churches follow the Bible better than some IFB churches.  It is more about beliefs.

 

 

You are correct. Now that I'm seeing this, I see that one is missing that I used to have. Do you believe in the doctrinal statement found here. http://www.onlinebaptist.com/doctrine.html

 

 

 

Most of the time it takes that long because I get busy and don't check the applications as often as I should. Sorry about that. :(

 

 

 

I do not know both sides of the story so I can't comment on that part, but I understand that sometimes some IFB or any other type of churches can get like that. How much better would life be if we all kept our eyes on Jesus. This forums is for like minded believers and I see no reason why you can't be part of this group.

 

Thank you all for your input.

I don't blame you on that one. Keeping our eyes on Jesus is the best. But what do you do when decision time comes and after you've said "no", the other party just won't accept that answer? Was Naboth being stubborn? When this test comes again, I don't want quite the same bad experience if you know what I mean.

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The only thing I will say, or add to what Bro. Matt stated, there's some that would have a fairly good IFB Church near them, yet say its no good compare to the church they favor. We are in the days when falling away has become very popular & many are being deceived.

 

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

Edited to add this, I missed it.

 

 

Nothing wrong with a doctrinal statement, that is if its biblical, nothing wrong with a church covenant, if its biblical. Its kind of a snapshot of what the church holds to. It will help someone who may be looking for a church home understand what your church teaches. The coC is dead set against such things, but them they hate the teachings one is saved by faith alone, not of works, not of self, its a free gift.
 
Just last week the local large coC ran an add in a local newspaper saying, "Are you sure your saved by faith alone?" Come to our revival & we will prove it takes works + faith to be saved.
Edited by Jerry80871852

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It is not really about whether or not someone meets the criteria.
Day for example there was a medical website where there is a "doctors only" section.
If you are not a doctor, would it be ethical go ask for access?
If entry was granted,would it be honest then to use that access?

They may never ask you if you are a doctor - but if it was titled "doctors area", it sort of implies something doesn't it?

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The only thing I will say, or add to what Bro. Matt stated, there's some that would have a fairly good IFB Church near them, yet say its no good compare to the church they favor. We are in the days when falling away has become very popular & many are being deceived.

 

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Reminds me of the 3 tiny Methodist churches all within 7 miles of one another, all share the same minister and have for decades, yet they all reject coming together, either in one of the existing church buildings or another. They each demand to hold onto "their church" no matter how few attend, how much it limits their ability to have various church programs and projects, no matter how taxing it is on the minister to have to preach in one church early, then rush to the next one to preach again, and then on to the third church to preach yet again each Sunday.

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It is not really about whether or not someone meets the criteria.
Day for example there was a medical website where there is a "doctors only" section.
If you are not a doctor, would it be ethical go ask for access?
If entry was granted,would it be honest then to use that access?

They may never ask you if you are a doctor - but if it was titled "doctors area", it sort of implies something doesn't it?

Perhaps the wording is the main objection then. It seems the criteria here is that one considers themselves to be IFB, or at least holds to the fundamental beliefs of IFB.

 

I consider myself to be IFB, yet at the moment I don't attend an IFB church. I was baptized and discipled by an IFB pastor; spent many good years there. When we moved back here we had an IFB church very near our home. Unfortunately that church eventually closed their doors due to tiny attendance and no growth. The other IFB churches in the area had "gone soft", which helped with their attendance numbers, but I didn't want my family in one of those. After much searching I found an old-time non-denominational church (non-denom since its founding in early 1800s; not of the modern non-denom variety), with a Baptist pastor and associate pastor who both preach the whole Word of God.

 

So, while I'm not currently in an IFB church, I still consider myself IFB (technically, the IFB pastor who baptized me said in their church those they baptize are considered members for life...unless removed by church discipline, of course...so I'm still a member of that IFB church).

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See, I have no problem with that.

But at than top of the section it says " Forums for Independent Fundamental Baptist"

Now regardless as to what sort of entry requirements are officially in place, that title sort implies something.
Both yourself and heartstrings have said basically that you consider yourself to be IFB, although circumstances currently deem otherwise.

Now as I said before, I am not aware people's stands and positions on this board - apart from what they have chosen to reveal - I am not directing it at anyone in particular.
But surely, since it is so titled, to even ask for access is somewhat disingenuous.
It certainly isn't Bro Matt's wrong. How is it possible that he can be certain of someone's "eligibility"? After all, how hard is it to lie to any man, especially on a forum? So he takes people on trust.

Personally, with such a title, I would assume that anyone asking for entry, would consider themselves so entitled.

So with all of that , I would suggest that anyone who is not IFB (yourselves as explained, in stance rather than membership) who gains access to this section, does so deceitfully.

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It is not really about whether or not someone meets the criteria.
Day for example there was a medical website where there is a "doctors only" section.
If you are not a doctor, would it be ethical go ask for access?
If entry was granted,would it be honest then to use that access?

They may never ask you if you are a doctor - but if it was titled "doctors area", it sort of implies something doesn't it?

There is a section for the ministry in this forum that you need special access to.

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See, I have no problem with that.

But at than top of the section it says " Forums for Independent Fundamental Baptist"

Now regardless as to what sort of entry requirements are officially in place, that title sort implies something.
Both yourself and heartstrings have said basically that you consider yourself to be IFB, although circumstances currently deem otherwise.

Now as I said before, I am not aware people's stands and positions on this board - apart from what they have chosen to reveal - I am not directing it at anyone in particular.
But surely, since it is so titled, to even ask for access is somewhat disingenuous.
It certainly isn't Bro Matt's wrong. How is it possible that he can be certain of someone's "eligibility"? After all, how hard is it to lie to any man, especially on a forum? So he takes people on trust.

Personally, with such a title, I would assume that anyone asking for entry, would consider themselves so entitled.

So with all of that , I would suggest that anyone who is not IFB (yourselves as explained, in stance rather than membership) who gains access to this section, does so deceitfully.

It seems to me you feel that there are some folks in this forum that should be banned. Isn't that the heart of the issue?

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There is a section for the ministry in this forum that you need special access to.


There IS a special section that i have access to to it is called " Forums for Independent Fundamental Baptist".

And no i don't think there are people here currently who need to be banned - if i did i would talk to the mods.

I feel that there are people here who need to consider what honesty is.

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Now as I said before, I am not aware people's stands and positions on this board - apart from what they have chosen to reveal.

 

I have my statement of faith and doctrines I would share if this thread would let me. I think everybody should have one.

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There IS a special section that i have access to to it is called " Forums for Independent Fundamental Baptist".

And no i don't think there are people here currently who need to be banned - if i did i would talk to the mods.

I feel that there are people here who need to consider what honesty is.

I'm talking about the section for the ministry. You have to be in the ministry to access that section. You did use the analogy of "doctors only", right? Well the ministry section would be what is comparable to the doctor's only section.

 

And who isn't being honest? You seem locked on to this notion that people are being dishonest. 

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I'm talking about the section for the ministry. You have to be in the ministry to access that section. You did use the analogy of "doctors only", right? Well the ministry section would be what is comparable to the doctor's only section.

 

And who isn't being honest? You seem locked on to this notion that people are being dishonest. 

Yes, that seems to be the sticking point. It might be helpful if you (Dave) simply named those you don't think should be in this forum so we can intelligently, and hopefully rightly, discuss this.

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I have my statement of faith and doctrines I would share if this thread would let me. I think everybody should have one.


I appreciate your intention, but you seem to be missing the point.
Maybe I should have used the word integrity instead.It is really about the decision to access an area which is designated for other than you (not personally - I don't know if you are IFB or not).
Take me example from earlier - you are not a doctor. You visit a medical forum. There is a "doctors area" of the forum. When you have a look, you see it doesn't say anywhere that you must be a doctor to request access.
Is it ethical for you to request access on this instance?

I don't mean to offend anyone by this thread, but rather to get people to think about this matter of integrity and honesty.

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I appreciate your intention, but you seem to be missing the point.
Maybe I should have used the word integrity instead.It is really about the decision to access an area which is designated for other than you (not personally - I don't know if you are IFB or not).
Take me example from earlier - you are not a doctor. You visit a medical forum. There is a "doctors area" of the forum. When you have a look, you see it doesn't say anywhere that you must be a doctor to request access.
Is it ethical for you to request access on this instance?

I don't mean to offend anyone by this thread, but rather to get people to think about this matter of integrity and honesty.

No offense taken. It seems the issue is with the requirements for entry not specifically matching the name of the forum.

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